Does lineage matter to you?

Point taken jmaneyapanda. I don’t know what the answer is other than to buy from someone you trust. That’s what I did when I filled my tank with Tyree LE corals. Wait... I think they’re Tyree LE corals. Wait just a dog-gone minute here - who checked out Tyree to see if HE was the real deal. :)

Ken
 
The various opinions that are expressed in threads like this demonstrate two things:
1- There will always be a market for named corals
2- There will always be people that are un-influenced by a name or even purposely shy away from a named coral when making a purchasing decision.

This is the same reason why some people shop for clothing at Banana Republics and Nordstroms and others shop at TJMax, Ross or Marshall's. Just because there is a big name associated with it doesn't mean it is better (in some cases it's worse) but there is a perception of increased value to some and those people will happily pay more for this.

This is just human nature and the perceived value that is developed by a brand.

Think of it this way:
People tend to feel better about doing a transaction with someone that has 2,000 posts on reefcentral versus someone that has 2, but there is nothing definitive to say that your transaction with the 2,000 post person will go any smoother than the transaction with the 2 post person... could be quite the opposite.

The same applies to corals:
Most people don't feel so happy looking at a 1inch browned out danae frag in their LFS frag tank that is labeled "orange danae?", but if they get that same 1inch browned out danae frag in the mail from a well known reefer on reefcentral that assures them he cut the frag directly from his masterpeice orange danae colony just a few days ago (the same colony that has had everyone drooling over the pictures posted in the SPS forum) then chances are that person is going to be much more excited and willing to pay more.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12669737#post12669737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
But if it browns out, how do I know that it is an AWE Rouge? How do I know I didn't get the wrong coral? How do I know that I did get the wrong coral?

I agree with Jmaneypanda here. The name doesn't give you any information.
Click to expand...

If it browns out you have more important things to worry about.

Lineage is only important to me if it is expensive and I want a piece. As far as vendors go, I have only bought "designer" frags from Tyree (Reeffarmers), AtlantisAquarium, and Fragfarmer.

When I buy a collector piece from a fellow hobbyists, (I only have 3 people I buy from). It is because
A) It is usually half the cost vs. buying from the aforementioned vendors
B) I trust them.

If you are Joe Schmoe selling a $100 frag on the classifieds, I'm not going to bite. I'm willing to pay even more if it's from a trusted source and it's a piece I want.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12687695#post12687695 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JER-Z
If it browns out you have more important things to worry about.
Click to expand...

Way to totally miss the point.


If it browns out/loses color, most people say "OMG, I got a knockoff" when theres no real way to tell. It could be that they just have it in a spot that doesnt work, or their tank is in poor shape.
 
That fine and dandy. But that isn't what I consider lineage ;) A name is just a title. Lineage is where/who it comes from.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12703273#post12703273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
That fine and dandy. But that isn't what I consider lineage ;) A name is just a title. Lineage is where/who it comes from.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand, and that is my point too. If lineage is only who and where it came from from, and names dont mean anything, why are they named, instead of calling them "Genus species"? And this confirms that the only TRUE way to get a Tyree coral, is to buy it from Tyree, right? Otherwise, you have everyone and their mothers calling there coral that brand name, with no confirmation, and no justification.

It creates this upper eschelon of reefers that somehow garner the right and ability to supply a coral, based solely on THEIR name, not the livestock's identity.
 
Usually when I give a name,

I am not into naming a coral just to call it something cool. The identification I usaully present is where I got it from, hence the "lineage" not just a name.

For example, lets talk about the Your Reef Raspberry millipora. Hence, Your reef, the place I got it from. Raspberry, the color. Millipora, the species.
I really don't care if the fish stores do as its their livelyhood, but as I hobbyiest, I do not need to do it most of the time because it centers around the ego.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12703490#post12703490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
Usually when I give a name,

it is the Your Reef Raspberry millipora. Hence, Your reef, the place I got it from. Raspberry, the color. Millipora, the species.

I am not into naming a coral just to call it something cool. The identification I usaully present is where I got it from, hence the "lineage" not just a name.
Click to expand...

Yes, but here is my point. What is it when you frag it for me? Is it still "Your Reef Raspberry Millepora"? Or is it "Marko9 Raspeberry millepora"? I did not get it from "Your Reef", I got it from you. So how does lineage get shown/proved/confirmed in this case?
 
In my notes, It would be the YR raspberry millepora from Marko9.
That is where I got it from. That is why as a collector, I do not trade with people I do not trust. I know, it goes back to integrity and honor, something that is limited in our society.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12703528#post12703528 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
In my notes, It would be the YR raspberry millepora from Marko9.
That is where I got it from. That is why as a collector, I do not trade with people I do not trust. I know, it goes back to integrity and honor, something that is limited in our society.
Click to expand...
agreed, integrity is often lacking, and unfortunately, it is the only requirement to have lineage in the current system. that is why i think the system is pointless. but, that horse is WAY dead, now!:D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12703578#post12703578 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
agreed, integrity is often lacking, and unfortunately, it is the only requirement to have lineage in the current system. that is why i think the system is pointless. but, that horse is WAY dead, now!:D
Click to expand...

Agreed :D

BTW, I am into scientific names as well , especially in fish :p
 
lineage doesn't matter to me at all!!!

What matters is that the coral is a 6th, 7th generation. I know that I will be recieving a very hardy coral that will not bleach in the 1st 24 hours.

The fact is, captive propagated corals will succeed under many different parameters; even suboptimal ones.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12703638#post12703638 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SERVO

The fact is, captive propagated corals will succeed under many different parameters; even suboptimal ones.
Click to expand...

So true
 
Hope you dont mind me chipping in.

Here in the UK we are just on the fringes of people starting to name corals for profit. If you dont mind I would like to ask a couple of questions.

If one of the famous coral fraggers can get a specialist coral is it not possible for me to get the exact same coral ?. It may have been harvested somewhere and sitting right next to it was its fragmented brother ( exact dna ) which ended up in a shipment to the UK. It may not even be related but it could be the exact same species and colour.

Now if I have the exact same coral / or exact same sp and colour why cant I sell it as an Van Gough blah blah ?. Van Gough has only named the coral and fragged it, he has not bred it. So why is it wrong of me to sell it as Van Gough blah blah.

I could prove lineage ( dna ) to the Van Gough Blah blah but its still not his coral is it.

What if I was a famous fragger and I named the coral something else. What is the correct name for this coral ?. Who owns the lineage rights on the coral ?. It is exactly the same coral

Obviously thses are extremely hypothetical questions but raises a few questions about branding corals as Van Gough corals or to that point even LE.
 
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Also meant to say lineage does not matter to me other than whether its maricultured, propagated or wild caught. I try not to buy wild or frags of wild corals. I do have a small number of ( i think you call them ) maricultured corals. Corals from the sea but propagated so as not to harm the reef.

I look for colour ect but not for name.
 
I feel like Im going in circles here.:D

The question is not whether captive colors are good, desired, etc.

The question is, how do you know if it is or isn't? The ONLY functional method for this now is word of mouth and trust/integrity. How do you know the frag of coral you bought from me/your buddy/LFS/etc is actually aquacultured? And not a chopped piece that has been glued to a frag plug? How can this be confirmed? Th only answer to this right now is word of mouth and trust, which is a VERY rusty and weak link in that chain. Esp[ecially with the profiteering thats going on nowadays. Think of all the hands that coral has been in between collection in the coean and your tank. It would only take ONE of those people to be dishonest, and this entire principle in in tatters.

SERVO- I have no idea what you are trying to say. You say lineage doesnt matter, it generational history does. That is lineage. Its like your telling me apples dont matter, but apples do. ??? Please explain.
 
I believe Corals should be named by their proper ACTUAL species name.
It might not be bad to have a quality grading like an A grade is top notch color for that species and C is a less colorful version of the same species.

Under this method if I bought a grade A Tortuosa. and it browned out in my tank its grade would obviously change also.

Biggest problem is getting a standard for grading the color quality.

eins
 
Good idea Einsteins but like you say how do you grade. Grade A to one person might be Grade B to someone else.

I have a cracking LFS who has his tanks labelled as £40, £30 ect.
All same size acro's regardless of colur, species ect are £40, next size down £30 ect. He does this for all types of corals. All frags are same price regardless of colour.

I asked him the other day about this. I saw a beautiful Acro carduus in his shop for £40 ( $80 ) which I really liked. I thought about buying it but decided against it as going on holiday soon. Any way wife new how much I liked it so got the kids to buy it for fathers day. When buying it I asked why it was only £40 when judging by the other corals you could have tripled the value.
His answer was ' I buy the corals for the same price. Why would I want to deprive anyone of keeping this coral becuase I could be greedy. The hobby is for everyone. I need the custom of both the less affluent people as well as the affluent. My business will not survive if I do not have both.
He asked would I buy this coral if he asked £100. ?
My answer was no.
He stated that over the years he has learnt that if he prices a coral high, the affluent person comes in and will buy the coral and nothing else. He may see this person from time to time but will only buy the odd special coral.
If he sells it at a low price that most people can afford they will usually buy something else and as in my case knows as long as he remains genuine that he will have my business. He stated that he had what he called a large regular customer base. He stated that he probably had double that if not more than most of the other FS in the region, he believed this was down to the way he ran the business, as above.

This could be true as another LFS who graded his corals and priced accordingly has just gone out of business. Speaking to him a few months ago, I asked him why he had no cheaper corals for sale. His response was, if I dont sell these I cant afford to go out and buy the new. He told me that people did not have the money at the moment due to the credit crunch we are having. I know for a fact that he bought the corals at the same as the cheaper corals but his greed and stupidity cost him his business.

Maybe in the hard times ahead a few more businesses may well feel the pinch. ( I am not wishing this on anyone )

Best wishes to you all
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12666878#post12666878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda

I agree, dont buy a rolex out of a guys trunk. You can go to the jeweler and get a Rolex that has all the proper documentation and registration to be a genuine Rolex. Where do we go for this for a "Tyree Pink Lemonade"? Do we have to go to Tyree? Otherwise, where is the assurance that it is real? Aren't we then just "buying it our of peoples trunks", essentially? No guarantee, no paperwork, no nothing, except looking at it, and a verbal statement that "its real".
Click to expand...

The "Pink Lemonade" is a fun coral. It was first imported by Steve Tyree back when he was importing corals. Apparently, it looked pretty blah for Steve, so my buddy tubs bought it from him as a brownout special.

It colored up for John, and he sold frags to a few reefers, who happened to be great photographers (which was a very hard thing to find back then). The two most notable were mane3215 and ROBZ. Everyone who saw a pic wanted to have "The Green Acro with Pink Polyps".

John lost the colony, during a tank upgrade I think, and the only viable colony left was the colony belonging to snipersps. He sold them through ubs, and that's when the pink lemonade label got attached. As far as scientific classification goes, Your guess is as good as mine.

Back to the original question. "Is lineage important to you?" No, but it sure is fun. It's most fun when a buddy says to you, "Do you still have the blah blah I lost a few years ago?", and you say, "Ahh yeah."

Of course I'm going to charge him $500. :D
 
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