Help kordon ich attack

Status
Not open for further replies.
There are a few commonalities I've observed among those that find QT and/Hospital tanks not to work, and none are a failing of the idea of properly run QT and Hospital tanks. The are, however, some common failings of the aquarist, set up last minute without adequate filtration, waiting till after the fish is too sick and weak to begin treatment, failure to recognize the disease till it's too late (particularly with Amyloodinium), improper diagnosis and improper treatment choice. Properly ID the disease in the early stages, and with the proper treatment protocol, there is no reason removal to a hospital/treatment tank won't work. It's what the professional aquarist do, and they wouldn't go through the bother if it didn't make sense.
 
What if you have corals and cleanup crew in tank?

What if you have corals and cleanup crew in tank?

If you just remove the fish for 72 hours, is that enough to rid of Ich

Thanks
 
slgcmg said:
Making my way through this thread since my last update...

To the OP, have had a tank set up since 1999, had a 4 year break in between so I'm not some inexperienced reefer.

I have not had success with hospital tanks. I have had way more success just leaving the fish in there and making the environment as stress free as possible. Since I started this method, my death rates dropped dramatically.

Do I have ich in my current tank, yes. The only one that ever shows signs of it are my Powder Blue and my Regal. They get a couple of spots and then they are gone by the next day. As you can see in my avatar, I've got several healthy tangs though.

The more established your tank is, the better chance they have at overcoming it. That is what I noticed. As my tanks matured, the ich signs on fish were smaller and smaller. Now pretty much non existent. There is a thread on here from another reefer who has way more years in it then me that basically eludes to the same thing.

Nothing scientific here, just my experience while having a tank set up for about 10+ years.
Click to expand...

Well said man Iv had the same experience and so have many many others that's why there's so many threads out there saying the same exact thing even threads on here like u mentioned, but some people I guess just try to ignore them and that's fine we all have our own ways of doing things. Nothing scientific but years of experience and healthy fish
 
Last edited:
billsreef said:
There are a few commonalities I've observed among those that find QT and/Hospital tanks not to work, and none are a failing of the idea of properly run QT and Hospital tanks. The are, however, some common failings of the aquarist, set up last minute without adequate filtration, waiting till after the fish is too sick and weak to begin treatment, failure to recognize the disease till it's too late (particularly with Amyloodinium), improper diagnosis and improper treatment choice. Properly ID the disease in the early stages, and with the proper treatment protocol, there is no reason removal to a hospital/treatment tank won't work. It's what the professional aquarist do, and they wouldn't go through the bother if it didn't make sense.
Click to expand...


Good reading!
Reading between the lines a little; when a fish dies, most folks will immediate blame it on something they did, whatever was in the tank at the time, or just the poor results from whatever treatment, product, method, etc. being used. Many folks take too long to act and are not ready for emergencies. This is understandable, especially for newer hobbyists. Example: If a fish has been showing signs of velvet and then put in an uncycled HT with copper, then dies. The copper will always get blamed. If a fish dies from "stress'' while being captured for treatment, something is very wrong.
 
Moorepower said:
And I have read many posts and stickies that said a HT/QT and hypo and copper still killed there fish.
Click to expand...
That's to be expected. No cure is 100%, and any choice you make has ups and downs. Some people are saved by antibiotics, and some people die from them.

Exactly what caused a fish's death in a situation like this is hard to know. Copper is stressful for fish, and so is the disease, and so is the transfer. Furthermore, copper isn't an instant cure, so a fish can die before the copper has any useful effect.
 
Morepower from what I have learned in my experience is you need two tanks in this hobby.

A QT and a DT.


Combating ICH is to simply eradicate it before it hits your display. QT everything using cupramine and prazipro.
Don't ever put anything in your DT unless you medicate it first with the meds I mentioned above.

I have wasted and killed more fish then a lot of folks on here because I refused to QT. Finally after realizing and loosing ALOT of money, I have truly seen where QT with cupramine and prazipro works!!!

I have 4 tangs that have received this above treatment, an achilles tang, hippo tang, powder blue tang and a sailfin tang. All shared space in a 90 gallon tank which is small however they are not large by any means.

They fight a little from time to time but nothing too severe. Is there tension and stress in the tank? Of course, but do you know after a few weeks none of these fish have a single white spot, no flashing and they are healthy specimens. My fish most likely are stressed a little due to QT tank size and still not a single white spot:-)

Personally I think feeding with Nori and Garlic simply keeps the fish immune system in the best possible condition. The fish however will still have ich and will be suffering. ICH population in your tank will continue to get worse. Some fish might be able to fight if off to where you don't see the fish covered with cysts but they will still have it. If you see a fish flashing against PVC pipes or rocks most likely he has ICH.

Eradicate the parasite and you don't have to worry!

After seeing the outcome of my tangs health, your crazy not to QT/medicate all fish. Hell I might QT my hand before I reach in the DT for any reason :-)

buy a few 10 gallon tanks or use some plastic rubber maids you might have around the house.
You will have to do this if you care for your pets.

You will need the meds I mentioned above plus ammonia tester and a seachem badge for each tank.

Treat for 4 weeks and let your DT sit fallow a minimum of 8 weeks. It's a painful process but you will be glad that you did it in the long run...

I have used every magic ICH formula known to man. The only thing that I have found to work is using cupramine and prazipro to fight against ICH and flukes.

I'll say again, it works!

Good luck....
 
bertoni said:
Okay, I moved a bunch of posts to a different thread. Further posts should have comments about marine ich and its treatment. The arguing about the method of discussion can be done here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2374397
Click to expand...

Thank you bertoni and to the op garlic guard is the product I mentioned before by seachem, It's a little cheaper then Kents I think u can get it around 8 bucks on amazon right now, I don't know that it helps prevent ich or cure ich but I do know it helps entice fish to eat and that's why I use it
 
MrTuskfish said:
Good reading!
Reading between the lines a little; when a fish dies, most folks will immediate blame it on something they did, whatever was in the tank at the time, or just the poor results from whatever treatment, product, method, etc. being used. Many folks take too long to act and are not ready for emergencies. This is understandable, especially for newer hobbyists. Example: If a fish has been showing signs of velvet and then put in an uncycled HT with copper, then dies. The copper will always get blamed. If a fish dies from "stress'' while being captured for treatment, something is very wrong.
Click to expand...

Quite true. I've had people show me fish that "just" got sick, only to see fish that has obviously been fighting some parasite for days to weeks without the aquarist being aware. At that point there is no guarantee that any action will have a successful outcome.
 
Ach1llesTang said:
Personally I think feeding with Nori and Garlic simply keeps the fish immune system in the best possible condition. The fish however will still have ich and will be suffering.
Click to expand...
I agree that improving the diet of any sick fish likely is going to help the animal fight the disease, if it's still eating, anyway. It's also possible, though, that the fish in a tank eventually will be able to fight off the Cryptocaryon parasite completely. I don't know what the odds are, but it's possible.
 
bertoni said:
I agree that improving the diet of any sick fish likely is going to help the animal fight the disease, if it's still eating, anyway. It's also possible, though, that the fish in a tank eventually will be able to fight off the Cryptocaryon parasite completely. I don't know what the odds are, but it's possible.
Click to expand...


Yeah Bertoni you might be right, what I have read the fish become sort of immune to the parasite. My previous achilles that I had for almost 2 years died of ICH. Symptoms would come and go and finally it got the best of him. I thought after a year of having the parasite he would grow to be immune to it based on what i read. When it died, my son and I were really sad and that is when I made a promise to myself I will QT / medicate all fish from now on.
 
Animals have an immune system, so it's possible (but not guaranteed) that they can develop enough resistance to a parasite, or a strain of a parasite, to be immune. I've heard stories both ways on fish developing immunity after time. People vary in their immune system's strength, and so do fish. If it weren't possible to have such immunity, vaccines wouldn't work. If it were guaranteed, all vaccines would work all the time.
 
DSPs said:
Well said man Iv had the same experience and so have many many others that's why there's so many threads out there saying the same exact thing even threads on here like u mentioned, but some people I guess just try to ignore them and that's fine we all have our own ways of doing things. Nothing scientific but years of experience and healthy fish
Click to expand...

I know. I,will admit though that I refuse to add any more fish. My last one was my powder blue and he was my reason for getting back in the hobby. Not going to chance it, also he is pretty mean

I am not against QT, I support it 100%. If I get the urge to start up a 2nd tank, I will probably do QT to compare the success. Either that, or I will strictly only purchased through divers den which QT their livestock.

I agree with the above post about immunity. Mine have obviously developed the immunity to ich.
 
From post 32:

Fish that survive a Cryptocaryon infection develop immunity to that particular strain of Cryptocaryon, which can prevent significant disease reoccurrence for up to 6 months (Burgess 1992; Burgess and Matthews 1995). However, these survivors may act as carriers and provide a reservoir for future outbreaks (Colorni and Burgess 1997).
 
slgcmg said:
I know. I,will admit though that I refuse to add any more fish. My last one was my powder blue and he was my reason for getting back in the hobby. Not going to chance it, also he is pretty mean

I am not against QT, I support it 100%. If I get the urge to start up a 2nd tank, I will probably do QT to compare the success. Either that, or I will strictly only purchased through divers den which QT their livestock.

I agree with the above post about immunity. Mine have obviously developed the immunity to ich.
Click to expand...

FWIW: Drs. Foster and Smith recommend that you quarantine their fish from Divers Den, just like all new fish.
 
MrTuskfish said:
FWIW: Drs. Foster and Smith recommend that you quarantine their fish from Divers Den, just like all new fish.
Click to expand...


In the past, I was burned by this. I believe that they do medicate all Diver's Den fish now, but QTing them is still recommended. Nothing goes into my tank without QT
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In line with what Bill is saying above, many (most?) aquarists rely on visual symptoms on the fish to diagnose parasites. Better technique would be to learn to read the fish's behavior. Flashing, reclusiveness, fast breathing, hanging near the surface or water returns, or sensitivity to light are all precursors to a fish displaying visual signs of a parasite. Visual signs, in the case of brook or velvet, may actually be too late. Also, many of the ich deaths reported are more than likely velvet related; ich, because of the exponential character of the life cycle usually takes longer to actually do a fish in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

E
Need some help with two clowns swimming unusually as I’m doing a fish cycle.
2
Replies
24
Views
3K
kfisc
kfisc
R
some random questions
Replies
1
Views
140
SantaMonica
S
Paul B
How Fish are Different from most of us
Replies
1
Views
1K
Paul B
Paul B
Brian60077
Be patient, wait, and do not rush to add things ???
Replies
11
Views
2K
Brian60077
Brian60077
E
Ich.. my experience with battle in DT. New "Bluichtiof" treatment.
Replies
15
Views
2K
griss
griss
Back
Top