Haddoni carpet questions and a bit of help needed

Ynotme4886

New member
Friend of mine sent me a haddoni carpet and a hosting bonded pair of blk saddles a few months ago.

Carpet started out about mid height on a bit of rocks and stayed there for a few months but I expected it to eventually move to the sand bed.

So it moved and picked a spot between 2 rock formations and it has never looked great in its new spot. Its foot is buried under a rock and has a firm grip on the glass bottom of the tank.

Its about half the size it was when it was out in the open and now likes to recede under the rock until it looks like it is going to die.

It shrunk so bad yesterday I thought it was done for.
It looked like this
p1930774.jpg


Today it is back open (opened back up last night)

Here is the tank info as of this morning.
125g reef ready with 72" outer orbit.... 3-150w 20k halides and 8 39w t-5.
Flow... 2 tunzee (660 gph) 2 korlia #2's one Korlia #3 one Korlia #4 two mag 9.5 return pumps and one mag 9.5 on a 1/3 hp chiller (3 mag 9.5 pumps total)
Tank is a mixed reef with mostly zoo's.
I only feed corals once a week with cyclopeze and the only thing I dose is baking soda for alk.

Now for the water specs
PH 8.0
calc 450
mag 1480
alk 3.77
nitrate 2
nitrite 0
ammonia 0
phos 0
salinity 1.026

I do a 25 GAL W/C every two weeks and use trop marin pro salt.

Was thinking about changing the center bulb over the carpet from the current 20k to a 10k bulb to see if its a par issue.

Any help or advice would be a big help

Thanks
 

elegance coral

They call me EC
The haddoni is probably between the rocks to escape all the flow you have in that tank. These anemones do not like alot of flow. Everything else sounds pretty good. I also like your idea of changing the 20K for a 10K.
 

JJFly

New member
It is not uncommon for carpets to shrink down when threatened or when expelling waste. Normally saddle clowns pick the waste out and the nem doesn't shrink down. My Haddoni does that regularly, once a month or so, shrinks down into the sand. Maybe the clowns upset it? Anyway, not to worry as long as it keeps feeding and it reinflates during lights on.
 

traveller7

Time to get back in?
Premium Member
Couple of concerns.

What are you feeding the anemone specifically?

With a pH that low, it could easily swing quite wide out of range between daytime highs and nighttime lows. Interesting that it "opened" at night.

Quite a bit of lighting for a captive haddoni, interesting again that it opened at night.

From the picture, that saddleback looks fairly large compared to the anemone and saddles have a reputation for abusing their hosts. Clowns calm down quite a bit at night.

Keep a log of the activity over the next few days, checking daytime high and nighttime low for the pH fluctuations, how the anemone varies with the lighting schedule and activity, etc. Let us know if a pattern emerges.

Best of luck.
 

Toddrtrex

Premium Member
Like "Elegance coral" mentioned that is a lot of flow for a Haddoni. Mine (( have 4 of them )) get really "upset" when there is too much flow.

As long as the lights aren't new (( as in you just got them a week or two ago )), I don't think that is too much light for a Haddoni to handle. 2 of mine in my 75 are under 2*250 10K + 4*54 T5 actinic (( Outer Orbit fixture )).

For now, I will try counting down on the flow, at least cut it in half, and see how it responds.
 

Ynotme4886

New member
Thanks for all the great input.

Here are a few pics before it moved to the sand.....am waiting for the wife to upload a few pics for me from this afternoon.
p1915519.jpg


p1917813.jpg


p1917827.jpg


Now on to the questions asked:

1. Feeding.....he gets 1-2 small pieces of shrimp thawed and rinsed in tank water every week to a week and a half.

2. PH.....My ph doesnt move for a lack of a better explanation. It sits at 8.0.... I run dual refugiums that are lit 24-7. The only thing that fluxes is my alk and am testing daily to get an accurate graph of how it depletes itself so I can dose accordingly.
I do have a ph meter but have not had a chance to calibrate it yet....have been working 14 days without a day off so spare time is at a minimum.
Any ideas on how to raise my PH to around 8.2-8.3 would be great

The clownfish are about 1.5in for the male and about 3.5 for the female...she is a bit of a brute....they mostly leave it alone during the day....he may roll in it once in a while and he is the one that feeds it.....at night she sleeps in it and he stays on the out side but near her.

The only thing that changed on my lighting is I blew a ballast and had to replace it. Was the end bulb so it wasnt even the one above him.

Now as for the flow in the tank.....never thought I could possibly have too much.

Here is how it is set up.

Back wall....left side and right side at mid height near the corner facing forward are a korlia #2

Back wall middle section between the 2 overflows near the top is the Korlia 4 and the korlia 3 and the return for the chiller (used to have it on a sea swirl but wont fit under the light fixture so now it feeds right to the K-4 so it mixes well

660 gph tunzes are on the side walls facing inward towards the center of the tank and they are about a 3rd of the way down from the top.

The overflow returns just go across the top of the tank towards the middle.

There is not a ton of low flow but the 2 center pumps in the middle of the back wall pump out 1200gph and 850 gph and are directed at the front glass and he is located on the sand at the bottom in the center of the tank so perhaps shutting down these 2 pumps to see if it makes a difference is an idea.

Now here are a few questions I have.

I have read that the higher k bulbs are not good for these types of anemone so can I/should I swap out the center bulb for a 14k instead of the current 20k bulb I am using and if so will it help any? I am not a big fan of the 10k bulbs.... I have a set of xm 10ks and when you put them over a tank it looks like someone dumped in yellow food dye.

Also what about coals nearby it that could be affecting it?
There is one mushroom and a few heads of pallys in the general area and the bottom in front of it is a huge colony of brown star polyps (needs to be cut back....are getting out of control)

Anyway you can see the star polyps in the new pic from this afternoon that the wife uploaded.

p1931318.jpg


Thanks so much for all your help
 

Ynotme4886

New member
another quick question.....can they be successfully kept under just t-5's?

Might be getting an extra tank from a friend and possibly could make it a species only tank for the carpet after it matures for a good 6 months at least.

Its 36 x 16 x 15 and is setup for a closed loop.
I have an 8 bulb retro t-5 setup I could use if I build a canopy for it.

So I would guess that total distance from bottom of tank to fixture would be around 20inches and it would have 312w of light.

Or should I just throw a halide on it and leave it be without a top.

Might be too small of a setup....but was worth asking
 

traveller7

Time to get back in?
Premium Member
Haddoni can make it under t5s and even 400wt halides, when they are acclimated.

It looks like the anemone is retreating from something. Since it moved and is still retreating: changes in light, flow, water conditions, and inhabitants tend to be the culprits.

I am a bit shocked the anemone stayed on the rock for any length of time. Shocked enough to have a doubt the ID, but captive specimens will toss a curve just to keep us guessing :)
 

elegance coral

They call me EC
I still think it's the flow. Mine would be doing the same thing if it were in that tank. Mine is just larger, so it would be rearranging the whole tank until I killed about half of those power heads.
 

Ynotme4886

New member
I'm gonna pull the plug on the K4 and the K3 and see what happens.

These are the 2 closest powerheads near him.

Will see if that helps any.....also should I swap out the center halide bulb from the 20k that is in there to a 14k so he gets a bit more par from the lighting?
 

Toddrtrex

Premium Member
I personally wouldn't change out the bulb just yet. If you do you wouldn't know what improved the situation, just change one thing at a time. Plus, I think this is flow related.
 

traveller7

Time to get back in?
Premium Member
If the anemone is fading in color, maybe PAR would be nice, but it is retreating. Light starved anemones reach/move toward light.
 

Ynotme4886

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15423817#post15423817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by traveller7
If the anemone is fading in color, maybe PAR would be nice, but it is retreating. Light starved anemones reach/move toward light.

Point well taken.

Well the powerheads are off but am still getting some flow down there.

Can tell by watching the star polyps move about.

Its not half as strong as it was so am gonna give it a day or two.

He is still open and didnt shrink too much last night in the dark.

Can the star polyps be annoying it as well.....they have become a bit overgrown and definitely need a trim as you can see in the pic?

Will give it a few days and see what happens.
 

Toddrtrex

Premium Member
To be honest, I would try to turn off as much flow as possible, and then slowly add more -- think that will be an easier way to find a sweet spot. That way it will, hopefully, open fully --- which would make judging the flow easier, don't want the oral disc lifted up my the flow. Once in a while is okay, but too much and you will have an unhappy Haddoni on your hands.

I would also cut back that GSP, there is a chance that they could be annoying it --- even though Haddonis have a strong sting that still could be enough to bother it. I haven't personally had GSP and a Haddoni together, but have seen GSP take out SPS before.
 

traveller7

Time to get back in?
Premium Member
My haddoni's have shrunk away from specific negative interactions with inhabitants while leaving the rest of the oral disk extended. They have ignored interactions with most zoa, star polyps, etc. with the exception of lps with sweeper tentacles. This tank had significant flow, metal halides(6500K+20K), PCs, etc. Please note the area by the clam that is pinched in, this was a spot favored by a cowrie that was eating the anemone at night:
14159Saddle_colony.JPG


This is the same anemone some time later under vastly different lighting#20K# and buffeted by multiple tunze streams #6100# lifting oral disk on more then one side per cycle:
14159mini-Cujo_is_about_to_show_the_Tusk_the_door.JPG


In my experience, it is more likely a change in the anemones ability to tolerate lighting, the clowns, or some predator#shrimp, eunice worm, cowrie, etc.) or even diet.

I have not seen flow alone produce a reaction as described for an extended period of time. Hopefully, that is all it is, but I cant shake the feeling it is more then flow.
 

Ynotme4886

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15425634#post15425634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
To be honest, I would try to turn off as much flow as possible, and then slowly add more -- think that will be an easier way to find a sweet spot. That way it will, hopefully, open fully --- which would make judging the flow easier, don't want the oral disc lifted up my the flow. Once in a while is okay, but too much and you will have an unhappy Haddoni on your hands.

I would also cut back that GSP, there is a chance that they could be annoying it --- even though Haddonis have a strong sting that still could be enough to bother it. I haven't personally had GSP and a Haddoni together, but have seen GSP take out SPS before.

I dropped the flow over 2000gph and it may have helped. There is nothing within 2 plus feet of him pushing any water in any direction.

As for the GSP it spreads out along the sand in the front of the tank and is about 3 ft long and 4-6 in wide and is starting to climb my front glass.

When I got it a year ago the GSP was about half the size of a dollar bill
 

Toddrtrex

Premium Member
Nice shots Scott.

What type of clam is/was that? My blue one wasn't bothered at all by my T. Crocea,

Haddoniclam.jpg



This thread reminded me of my tan one in my 75, about a month ago it was pulling into the sandbed/rocks, and pretty much looking like death. The other Haddoni in that tank was looking great, and the tests indicated no issues. Turns out it was getting ticked off that they clowns were always fanning away the sand. When the Haddoni in question was ticked off the clowns went over to the other Haddoni, which stopped the sand from being removed from the tan one. It is now back to its happy self.
 

Toddrtrex

Premium Member
That is a lot of flow, at least IMO, for a Haddoni.

In my 75 I am at about 2,600 and in my 58 about 1,840 per hour.
 

Ynotme4886

New member
In my experience, it is more likely a change in the anemones ability to tolerate lighting, the clowns, or some predator#shrimp, eunice worm, cowrie, etc.) or even diet.

The person I got it from a few months ago had it under 175w halides and the clowns came with the carpet and were already hosting.

I havent seen anything bothering it.... I do have some shrimp in the tank but they all avoid it like the plague.

I have 3 peppermint 1 cleaner and a coral banded. There are also a coral beauty and a flame angel in there but they have never nipped a thing....they even leave my Crocea clam alone
p1917803.jpg


As for diet I dont like to feed it a lot....and I have been using just shrimp.....I have heard tons of stories about issues with using silversides.

So if you can suggest a new food to try that would be great.

And great pics as well.....makes me hope mine will calm down and start to look like the ones you two have
 
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