Failed gig treatment? 2 round of Cipro or switch to another antibiotic?

[ThRoewer]

It seems with my latest blue gig the Cipro treatment didn't work.

I got it on the 10th and started treatment the same night.
During the treatment it expelled pretty much all its Zooxanthellae.

It looked ok when I stopped the treatment after the 7th dose on the 17th but it continued to expel some zoox.
It also continued a little bit contracting but otherwise looked good for a whole week.
Then, last Saturday evening when I came home it had completely messed up the water and looked pretty shriveled up, mouth open, but not really deflated. After a complete water change and tank scrubbing it looked better again.
But this evening, just two days later the water started looking milky again and the anemone looked contracted and had its mouth partially open.

It seems the initial treatment failed and the anemone it is still sick.

Is it advisable to do another round of Cipro or would it be better to switch to a different antibiotic?
All I have at hand is Septra and Amoxicillin.

Or would it be advisable to just observe for a little longer?

The last thing I want to do is risk infecting any of my other gigs that are all doing fine.

This is how it looked 4 days into the original treatment:

This is how it looked immediately after tonight's water change:

 

[Dkuhlmann]

I'd just keep the water clean and monitor for a day or three, it surely won't hurt to wait a few days. Unless of course it takes a fast nosedive. It actually doesn't look bad in the second picture. Does it still look like that second picture this morning?

 

[D-Nak]

Unfortunately, I've had the same thing happen with a few small gigs (under 5") that I've had. They respond to treatment initially, appear to recover, then relapse to the point where they simply survive, then slowly whither away. On one occasion, after Cipro and waiting a few weeks, I tried to use Septra but apparently it was too strong as the anemone quickly went downhill during treatment.

I currently have a tiny purple one that is showing the same symptoms. However, I don't think it's sick with the same ailment that infects other gigs because I have it in the same tank as a larger gig that's doing fine. In this particular case, I haven't ruled out allelopathy but the symptoms are very similar -- partial deflation, moving around the same spot, size not increasing even with feeding, lacks full tentacle extension.

 

[ThRoewer]

This morning, before the light came on it had its mouth open, but closed it as soon as the lights were on. It also got a bit bigger again. Let's see how it looks tonight.

Originally this week I was planning to move this guy to a 10 gallon tank with an under gravel filter and skimmer and pair it up with my last percula pair that doesn't have a gig or any anemone for that matter. But I put that plan on hold when it first messed up the water.
Though if it remains stable for another week I may give it a try next week. I feel anemone fish help gigs to stay clean and improver their health.
I still hope this one will pull through but I likely won't put it with my others.

My first purple gig, which was originally the smallest, is doing best and by now it almost doubled in size and has super long tentacles. It is usually more flat a flabby than all the others. I have it currently at a water depth of 8 inch with flow with flow changing between high and low every 30 minuts. It sits less than 16 inch directly under a Kessil A360N-E and it seems to like it.
It isn't overly sticky which is just fine with me. It gets fed daily which may be why it doesn't waste energy into stickiness. This one I plan to put into my new 100 gallon tank.

My second purple gig is currently held in a basket (hanging in the same tank as my first purple gig) together with another of my percula pairs. It is doing good but doesn't extend its tentacles very long. It had bleached a bit and then turned green (under blue light). It is on the periphery of the Kessil LED but still gets enough light as it sits almost direct under the surface. This one also gets fed daily but is more sticky.

My very first tan gig has finally colored up again (and turned green) and is doing fine despite just being in a 10 gallon tank (for 7 months now!). It also started regaining size since I picked up feeding it daily again. During the day when it stretches towards the light it looks like a mushroom, but at night it contracts under it's rock, just staying big enough for the percula pair to sleep in its folds.

 

[ThRoewer]

This is how it looked tonight:

It also still expelled stuff.

Because I got tired of the water changes I just added a skimmer to keep up the water quality. Let's see if that helps...

 

[OrionN]

I would try to switch antibiotic. Same antibiotic would not work. If it works it would have cure the anemone already. Best of luck

 

[ThRoewer]

Looks like the skimmer did the trick. It already looked better this morning and when I came home tonight it looked like this:

Let's see if it continues this way.

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

Big improvement, hope it continues to get healthier.

 

[ThRoewer]

Well, soon after I posted the last picture it balled-up again and stayed that way until the lights went out.
This morning it was back open large with its mouth closed, but it still started to bring its edges to the mouth which then opens as if it's eating something.
I will watch it for a few more days and if it continues like that start a second round of treatment with Septra.

 

[ThRoewer]

Since it didn't get better I started a second round of treatment Saturday night, this time with Septra.
So far I can't see any improvement: It still does the balling-up and the water still gets cloudy.
I also feel that the anemone is getting weaker, which is of no real surprise after having no food for over 3 weeks and almost no zooxanthellae left.
This one may be on it's way out

 

[ThRoewer]

Time for an update:

Second round of antibiotics, this time with Septra, is done as óf Saturday.

This is how it looked Thursday, after 5th Septra dose

Friday, after 6th Septra dose

Saturday, after 7th Septra dose and move to 10 gallon tank.

It didn't really improve during the treatment, though the contractions seem to have become less. The mouth is still open and sometimes I find white "pellets" that look like the anemone spat out some of its intestinal tissue, though it could also have been slimed up Septra particles.

In general it seems Septra doesn't dissolve as good as Cipro in saltwater, which may be a reason why it seems to be less effective. Also it seems the anemone doesn't like contact with undissolved Septra particles.

At this point I can only wait and see, though I'm not feeling too confident that it will pull through.

 

[joshky]

I think it's too far gone at this point since it didn't respond to cipro or septra, hopefully someone with more treatment experience has something for you to try. It sucks putting all of that time into treatment and watching them not respond.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

joshky, some of them just don't make it.

 

[joshky]

I know all too well, I've helped take care of and treat gigs and mags with my brother.

 

[ThRoewer]

This afternoon the water was milky again and it looked this:

It recovered a bit but is less firm. It may hold out for a while but I don't have much hope for a comeback anymore.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Well you just never know until the Fat Lady Sings!

 

[Pinkskunk]

Like someone already mentioned, smaller gigs have issue with the 250mg/10gal dosage. i have lost 2 5"gigs using this dosage. i think the dose is too strong and it actually damage the gig beyond its ability to repair itself, sort of like you have a liver failure due to overdose.

Note to anyone treating smaller gigs in the future to try half the strength.

 

[ThRoewer]

I have used double the dose, 250 mg on 5 gallon, before without issue on one of my purple gigs which was then smaller than this blue one and that one did fine and quadrupled in size in just a couple of months:

Just before treatment on June 28.:

After treatment on July 18.:

A couple of days ago:

This blue one actually never reacted to the Cipro Treatment and behaved in general different than the other sick gigs I had before.
The other two purple ones this one was together with at the store looked horrible and beyond rescue. I'm sure there are other things that can kill a gig besides bacterial disease, we simply don't know enough yet.
So I'm not sure if this was a dosage issue or if this one was simply beyond rescue from the start.

 

[Pinkskunk]

they like those clay pots? are they reef safe? did you have to pre-condition the clay pots before you put them in the tank?

 

[ThRoewer]

The clay pots are perfectly reef safe without any preparation. You just need to make sure to remove the price tags and their sticky glue.
And yes, they seem to like them a lot, especially if you create a somewhat perpendicular edge with a plate and pot shard - that seems to be what they like to put their foot. The tricky part will be to replicate this with rocks as the clay parts don't look too pleasing in a display tank...