Hawaii passes aquarium fish collection limits

[Timfish]

The link to the 2010 report to the Legislature referenced earlier has changed to: http://files.hawaii.gov/dlnr/reports-to-the-legislature/2010/dar/DAR10-Hawaii-Fisheries-2010.pdf

 

[Maivortex]

Humble fish that is the saddest thing I have seen posted. I really want an Achilles for my new tank and this saddened me.

On the main topic though I hope Hawaii successfully implements this plan. I hate reading about dying reefs and how they have shrunk and shrunk. I would like to see them better protected. And As the list shows the captive breeds thats fairly impressive. Have the fish i want are on that list and I will be buying as many as i can that are captive bred. Anyways. Just my thoughts

There is nothing sad about that photo. Nothing wrong with people eating fish. In Hawaii, Achillies tang are eaten every day. They are yummy.

 

[HumbleFish]

Humble fish that is the saddest thing I have seen posted. I really want an Achilles for my new tank and this saddened me.

On the main topic though I hope Hawaii successfully implements this plan. I hate reading about dying reefs and how they have shrunk and shrunk. I would like to see them better protected. And As the list shows the captive breeds thats fairly impressive. Have the fish i want are on that list and I will be buying as many as i can that are captive bred. Anyways. Just my thoughts

The point I was trying to make with that photo is fisherman take far more fish out of the ocean to eat, than we do to keep. But for some reason what we do is demonized; while as Maivortex pointed out, fishing to eat is perfectly fine.

I mean, wha wha what?!

And no, I'm not against fisherman or people eating fish. I just think there's a double standard.

 

[yagesz]

I agree with that guy above me. It is a double standard. Fisherman are killing far more in my opinion. Whether it be for food or extra that is not part of there catch such as the like when you catch sharks and such in nets

 

[Maivortex]

Miavortex, it is sad to hear about a shark being brutally and senslessly killed as they are so important to the health of Hawi'is reefs. I have to disagree with your generalizations however. Reading through the links posted on this thread it is clear the laws have increased the tang populations on the west coast of Hawai'i. If you know of conflicting research I am eager to read it.

Yes the yellow tangs are increasing, but at the same time the achillies and kole tangs are decreasing. It is extremely unclear if the increase in yellow tangs has anything to do with the new laws. Do you really think you can flip a switch and see a change in such a complex system such as the marine web? What we are seeing may just be the natural cycle of yellow tang populations. Look how the populations decline every 4 years. This type of cyclic behavior has nothing to to do with a law. My main generalization is that education is needed before we are to really change the oceans of Hawaii. Have you been to hawaii or sat in class room in hawaii or talked to a local in hawaii before? Perhaps this would shed some light on efficacy of laws with no enforcement and I guarantee that 90% of the population in the island knows nothing of a law.

 

[Bratyboy2]

Well maybe they should stop eating the achillies tangs! Lol

Its sad that the beautiful fish is declining and that so many fish are not making a come back though

 

[billsreef]

It is extremely unclear if the increase in yellow tangs has anything to do with the new laws.

Indeed. The population increase in Yellow Tangs is seen equally in areas that are unaffected by the new laws, as well as being the same increase both outside of MPA's as well as within. This really suggests the population increase had little to nothing to do with any regulations and is simply natural population variability. If anything, and this is purely conjecture on my part, the problem HI has been having with algae could be providing more food for the Yellow Tangs and that could possibly be at the root of the Yellow Tang increase. However, I don't know if there has been any research into this idea, and it would require a good bit to move beyond a simple hypothesis. So if any grad students out there want to run with it, go for it and let us know what you find

 

[ReeferKimberly]

Fine by me. Fish are so cheap, waaaaay cheaper than when I used to work for aquariums many years ago. I prefer fish to cost more so people think a little more before buying them. A dime a dozen fish is much less loss to most people than a $100 fish, no matter what the species. I am all about breeding as many in captivity as possible, same goes for coral. If there are some species that will now be more expensive or even impossible to find I am fine with that. I am certainly not perfect, everyone has lost fish....it just shocked me when I got back into the hobby how much cheaper fish seemed to be because there were not enough limits.

 

[saltwater808]

After being a resident in many islands of Hawaii I dont think any laws are going to change what is taken from the ocean. There is too much natural resource and very little enforcement. The people making the laws are uninformed, have lived there for a few years, think dolphins are cute fish, and could not tell a freshwater fish from a saltwater fish. I have volunteered in various reef societies on the islands and it is composed of reef amateurs that hate aquariums, mean while they are stepping on the reef with an inept ability to snorkel.
On the other side there are those that have lived on the islands their whole life and feel entitled to everything in the ocean. I would frequently camp on the beach overnight. During this time I have seen gill nets with illegal size mesh set on the beach over night , unattended with by-catch such as baby sharks, turtles, rays tangled in the nets and left to die. I have seen tiger sharks caught and stabbed to death on the beach and thrown back in "cause their bad". If these violators get a talking to from law enforcement it is rare let a lone any punishment. The islands are in need of education about the natural resources starting at the elementary school level. On paper it looks great, but No regulations are going to make change in reality.

They are not trying to regulate the people you saw on the beach that night, those people have been camping there for 100's of years. The laws are trying to regulate people like you. Who come to my islands think you know better talk cheap then leave.

Locals don't join reef clubs??? Really? What are you talking about?

 

[addo]

They are not trying to regulate the people you saw on the beach that night, those people have been camping there for 100's of years. The laws are trying to regulate people like you. Who come to my islands think you know better talk cheap then leave.

Locals don't join reef clubs??? Really? What are you talking about?

Dude, laws apply to everyone, local or not!

He never said locals don't join reef clubs, what are you talking about?

 

[saltwater808]

Dude, laws apply to everyone, local or not!

He never said locals don't join reef clubs, what are you talking about?

My point is: The same locals where here before the laws and before the reef was in trouble. Don't you get it? It like your indians, casinos are illegal in CA but yet there they stand 300 room resort smack dab in the middle of CA. We have sovereign rights that you folks don't even know about. Things that would be considered grey area in some courts even here.

The reef club thing came out wrong on text. Sorry for the confusion. I just dont know anyone who would join those clubs that are from here. Must be tourist that have time shares or something. I'm talking about real families that live off the land and sea.4th , 5 th gen fishermans who know every law that has changed. Who sit at the county meetings all day to make sure laws that are brought to this community don't effect his family to much and not just benefit tree hugging rich people who call them selves local cause they live here for 4 months out of the year. All trying to save us from our selves.

 

[albano]

We have sovereign rights that you folks don't even know about.

I think that 'native' Hawaiians get free housing/land, right?

 

[saltwater808]

I think that 'native' Hawaiians get free housing/land, right?

Well that's one of those gray areas again. You have families on a list for 2-3 generations that have not received any land yet. Then you have some that where given land with no water or it cost X amount of thousands to have water pipes put in. Then they are families who are born and raised / work /go to school on one side of the island and are given land on the other side of the island with no resources to move / build housing and change jobs. It's pretty much a mess.
That's not even the sovereign rights I'm talking about. I'm referring to Kanakmoli and similar nations who have there own driver's license and license plates who run around on a whole other set of rules (which all fall in that "gray" area again).
Hawaiians had a chance to go the native American way the reservation etc.. They not as a whole decided not to go that route. One of the reasons being Hawaii was illegal taken from its people. With a promise from the US gov. That things would be made right and Hawaiians are still waiting on that promise. And all of the said groups can not agree on what should be done. So you have this huge stalemate..

 

[Maivortex]

They are not trying to regulate the people you saw on the beach that night, those people have been camping there for 100's of years. The laws are trying to regulate people like you. Who come to my islands think you know better talk cheap then leave.

Locals don't join reef clubs??? Really? What are you talking about?[/QUOTE

It does not matter if your a tourist or a local. No one has the right to slaughter a tiger shark with no intention of eating it. I agree with you the laws do not regulate locals cos they do what eva they want and spoil the land cos they feel that they are entitled. Entitled or not, the land will suffer. Tourist dont litter in hawaii but meanwhile locals leave garbage every where because they are "entitled". It is this naive mentality..... and you are a perfect example of my initial point that money should be spent on educating local residents of hawaii, beginning with the children about the biology of the ocean before they get too old and clueless screaming about sovereignty, and go out trashing the island like they own it. Hawaii belongs to USA, and if it didn't ya'll would be starving cos the ocean would be a cesspool by now.

 

[saltwater808]

They are not trying to regulate the people you saw on the beach that night, those people have been camping there for 100's of years. The laws are trying to regulate people like you. Who come to my islands think you know better talk cheap then leave.

Locals don't join reef clubs??? Really? What are you talking about?[/QUOTE

It does not matter if your a tourist or a local. No one has the right to slaughter a tiger shark with no intention of eating it. I agree with you the laws do not regulate locals cos they do what eva they want and spoil the land cos they feel that they are entitled. Entitled or not, the land will suffer. Tourist dont litter in hawaii but meanwhile locals leave garbage every where because they are "entitled". It is this naive mentality..... and you are a perfect example of my initial point that money should be spent on educating local residents of hawaii, beginning with the children about the biology of the ocean before they get too old and clueless screaming about sovereignty, and go out trashing the island like they own it. Hawaii belongs to USA, and if it didn't ya'll would be starving cos the ocean would be a cesspool by now.

So in the mainland no one hunts for pure enjoyment? Who's spoiling the land? The rich who come here and develope on acers of prime ocean front land just to live for the summer while Hawaiians live homeless? On that same development massive run offs are making its way to the ocean and wiping out entire reefs. Or the rich who have 10 charter boats and bring 1000's of people to see our oceans wild life?

You lived here before you know very well the rich move in and the locals get shafted.
It wasn't a cesspool before the hostile take over.

How can you say the kids don't know about their own ocean? Where are you getting your info? I just told you my friends and family live and breath ocean they know what is best for their livelihood. Thats why you left you will never understand the nature of Hawaii your to set in the mainland BS where you have to lock your homes and worry about your children getting kidnapped.

I cant even believe I have to argue with someone on this. This is insane. Hawaiians have a right to scream. They where robbed of their land do you understand this? The U.S. government agrees with me look it up. It's in legislation a full apology and acts to correct it are already in place. Its the Hawaiians who can't decide what is best for the people as a whole.

I assume you are a teacher?

 

[trae]

Really?

Really?

After being a resident in many islands of Hawaii I dont think any laws are going to change what is taken from the ocean. There is too much natural resource and very little enforcement. The people making the laws are uninformed, have lived there for a few years, think dolphins are cute fish, and could not tell a freshwater fish from a saltwater fish. I have volunteered in various reef societies on the islands and it is composed of reef amateurs that hate aquariums, mean while they are stepping on the reef with an inept ability to snorkel.
On the other side there are those that have lived on the islands their whole life and feel entitled to everything in the ocean. I would frequently camp on the beach overnight. During this time I have seen gill nets with illegal size mesh set on the beach over night , unattended with by-catch such as baby sharks, turtles, rays tangled in the nets and left to die. I have seen tiger sharks caught and stabbed to death on the beach and thrown back in "cause their bad". If these violators get a talking to from law enforcement it is rare let a lone any punishment. The islands are in need of education about the natural resources starting at the elementary school level. On paper it looks great, but No regulations are going to make change in reality.

 

[trae]

So you think that Hawaiians need to be educated on the ocean that they live on, or is it the visitors that need to be educated on Hawaiian life? All I see is some foreigner who is stationed, or visits here and the first thing they want to do is "open an aquarium store because it's easy". I eat Tangs. As well as all the other fish that would be called aquarium fish. I also do not fish until I have "a cooler full", nor do I break pieces of coral off of the reef just because it is there. It sounds like you are describing Snorkel bob and associates...

 

[addo]

It, seems there are two sides to this and both use the other side as a scapegoat for the problems the reefs are having, instead of just trying to fix the problems best they can. I'm sure there are individuals doing good and bad on both sides.

But what do I know, I'm on the other side of the planet LOL.

 

[billsreef]

So in the mainland no one hunts for pure enjoyment? Who's spoiling the land? The rich who come here and develope on acers of prime ocean front land just to live for the summer while Hawaiians live homeless? On that same development massive run offs are making its way to the ocean and wiping out entire reefs. Or the rich who have 10 charter boats and bring 1000's of people to see our oceans wild life?

Those problems are far from endemic to HI, they are found along the entire US coast line as well many other countries.

How can you say the kids don't know about their own ocean? Where are you getting your info? I just told you my friends and family live and breath ocean they know what is best for their livelihood.

Unless being Hawaiian confers some inborn mystical understanding of the ocean, ecology, fisheries, etc. I wouldn't expect anyone to know these things simply from generations of living and breathing the ocean. Again, these are issues common to any coastal community anyplace in the world. I know people that make their living off the ocean that have an excellent understanding, and others that are clueless and don't believe things like overfishing or pollution are even possible. So yes, a good education is necessary, despite growing up and living the coastal life. BTW having spent a lifetime on the coast, most of it on an end of an island whose primary economy for generations has been fishing, farming and tourism I've seen first hand all the these issues

 

[billsreef]

So you think that Hawaiians need to be educated on the ocean that they live on, or is it the visitors that need to be educated on Hawaiian life? All I see is some foreigner who is stationed, or visits here and the first thing they want to do is "open an aquarium store because it's easy". I eat Tangs. As well as all the other fish that would be called aquarium fish. I also do not fish until I have "a cooler full", nor do I break pieces of coral off of the reef just because it is there. It sounds like you are describing Snorkel bob and associates...

IMO everyone needs to be educated on the ocean, not just Hawaiians or tourists to Hawaii, but everyone everywhere. Our oceans are just too important not to