Electrician here...If you need advice or help

[bigdaddystar]

Yeah, you are correct that is are slang name....we are the surgeons of the construction industry....With good reason why we charge so much...liabilty insurance is more for electrical....everything is...I tote around about 2 to 4 thousand dollars worth of tool everywhere I go....commercial industrial its expensive renting lifts and equipment....yikes....


Those prices are pretty high though....I would have charged you about $300
maybe $400 if it was extensive....but $1200 he was trying to rob you....and that would be if you just called me up....I will give far better deals to fellow reefers.

I believe you Paul.
I had a contractor tries to charge me 1200 for just adding a 2 dedicated circuits for my tank that is 20 straight feet then another electrician came in do it for 500 for less than 2 hours of work.
So 1 k for a 200 amps upgrade is a big bargain.

You guys really charge more the a internist doctor ...
They make almost minimum wage in the beginning .
Even some long time family doctor makes only $ 60 per visit from medi -cal
Some of them even change profession because of very high malpractice insurance no wonder there is only few American doctors now.
Lol

 

[bigdaddystar]

Well here it is.....the code has changed....all plugs are suppose to be facing ground up....Why? because lets say your plug slighty falls out and something contacts both of those hot/neutral it will arc and spark and possibly catch your carpet/house on fire ( this is where AFCI breakers come in) a normal breaker may or may not trip in this instance.....Now it has not been fully adopted into code for some reason but expect to see new homes soon having it too or the code disappearing which is what I expect.

Now, Hospitals do follow it because they almost always use metal trim plates and if the screw was to come loose and contact those hots it could be disasterous....but with the ground up.....no worries....It will just hand there on the ground

This is a good reason though to replace any old receptacles that might not be hold the plug well anymore....I have seen homes that caught fire partially because of this reason.

i got another question since lanny brought up hospital grade...

on hospital installation of recpticles/outlets, they put the ground up, but in residential and commercial, i see the ground down...

what gives?

hehehe

 

[bigdaddystar]

BTW...I am in the market to purchase a 1/3 to 1/2hp chiller....so if anybody has one to sell or wants to do some electrical trade let me know....Its heating up out here in San Bernardino my tank hit 81 today

 

[bullitr]

Paul it's time to try LEDs ...

 

[johnwin84]

ill have a 1/5 pretty soon and I know the house will need some work

 

[bigdaddystar]

to small unfortunately.....I have about 260g total volume...I am probably picking up a 1/4 tomorrow...its a great deal but I am worried that wont even do it....really wanted a 1/2hp but I need one now.

 

[letsgofishin]

Well here it is.....the code has changed....all plugs are suppose to be facing ground up....Why? because lets say your plug slighty falls out and something contacts both of those hot/neutral it will arc and spark and possibly catch your carpet/house on fire ( this is where AFCI breakers come in) a normal breaker may or may not trip in this instance.....Now it has not been fully adopted into code for some reason but expect to see new homes soon having it too or the code disappearing which is what I expect.

Now, Hospitals do follow it because they almost always use metal trim plates and if the screw was to come loose and contact those hots it could be disasterous....but with the ground up.....no worries....It will just hand there on the ground

This is a good reason though to replace any old receptacles that might not be hold the plug well anymore....I have seen homes that caught fire partially because of this reason.

ahhh, metal cover plates.. never thought of that... great... as for the ground up, and change of code? which code? NEC, UBC, LACC or any other acronym i cant think of...???

how can a 'code' change be ignored and or 'not adopted' in reality? thats kinda wierd? how or when did the code change?

I had thought the ground on the 'bottom' was supposed to make surew teh last contact was to ground so that if a live conductor did fault at least there would be a 'ground' connection.. which is why the ground 'tab' is longer (and on the bottom)

I guess for whatever reason one person thinks of as being a great idea, someone else can come up with another reason for a different configuration/reason...

anyways, it's cool to see codes change/conform to new information/conditions...

thanks for the heads up/clarification... andyea, 1/4hp on your system maybe a bit weak... what is your ambient temperature and what are your current temp swings?

If you dont have an aquacontroller or RKE(L), you should get one.. being able to see the and track the data over time and all that is invaluable...it could be that your temp starts to rise just as the sun is setting and only for a few minutes, etc... and or on days where outside temps are above 90s....

that would help determine the size too...


gl

 

[bigdaddystar]

The ground is longer so its the first to make contact and to be renoved from the wall...it does not matter which way the plug is up or down...I can't remember now if it made it into the nec code or notthe idea came up and I am thinking the code stated for specifically when metal plates were to be used.....other than that it is a preference....plugs can go up down sideways any way you want to put them of course

My tank hovers at 76 and will shoot up 81 so far this year....it does take quite a while by later afternoon it reaches it highest...and yes I have an rkl

 

[EleganceMan]

I am curious why the instructions to my grounding probe say not to use with an extension cord or power strip??
Thanks

 

[RandyFolds]

I am curious why the instructions to my grounding probe say not to use with an extension cord or power strip??
Thanks

I want bigdaddystar to weigh in here, but as I try and explain to people every time it comes up, there is ONE way to set up a grounding probe, and if you do it any other way, you could be putting yourself and your home in some serious danger.

 

[EleganceMan]

Sorry if it's been explained already but if the grounding probe is for stray electricity and it's plugged into any ground they all lead to a ground what's the reasoning to it not working or the danger ??
Thanks

 

[RandyFolds]

To sum it up in one sentence, if electricity doesn't have anywhere to go, no harm no foul, but if it's provided with a path, ZAP.

 

[letsgofishin]

i have some ideas, and have heard a LOT of discussion about grounding probes, pro and con and even dangerous... but, i KNOW i wont be able to detail any of them clearly... hehehe

so, i too will let BGS chime in...

thanks for the question.. looking forward to the answers..

 

[bigdaddystar]

Honestly it probably wouldnt hurt it to be plugged into either a cord or strip...It most likely is saying that to ensure that if you plug directly into a houshold plug it is 100% grounded....most cords use smaller than 14 awg wire and the probe is probably at least 12 awg same with the strips they dont always use adequate size wires....all paths do usually lead to ground eventually....electricity will find a path...but I would plug it straight to the household plugs to ensure grounding is properly accomplished.

I am curious why the instructions to my grounding probe say not to use with an extension cord or power strip??
Thanks

 

[bigdaddystar]

now the next part....Good , Bad, Or dangerous

It could definetely be all 3....starting with the dangerous

By introdicing a grounding probe you are also inheritantly complete the electrical path....meaning if some equipment (heaters) was to break it now has a place to go...which means the water is a live grounded wire and ready to bite you....although and I dont test this regularly for good reason but I once had a heater break in my tank years ago (freshwater) while I was cleaning it...I realized it when I noticed all the fish going nuts...I just touched the water to see because I already had an idea of what was happening and I got shocked....so I am guessing that with large a scale of water it is technically grounding itself...much like the floating ground on a car...cars are grounded but not to the earth

So that might make it good to have a direct path...rather than you...but thats not really so much what they are for....Thats really where a GFCI comes in and would most likely have prevented what happened to my tank.

So in the end...with a gfci protected plug in use....which is completely different from the grounding probe...I read up on a article that spoke about the gfci fixing the stray voltage part....it wont, completely different. along with your ground probe you should be fine...Is it neccesary? not really. could it hurt to use? No.Could it help to use? Yeah. Will I go out and buy one now? Nope......lol

 

[letsgofishin]

thanks again for the info...truely appreciate it...

 

[RandyFolds]

now the next part....Good , Bad, Or dangerous

It could definetely be all 3....starting with the dangerous

By introdicing a grounding probe you are also inheritantly complete the electrical path....meaning if some equipment (heaters) was to break it now has a place to go...which means the water is a live grounded wire and ready to bite you....although and I dont test this regularly for good reason but I once had a heater break in my tank years ago (freshwater) while I was cleaning it...I realized it when I noticed all the fish going nuts...I just touched the water to see because I already had an idea of what was happening and I got shocked....so I am guessing that with large a scale of water it is technically grounding itself...much like the floating ground on a car...cars are grounded but not to the earth

So that might make it good to have a direct path...rather than you...but thats not really so much what they are for....Thats really where a GFCI comes in and would most likely have prevented what happened to my tank.

So in the end...with a gfci protected plug in use....which is completely different from the grounding probe...I read up on a article that spoke about the gfci fixing the stray voltage part....it wont, completely different. along with your ground probe you should be fine...Is it neccesary? not really. could it hurt to use? No.Could it help to use? Yeah. Will I go out and buy one now? Nope......lol

From what I gather, the only time you use a grounding probe is specifically to trip the GFCI in the event of a catastrophic equipment failure like your heater popping, as the 'floating ground' of the tank wouldn't allow the GFCI to detect it otherwise. Does that sound right?



Now to go way way back to my induced voltage from flourescent lighting...
I was at a doctor's office the other day where they had a T5 retrofit on their tank. It was all sorts of clean and I touched the water and a reflector and got a little zap. I can only imagine the office is properly grounded, as it is a commercial medical space, and it was still eliciting the same effects as I experienced in my fire-hazard and a half of a garbage house.

 

[EleganceMan]

No that is not why I would ever use a grounding probe! The reason for me is to do exactly what they are advertised as doing... Get rid of the stray voltage in the water! Just like the tank in your doctors office cleary has!
You don't want any stray voltage tripping a gfi plug on a reef tank with thousands of dollars worth of stuff that could possible die due to the power going off! Ideally it should be setup to do so for safety but 120v is not going to kill anyone even mixed with water and that's been proven on myth busters! ... Lol.. Plus any time u mix water and almost any bulb your going to get stray voltage somewhere around a saltwater tank! I have experienced theses shocks for years and nothing other than an alarming little zap in the hand happens!
But this could seem to cause problems to our tank mates since they would be getting a constant electric current going through them! Which us the need for a grounding plug!
I was just confused why the instructions say not to use in line with any ext. Cords or power strips but as previously stated it may be just to not give the user a false sense of the grinding prove working when in fact it's not due to a bad ext. Cord or powerstrip! Or even the ground in the wall outlet for that fact... Which I'm guessing is why they also include to have a licensed electrician verify everything is correct!
But a two dollar plug tester and some common sense can do the same thing in my book!
Thanks

 

[EleganceMan]

Also it's takes more than a little stray voltage to trip a gfi if i remember correctly ... Help me out here if I'm wrong electricians?? So your doctors office may be wired correctly and even on a gfi and still shock u from the light!

 

[RandyFolds]

No that is not why I would ever use a grounding probe! The reason for me is to do exactly what they are advertised as doing... Get rid of the stray voltage in the water! Just like the tank in your doctors office cleary has!
You don't want any stray voltage tripping a gfi plug on a reef tank with thousands of dollars worth of stuff that could possible die due to the power going off! Ideally it should be setup to do so for safety but 120v is not going to kill anyone even mixed with water and that's been proven on myth busters! ... Lol.. Plus any time u mix water and almost any bulb your going to get stray voltage somewhere around a saltwater tank! I have experienced theses shocks for years and nothing other than an alarming little zap in the hand happens!
But this could seem to cause problems to our tank mates since they would be getting a constant electric current going through them! Which us the need for a grounding plug!
I was just confused why the instructions say not to use in line with any ext. Cords or power strips but as previously stated it may be just to not give the user a false sense of the grinding prove working when in fact it's not due to a bad ext. Cord or powerstrip! Or even the ground in the wall outlet for that fact... Which I'm guessing is why they also include to have a licensed electrician verify everything is correct!
But a two dollar plug tester and some common sense can do the same thing in my book!
Thanks

Don't ever quote mythbusters as fact. Ever.

You are very VERY VERY mistaken on your household 120v facts...you are also off as to the function of GFCI. You should read this thread.

That 'stray voltage' that always exists is induced voltage and voltage from the motion of saltwater. Grounding it gives it potential to harm by completing the circuit and allowing it to go somewhere, perhaps through your fish. Without it, that voltage is a non-entity. You also have to understand that with that grounding probe, when that heater goes, anything in the path of least resistance is getting fried, unless you have a GFCI. Then it will trip, but not without the grounding probe, if I am correct in my understanding. Bigdaddystar???