Has LED surpassed Halides?

My point is shouldn't one push to make a lighting system better? As you seem to want to keep LED's at their current usefulness. The problem with flexible lighting is that you are lighting corals that are not as flexible. They evolved to expect a certain full spectrum of light. An WOW I do have a higher standard of where LED's should be nano's came about due to the market crash when people could barely keep their houses let alone an aquarium. The hobby as not bounced back to pre crash levels yet. I guess you are satisfied with what you are given and do not wish to see better LED systems on the market than what users currently have.


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I have been out of the hobby for about 4 years. I am looking at getting back into the reef life but while shopping for systems it seems the LED's have become much more prevalent and the Halide options/combo lights are dwindling. Have the LEDs finally gotten to a point where they outperform the halides in regards to coral growth and heat or are they just more desirable because of the fancy controls you have over the lights?

Metal halides are definitely better for coral growth. My experience was the same. After using Radions for over a year and then switching back to metal halides, you could tell there was a definite benefit in SPS growth especially.

LEDs have more control features. Metal halides are more plug and play.

I prefer the more natural shimmer from metal halides, the coral growth and the non issue with shadowing. Corals just respond better.

Metal halides to me are simply a better choice in lighting a reef tank.
 
1) Where did I claim or request that what "we" have now is perfect and any or all innovation should cease?

2) Actually, many corals are quite light-adaptable, but regardless, having fixtures adaptable to different aquarium usages is actually considered a good thing by most. So are you claiming that flexibility is a bad/undesirable feature?

3) Does your "higher standard" apply to MH and T5, since they too have their flaws? Hint: it is helpful to the newer hobbyists you are claiming to look out for if you point out both the positives and the negatives of a given fixture (or any other tool we use to keep corals alive in aquariums), without blanket statements backed up with spurious "facts".

4. Nanos did not come about because aquarists lacked the funds for large tanks, but because the influx of new marine aquarists had access to the accumulated knowledge of prior aquarists via the internet. Simply, the hobby evolved - remember in the 1990's (and earlier) when it was routinely suggested that no marine aquarium under 40g was advisable due to various "reasons" (heck, I still see people saying this today!)? Do you go around advising new aquarists to get the biggest aquarium they can afford to minimize "instability"? Now, for many successful hobbyist with smaller aquariums, the issue is that their corals do so well that they run out of room. Having smaller systems available actually made it easier for new hobbyist to join our ranks.

5. I am sure that everyone would like to see everything get better, but providing false narratives (i.e. LED's won't grow coral) won't make that happen.
 
Okay okay okay.

I think we should just settle this debate as it is all equal instead of trying to justify which lighting is better.

They all work. They all will grow corals. They all will color up corals. They all have their own pros/cons.

Buy what is BEST FOR YOU.
 
Okay okay okay.

I think we should just settle this debate as it is all equal instead of trying to justify which lighting is better.

They all work. They all will grow corals. They all will color up corals. They all have their own pros/cons.

Buy what is BEST FOR YOU.


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:beer:
 
Corals do love MH, but the heat can be a definite issue.

Actually I found the lack of any heat transfer to the tank caused my heater to come on a lot more than I expected while using LEDs and negated the energy savings I had anticipated. I found that to be a much bigger issue. You really don't save as much money as you think you do by running LEDs.
 
That's simply your specific company sales figures - the OP was asking if LEDs have surpassed MH "where they outperform the halides in regards to coral growth".
 
LEDs will never "work for everyone" because they are so customizable.

Isn't that an oxymoron :lol: ? I'd actually argue that the only way to have something work for (almost) everyone is by having it customizable (configurable realły). I've also argued that the sellers of LED lights ought to be clearer about beginning settings. Trouble with that, of corse, is that with all the fly-by-night sellers, they don't have the foggiest idea of what those settings are.

I agree that a large part if the problem is 'user error' and that as an established and mature tech, halides are 'safer'.

I have little doubt that LED will become the dominant form of aquarium lighting, particularly as the halide stalwarts 'retire'.
 
That's simply your specific company sales figures - the OP was asking if LEDs have surpassed MH "where they outperform the halides in regards to coral growth".

Actually, the OP asked whether LED's have surpassed MH in regards to coral growth AND heat - you seemed to forget that second variable, which is quite important to some hobbyists...

...and to dismiss a rather large companies sales results seems a bit short-sighted IMO...
 
Actually if you saw my post earlier, I talked about heat already - or the lack of heat transfer that is often over looked in regards to LEDs.

It kept my heater running a lot more than I expected and negated the savings I had anticipated. Many have had similar experiences and this is often over looked.

The OP wasn't in regards to any specific company's individual sales rather if LEDs have surpassed MH where they outperform the halides in regards to coral growth.
 
How much is a heater typically running in a given reef aquarium? While the overall wattage of the heating equipment can be substantial, the heaters are not on constantly, but cycle on and off as needed.

Most aquarists are not concerned with providing sufficient heat to their aquariums, but many are concerned with too much heat, especially in summer, hence the typical advantage enjoyed by LED fixtures not radiating heat into the aquarium.

I know what the OP asked, and it had two variables (you ignored one in your response), and Chris from CoralVue pointed out that MH sales have declined precipitously - to ignore that or say that doesn't matter is odd, as is ignoring what many aquarists have been able to do with LED lighting.
 
No matter what you choose, you will need nearly the same wattage of either for the same results. If people are happy with a 75W panel, then a 70W MH could have done the same thing. When Dr. Joshi did his speech at MACNA at 2015 his #1 takeaway is that there is no electrical savings - a tank that truly NEEDS 400W of halides will NEED 400W of panels too. Arguing that a tank NEEDS 400W of either is another topic.

IMO, heat is coming to LED panels soon. Just a people argued and were mostly proven wrong that coral don't need UV that they were getting in other light sources, IR will be the next revelation. Then, the panels will heat up your tank too.
 
BTW - I live in Colorado where humidity is regularly under 25% even in the summer months (evaporation is a very powerful thing), the heat of ANYTHING (lights and pumps) is a welcome addition since about 65% of my tank costs are to heat. Heat is easily managed IMO and not as big of a deal as most people make it unless you have a really small room or really small tank and then it is a big deal.
 
25 years selling aquarium lighting, I have the sales numbers and trends to prove it. Our MH sales are down 95% on MH since 2010.

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They were not all that great to begin with. I was, am and will be a huge supporter of MH for my SPS tanks and I was never all that thrilled with CV stuff compared to the rest of the market. There was enough of a demand that Phoenix 14K got made again after being discontinued. M80 ballasts too. This statement is pretty misleading without context.

Hamilton will show you different numbers and trends.
 
How much is a heater typically running in a given reef aquarium? While the overall wattage of the heating equipment can be substantial, the heaters are not on constantly, but cycle on and off as needed.

Most aquarists are not concerned with providing sufficient heat to their aquariums, but many are concerned with too much heat, especially in summer, hence the typical advantage enjoyed by LED fixtures not radiating heat into the aquarium.

I know what the OP asked, and it had two variables (you ignored one in your response), and Chris from CoralVue pointed out that MH sales have declined precipitously - to ignore that or say that doesn't matter is odd, as is ignoring what many aquarists have been able to do with LED lighting.


A 300 watt heater cycling on and off or staying on a lot longer really adds to the electricity. My point was simply that is often overlooked in this discussion.

The OP was asking about coral growth and heat - I replied to both in different sections. He wasn't asking about any particular companies sales.

You seem to be bothered that I replied. I am not looking to argue - just simply chime in with my opinion. Have a good new year.
 
No matter what you choose, you will need nearly the same wattage of either for the same results. If people are happy with a 75W panel, then a 70W MH could have done the same thing. When Dr. Joshi did his speech at MACNA at 2015 his #1 takeaway is that there is no electrical savings - a tank that truly NEEDS 400W of halides will NEED 400W of panels too. Arguing that a tank NEEDS 400W of either is another topic.

IMO, heat is coming to LED panels soon. Just a people argued and were mostly proven wrong that coral don't need UV that they were getting in other light sources, IR will be the next revelation. Then, the panels will heat up your tank too.

That is highly dependent on what corals are being kept as well as the dimensions of the aquarium in question. For example, I replaced 150W's of MH (Phoenix 14K) and 96W's of T5 with a single 160W LED light (Maxspect Razor), and the LED is not running at peak ever, maxing out at 75% (120W's) for 4 hours (and I prefer the color from the Maxspect). Now, the aquariums (actually 2 set up similarly) are not filled with SPS, but the numerous LPS, soft corals and anemones still need sufficient lighting (especially my S. gigantea). This is an example of the opposite of the "one size fits all" argument for MH, and you are oversimplifying the anecdotal evidence proferred by Dr. Joshi, and failing to take into account the dimensions of his system and what he is trying to keep.

Also, I highly doubt infrared heat is the secret to success with MH - that would only apply to shallow water species, since radiant heat doesn't penetrate deeper waters.

BTW - I live in Colorado where humidity is regularly under 25% even in the summer months (evaporation is a very powerful thing), the heat of ANYTHING (lights and pumps) is a welcome addition since about 65% of my tank costs are to heat. Heat is easily managed IMO and not as big of a deal as most people make it unless you have a really small room or really small tank and then it is a big deal.

OK, so we are back to anecdotal examples like mine above, but what about those in Texas or Florida? Heat is easily managed, as long as one is willing to greatly increase evaporation rates to accomplish the necessary cooling. I am not - I keep my aquariums covered to reduce evaporation, especially in the winter.

They were not all that great to begin with. I was, am and will be a huge supporter of MH for my SPS tanks and I was never all that thrilled with CV stuff compared to the rest of the market. There was enough of a demand that Phoenix 14K got made again after being discontinued. M80 ballasts too. This statement is pretty misleading without context.

Hamilton will show you different numbers and trends.

I see no need to denigrate CoralVue's offerings just to further your argument, and it isn't like Chris came into this thread stating anything outrageous, and he was far from being misleading. His company sells both, which is not something you can attribute to Hamilton, which only sells MH, except for a single fixture (that I rarely see, if ever, used). Also, I seem to recall CoralVue carrying Abyzz, Elos, Icecap, Giesemann, and Radium - not exactly considered substandard brands.

A 300 watt heater cycling on and off or staying on a lot longer really adds to the electricity. My point was simply that is often overlooked in this discussion.

The OP was asking about coral growth and heat - I replied to both in different sections. He wasn't asking about any particular companies sales.

You seem to be bothered that I replied. I am not looking to argue - just simply chime in with my opinion. Have a good new year.

I actually wasn't bothered by your responses, but just wanted to be clear as to the various points being made, which typically are cherry-picked by those wishing to make their point, not that you did so. I did feel that dismissing Chris's point was unnecessary though.

Happy New Year to you as well! :)
 
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I do love how people use the data/info/knowledge from Dr. Joshi differently depending on perspective. If it supports your argument, it is empirical fact. If not, then it is anecdotal. All that I know is that he had to replace 3x400W metal halides with the same wattage of LEDs on his same system - I was there and heard it with my own ears.

I do think that it is important to know the difference between the sale figures of really-good and so-so offerings on the market. If the figures are going to be offered, they need context. There is little that can be more important. I might use a LED system if I had to guess at which temperature my next MH bulb might come out (you could buy three bulbs from three different batches and they all looked different) or replace eBallasts ever year. The difference is just as important as a strip of .25W Chinese LEDs from eBay will not perform like a good panel will. I guess that if this is not important, then we should look at Aquarium Pharm's numbers on how people have stopped buying protein skimmers based on units sold of Skilters and SeaClones.

What is the matter with anecdotes? Isn't that all that we have to offer.
 
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