EcoTech Radion vs Aquaillumination Sol

[mcfa2403]

Recommendations for AI fixtures is one per foot (for example a 75g would "need" four fixtures) where as radion fixture covers about a two foot area and 40g (On the same 75g you would need only two fixtures) not sure how these numbers were derived since there are 42% more bulbs unless the fixture uses its bulbs more effeciently

 

[Arkayology]

I have read that the amount of red/greens in the Radion fixture are not helpful for corals/marine inverts and that they are purely for looks. I do not know much about LEDs as I have been using MH and T5HO for almost three years now. Would anyone care to comment on their views of the bulb combos/color spectrum available in the Radion?

A review of the Radion:
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/ca...radion-xr30-led-light-a-swing-and-a-miss.html

 

[rehype]

While i like the LED combo available in the radion i much prefer the LED combo available for the maxspect mazzara over the radion. If i could customize the radion to match the maxspect i think that would give me everything im looking for.

 

[rtparty]

I have read that the amount of red/greens in the Radion fixture are not helpful for corals/marine inverts and that they are purely for looks. I do not know much about LEDs as I have been using MH and T5HO for almost three years now. Would anyone care to comment on their views of the bulb combos/color spectrum available in the Radion?

A review of the Radion:
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/ca...radion-xr30-led-light-a-swing-and-a-miss.html

That blog and review seemed to be a guy that against LED technology overall.

Let me ask you this, have the Radium metal halide bulbs been successful? If so, wouldn't it seem logical that an LED fixture that has the exact same spectrum be successful as well?

Every MH and T5 bulb you are using has green and red in them. Has that stopped them from working for you?

 

[cmfowden5150]

That blog and review seemed to be a guy that against LED technology overall.

Let me ask you this, have the Radium metal halide bulbs been successful? If so, wouldn't it seem logical that an LED fixture that has the exact same spectrum be successful as well?

Every MH and T5 bulb you are using has green and red in them. Has that stopped them from working for you?

I was wondering if I was the only one that felt that way after reading that blog.

 

[Arkayology]

That blog and review seemed to be a guy that against LED technology overall.

Let me ask you this, have the Radium metal halide bulbs been successful? If so, wouldn't it seem logical that an LED fixture that has the exact same spectrum be successful as well?

Every MH and T5 bulb you are using has green and red in them. Has that stopped them from working for you?

Ya, that is what I was thinking. I am not against LEDs here. I am planning on switching over sooner or later and am trying to figure out if the Radion is what I need or not. Just getting some discussion going here.

 

[BonsaiNut]

A review of the Radion:
http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/ca...radion-xr30-led-light-a-swing-and-a-miss.html

That's not a review - it's a rant. The author has never even seen the fixture, let alone tested it. I disagree with much of his science, and many of his assumptions are just that - assumptions. There are also factual errors that I won't take the time to list here. This guy reminds me of people who "review" a movie or game before it is released - because they want to beat other people to the punch and generate web traffic for their site. It is vapor-journalism.

And btw, I have no opinion of the fixture one way or another, yet. I think to say you are writing a review without even SEEING the fixture is stupid.

 

[Eurobeaner]

I have read that the amount of red/greens in the Radion fixture are not helpful for corals/marine inverts and that they are purely for looks.

purely for looks.... isnt that what we all are going for? good looking corals? so this fixture makes your colors look better since it has MORE of the spectrum in it? man. stupid ecotech trying to make my corals look good

 

[bboudreaux]

That blog and review seemed to be a guy that against LED technology overall.

Let me ask you this, have the Radium metal halide bulbs been successful? If so, wouldn't it seem logical that an LED fixture that has the exact same spectrum be successful as well?

Every MH and T5 bulb you are using has green and red in them. Has that stopped them from working for you?

you need to look into his review of orphek. he raved about their units. just search for it on that same blog. the guy that wrote this review used pictures of nineball's 1350g masterpiece in his review of orphek.

i think what he is trying to say about the radion is that the useable spectrum for red and green is very small and that the radion misses that mark, and that the only thing radion's red and green will do is grow cyano. he also mentions that dimmable fixtures are not good for coral because the change in spectrum is stressful. he says other things but i can't remember most of it. i think he makes some valid points.

i have decided on 2 kessils over a 55g, and just add a third when i upgrade in a few months. i plan to start a thread to keep track of my corals reaction to this new lighting.

 

[Arkayology]

you need to look into his review of orphek. he raved about their units. just search for it on that same blog. the guy that wrote this review used pictures of nineball's 1350g masterpiece in his review of orphek.

Ya... he may be a little biased lol

 

[BonsaiNut]

I have read that the amount of red/greens in the Radion fixture are not helpful for corals/marine inverts and that they are purely for looks.

I think some people get confused between PAR and PUR - and the advantages of full spectrum lighting. Certainly the author of this review needs a little more science in his writing...

This article focuses solely on the benefits of lighting that occurs within the narrow spectral bands that ZOOXANTHELLAE use for photosynthesis. Note the emphasis. Corals themselves do NOT care about PAR or PUR and in fact coral pigmentation responds to radiation outside of PAR and PUR spectra. Hence the problems people have been having with "healthy" coral under high PUR that don't color up - the zooxanthellae are turbo-charged, but the coral doesn't develop pigmentation, so all you see is a tank of "brown" corals. The brown isn't the coral itself - it is all the zooxanthellae within the tissues of the coral.

So according to the author of this non-review, he would be happiest with maxxed out PUR that left him with a tank of brown critters.

And even PUR measurements are not an end-all-be-all for aquarium health. Just like there are different types of plants, there are different types of zooxanthellae - and different types of zooxanthellae respond differently to different spectral intensities - this guy's PUR charts notwithstanding.

I'm not sure when we moved from marine lighting being full spectrum - with PUR supplementation - to PUR ONLY lighting. Fact is, PUR only lighting is not optimal either for the creatures in your tank, or for your own viewing pleasure. Human vision has evolved to be most sensitive to spectra in green/yellow bands. The more light moves toward the end of visible spectra, the more difficulty humans have in discerning changes in tone and intensity. If you have a tank with PUR only lighting, be prepared to see a blue/purple tank with very little contrast or visual interest.

What good is it to have a yellow fish in your tank, if you can't see the yellow? Or the green? Or the orange?

 

[d0ughb0y]

Recommendations for AI fixtures is one per foot (for example a 75g would "need" four fixtures) where as radion fixture covers about a two foot area and 40g (On the same 75g you would need only two fixtures) not sure how these numbers were derived since there are 42% more bulbs unless the fixture uses its bulbs more effeciently

If you hang AI 12" above water level, it's coverage is 2'x2

http://support.aquaillumination.com/entries/459049-tank-recommendations

 

[gcarroll]

Greg C - since you are an LED guy, what do you think the impact will be from overdriving the white LED's on the Radion? Is it just a question of heat management? I know it makes the LED less efficient, but will it impact lumen deterioration and emitter life?

It's possible that it will impact deterioration if the heat produced is unmanageable. Ecotech engineers are pretty good at what they do. I'm sure all aspects of this light were well thought out prior to release including the fan issue. If not they will be riddled with maintenance issues. I personally never think about the logevity of LEDs as I have never had the same lighting for more than 3 years. I don't plan on it either.

 

[gcarroll]

I think some people get confused between PAR and PUR - and the advantages of full spectrum lighting. Certainly the author of this review needs a little more science in his writing...

This article focuses solely on the benefits of lighting that occurs within the narrow spectral bands that ZOOXANTHELLAE use for photosynthesis. Note the emphasis. Corals themselves do NOT care about PAR or PUR and in fact coral pigmentation responds to radiation outside of PAR and PUR spectra. Hence the problems people have been having with "healthy" coral under high PUR that don't color up - the zooxanthellae are turbo-charged, but the coral doesn't develop pigmentation, so all you see is a tank of "brown" corals. The brown isn't the coral itself - it is all the zooxanthellae within the tissues of the coral.

So according to the author of this non-review, he would be happiest with maxxed out PUR that left him with a tank of brown critters.

And even PUR measurements are not an end-all-be-all for aquarium health. Just like there are different types of plants, there are different types of zooxanthellae - and different types of zooxanthellae respond differently to different spectral intensities - this guy's PUR charts notwithstanding.

I'm not sure when we moved from marine lighting being full spectrum - with PUR supplementation - to PUR ONLY lighting. Fact is, PUR only lighting is not optimal either for the creatures in your tank, or for your own viewing pleasure. Human vision has evolved to be most sensitive to spectra in green/yellow bands. The more light moves toward the end of visible spectra, the more difficulty humans have in discerning changes in tone and intensity. If you have a tank with PUR only lighting, be prepared to see a blue/purple tank with very little contrast or visual interest.

What good is it to have a yellow fish in your tank, if you can't see the yellow? Or the green? Or the orange?

Great info there. The guy at Captive-Orphek blog could learn a lot from reading this. Did I mention he is a marine biologist?

The Ecotech is a major threat to the Orphek PR-156 no matter what kind of marketing jargon is written by Mike Maddox at Captive Orphek. Same wattage (120w), more efficient LEDs (Cree vs ?), full spectrum (RGB), lower price ($750 vs $899 for Orphek).

 

[MedRed]

That's not a review - it's a rant. The author has never even seen the fixture, let alone tested it. I disagree with much of his science, and many of his assumptions are just that - assumptions. There are also factual errors that I won't take the time to list here. This guy reminds me of people who "review" a movie or game before it is released - because they want to beat other people to the punch and generate web traffic for their site. It is vapor-journalism.

And btw, I have no opinion of the fixture one way or another, yet. I think to say you are writing a review without even SEEING the fixture is stupid.

I posted a response and rebuttal and that website won't ok it for the comment section. I tried posting it twice and even emailed them. That's pretty terrible to only ok comments that agree with your point of view.

 

[reefsafe]

That blog and review seemed to be a guy that against LED technology overall.

If you read his other threads you notice that he only like Orphek LEDS...a little digging revealed that he was a director at Orphek http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AG-I_TGu4BkgJ%3Awww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Forphek+michael+maddox+oraphek&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


and he owns the domain buyoprheklights.com

http://www.whois.net/whois/buyorpheklights.com.com

 

[MedRed]

You know what, I just read his latest posts. They are worse than the review. It's REALLY frustrating that he's able to pull a review out of his bum with nothing to support it and actively deny others the ability to disagree with what he says. What a terrible person.

 

[MedRed]

If you read his other threads you notice that he only like Orphek LEDS...a little digging revealed that he was a director at Orphek http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3AG-I_TGu4BkgJ%3Awww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Forphek+michael+maddox+oraphek&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


and he owns the domain buyoprheklights.com

http://www.whois.net/whois/buyorpheklights.com.com

That makes a LOT of sense

 

[MedRed]

OMG I just sent another email and received a response back.

My original email

I have tried leaving comments on the following thread: http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/ca...n-xr30-led-light-a-swing-and-a-miss.html#more

It is not scientifically supported. I have not had any of my comments ok'd for publishing. Please let me know if there is a reason why I've not been able to help round out this biased review.

Their response:

They haven't been posted because we don't have time to go through every single one of your comments, explain why and where you're wrong, reference our statements to publications, and post it. If a comment has a valid point of question, we'll approve it, if it contains info that's incorrect, we don't have time to deal with it. If you want to partake in an unscientific discussion, visit an aquarium forum.

Thanks,
CA Blog Staff

My Response back:

Why did you allow the other comments?

Their response:

We allow constructive comments, or comments with questions. Back-and-forth hearsay/opinion based comments are pointless. Plus, we always have a backlog of comments and only get to them once a week, so that doesn't mean your comments won't be posted, they just must be reviewed first.

Thanks,
CA Blog Staff

My Response:

You have to have read my posts and realized that they were factual. They weren't ok'd because they didn't agree with your point of view. Your entire blog post is unsupported hearsay and opinion. Your relationship with Orphek which includes your previous director status and even domain name ownership shows that this was a completely biased review. It's really terrible that you would publish slanderous journalism. I will ask ask a more reputable blog like Advanced Aquarist to include Orphek fixtures when they do their comparison with the Radions.

Their Response:

You are free to read the reviews on other blogs, they were paid quite well to say nice things.

CA Blog Staff

My Response:

I do, but I look at things objectively. Seeing information that is wrong or blatantly spun to construe a point will raise a red flag. My comments were completely constructive. There's nothing wrong with allowing the truth to be told and inviting intelligent discussion.

More from him:

As I said, the comments will be reviewed and posted at some point. The post drew dozens (of which only a few have been posted as of yet), and we only have so much (little) time to spend on the blog, as it's a hobby, nothing more/less. Plus, we're not particularly interested in debate or discussion, that's what forums are for, for the misinformed to misinform each other. I believe the issues of PUR, CRI, etc were addressed quite succinctly in the opinion piece regarding the Radion, it is quite obvious that Mike wasn't telling manufacturers to duplicate an absorption curve as half of the article focuses on CRI.

Readers are so used to seeing spins and being paid for lip service (as every single other aquarium site is receiving money from at least one manufacturer, including Advanced Aquarist) that they do not believe actual opinion. We continue to decline all sponsorship offers and have no vested interest in anything but our own company, but as marine biologists have a particular outlook on the hobby, and write about it. People are free to agree or disagree as they choose, and the hobby is very subjective and not very scientific, so there is always room for debate. As Mike says: "there are as many ways to successfully keep a reef aquarium as there are successful reef aquariums), and "it's just a hobby". We've been getting these accusations for the three years that the blog has been up, because people simply aren't used to honesty, and, speaking honestly, we don't really care. Readers are free to benefit from the wealth of information the blog has to offer, or not.

If your comments are constructive and have valid information (preferably referenced) then they should appear on the post at some point in the relatively near future. Until then, remain patient my friend.

Thank you,
CA Blog Staff

More from me:

The problem is that what was posted was misinformation and the succinct addressing of PUR and CRI are incorrect as well. Your post is of someone informed doing his best to misinform others. The spectral graph matches that of metal halide. All of the absorption points for photosynthesis are emphasized. Just because there is extra spectrum included doesn't mean that there is something wrong with it. That's exactly what is right with the Radions, they are able to produce useable light for the corals as well as display the corals for the viewers.

As you stated, your blog post is an opinion, but it uses snippets of truth to create a falsehood while purposefully ignoring the data that automatically dispels the points that were made. The post is anything but honest. All it will do is mislead the uninformed. If you were looking to drive traffic through a controversial, but inaccurate posting, you've succeeded. I would love to see you provide the same references you are requiring of others.

FYI: I posted my comments one week ago and have been trying to post again ever since. Nothing has been approved to date.

 

[rtparty]

OMG I just sent another email and received a response back.

My original email


Their response:


My Response back:

This is getting good!

The guy is a tool, no doubt about that. Orphek lighting will destroy itself because of their arrogance.