Have ICH looky here!!!!!

[mitziem]

ICH errrrrr

ICH errrrrr

OK..here is my problem now...errrr so many it seems. I posted before about high NO2 and NH3 level...using Amquel, water conditioner, ph buffer, and stress zyme. Per Waterkeeper expertise, I did about a 80% w/c.. left just enough water for fish to be in...added in water from main tank and added Amquel to neutralize the water that was left in the tank. NO2 and NH3 levels came down to almost zero....woohooo. But during the last 6days... I stopped using the coppersage even though i had only been treating tank for about 7-8 days with it. In doing different test at various points of make up water (prior to switching and using main tank water) the coppersafe is what was raising my NO2 and NH3 levels. Anyway... so I havent used the coppersafe in Qt for 6 days , but did add daily treatment of Maracyn for fin and tail rot. Once i did the almost complete w/c, sweetlips looks better, is eating much much better , skin is looking great (I'm a happy camper here let me tell you) Problem is its been 2 days since i did the alomost complete w/c and today NO2 and NH3 levels are back up to high and fish has started rubbing on bottom of tank again. Wondering if I possibly added the Ich parasite into my QT tank by using main tank water,,, its been over 3 wks since fish have been in main tank and with no copper in QT tank.. Any suggestions. Fin and tail rot has stopped at this point..doesnt appear to be getting any worse. Any suggestions??? Im thinking i really dont want to do the coppersafe treatment again and was wondering if formalin dip would be better method now... One problem is Sweetlips freaks out when trying to catch here...when she was moved to QT tank she twisted in net and got it wrapped in her gills and around her fin. HELP please !!!

 

[Aquarist007]

Re: ICH errrrrr

Re: ICH errrrrr

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14774106#post14774106 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mitziem
OK..here is my problem now...errrr so many it seems. I posted before about high NO2 and NH3 level...using Amquel, water conditioner, ph buffer, and stress zyme. Per Waterkeeper expertise, I did about a 80% w/c.. left just enough water for fish to be in...added in water from main tank and added Amquel to neutralize the water that was left in the tank. NO2 and NH3 levels came down to almost zero....woohooo. But during the last 6days... I stopped using the coppersage even though i had only been treating tank for about 7-8 days with it. In doing different test at various points of make up water (prior to switching and using main tank water) the coppersafe is what was raising my NO2 and NH3 levels. Anyway... so I havent used the coppersafe in Qt for 6 days , but did add daily treatment of Maracyn for fin and tail rot. Once i did the almost complete w/c, sweetlips looks better, is eating much much better , skin is looking great (I'm a happy camper here let me tell you) Problem is its been 2 days since i did the alomost complete w/c and today NO2 and NH3 levels are back up to high and fish has started rubbing on bottom of tank again. Wondering if I possibly added the Ich parasite into my QT tank by using main tank water,,, its been over 3 wks since fish have been in main tank and with no copper in QT tank.. Any suggestions. Fin and tail rot has stopped at this point..doesnt appear to be getting any worse. Any suggestions??? Im thinking i really dont want to do the coppersafe treatment again and was wondering if formalin dip would be better method now... One problem is Sweetlips freaks out when trying to catch here...when she was moved to QT tank she twisted in net and got it wrapped in her gills and around her fin. HELP please !!!

sweet lips and other tangs do much better with hyposalination

 

[Skinnysloth]

In regards to the hypo treatment, pH will be lower due to the dilution of salt water. Will the fish be able to adapt to the lower pH level or should a buffer, like sodium bicarbonate, be used to bring the pH level back up?

 

[192clark]

Yes Bring the Ph back up.

 

[WaterKeeper]

Bake a thin layer of the baking soda in a 350°F oven for 30 minutes and use the baked product which is now sodium carbonate (washing soda). It is better at adjusting pH but use it sparingly so as not to overshoot.

 

[pavehawk]

Why can't you do the hyposalinity method in you main tank? I can see tiny little white critters free swimming in it. Will they die off when I remove my fish or will they live on my starfish (X2)? I just don't want to treat my two fish that have ick and have it return when I put them back in. Its an 8 gallon tank with no coral.

 

[WaterKeeper]

You must have really good eyes.

You can't see the ich parasite without a low-medium powered microscope so that is something else you are seeing. Hypo will kill most invertabrates and also destroy live rock. I guess you could use it in a that small FO tank if you removed the rock and placed in in standard SW during the treatment period.

 

[pavehawk]

Well what ever it is swimming around are the size if a pin head or smaller I can see them really well on the black back wall. Will Ick live on my starfish if I remove my fish to treat them? I just don't want to go through the whole process of treating my fish only to dump them back into the tank to get infected again... In other words does ick only live on fish or is you tank infected?

 

[MotherFish]

What you are seeing are most likely small "pods", it's definitely not Ich.
The only time Ich is free-swimming is in the <18hrs after it first hatches from the cyst to find a host.
When it leaves the host after feeding it's unable to swim and drops down to the substrate to encyst and multiply starting the whole cycle again.
In both of those instances, just as WK said, you'd need a microscope to be able to see the Ich parasites. You can't see Ich with the naked eye.

To answer your other questions, Yes, you can treat your FOWLR with hypo if you desire, but this will kill all of your microscopic life (pods, worms, stars, etc.) in your sand and on your rock.
This will also kill your larger stars, shrimp, and snails.
Depending on how much die-off you have, you will probably have to use an ammonia detoxifier until the bacteria cycle catches up.

If you remove the fish and treat in a separate tank in order to keep all your inverts, stars, sand, and rock alive, you won't be able to move the fish back for 6-8 weeks to make sure that all the Ich left behind in the main tank has starved and died out.

Lastly, while Ich prefers to encyst in the sand or on the rock, it is possible for it to encyst on other animals shells/exoskeletons, so while it's unlikely, and Ich cannot feed on them, Yes, there is a chance for your starfish to be "carriers" of an unhatched cyst

 

[WaterKeeper]

To add to what MotherFish said; ich or velvet cannot feed on a starfish so once the cyst erupts it will not find a fish to act as a host (it must be a fish) and therefore will perish. Once that happens then the tank becomes devoid of either parasite and the fish can be returned.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14861806#post14861806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
To add to what MotherFish said; ich or velvet cannot feed on a starfish so once the cyst erupts it will not find a fish to act as a host (it must be a fish) and therefore will perish. Once that happens then the tank becomes devoid of either parasite and the fish can be returned.

also to add--this period of fishless should be anywhere between 4 and six weeks.

 

[WaterKeeper]

About the same time as Lent.

 

[pavehawk]

Thanks for all the info. I will remove the fish and treat that way.

 

[gamespot]

Thanks for your information,feed your fish a little is fine

 

[JoelNB]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14861938#post14861938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
also to add--this period of fishless should be anywhere between 4 and six weeks.

I've had my main tank at 78 degrees. Does this mean I should leave it closer to six weeks or should I increase the temperature and only leave it for four weeks, or am I on the wrong track?

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14893693#post14893693 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JoelNB
I've had my main tank at 78 degrees. Does this mean I should leave it closer to six weeks or should I increase the temperature and only leave it for four weeks, or am I on the wrong track?

Joel--raising the temperature does not help with marine ich.
You can leave the temperature where it is and wait the four weeks----words spoken many times by our great mentor The Water Keeper

 

[WaterKeeper]

It does speed the life cycle Scot. I'd raise it to about 82-84°F during the treatment. The faster the cysts emerge the faster you are rid of it.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14894656#post14894656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
It does speed the life cycle Scot. I'd raise it to about 82-84°F during the treatment. The faster the cysts emerge the faster you are rid of it.

okay now I am confused great mentor

 

[WaterKeeper]

The confusion is because Ichthyophthirius multifiliis the ciliate that causes FW ich is heat liable and can be eradicated by increasing tank temperature to around 89°F while our SW ciliate, Cryptocaryon irritans can tolerate that type of temperature while marine fish would tend to suffer. The thing is both parasites go through the cyst stage far faster as the temperature increases. At low temps Crypto can take over two months before the cyst erupt and release the free swimming stage where they can be successfully treated. Temperatures around 85°F shorten that period to under thee weeks so the isolation period needed are for a successful quarantine period are reduced. Slightly rasing the temperature of the hospital tank can be of assistance in combating the disease.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14895054#post14895054 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
The confusion is because Ichthyophthirius multifiliis the ciliate that causes FW ich is heat liable and can be eradicated by increasing tank temperature to around 89°F while our SW ciliate, Cryptocaryon irritans can tolerate that type of temperature while marine fish would tend to suffer. The thing is both parasites go through the cyst stage far faster as the temperature increases. At low temps Crypto can take over two months before the cyst erupt and release the free swimming stage where they can be successfully treated. Temperatures around 85°F shorten that period to under thee weeks so the isolation period needed are for a successful quarantine period are reduced. Slightly rasing the temperature of the hospital tank can be of assistance in combating the disease.

the 4 week fishless allowance-----at what temperature is that?