Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)

[Wally.B]

Before you go too crazy feeding - what are you using for a skimmer?

I'm running a EuroReef Skimmer for this 65 Gal Tank. Have had it for over a decade. I believe it is a RS-135, or similar. Rated at avg load 135gal; heavy load 100gal.

It's currently set to skim wet. I empty a semi clear 1/2 cup daily. And clean the thicker build up on the collar.

 

[Wally.B]

So after 4 days... Of feeding fish double overall (but many more times a day).

And feeding Corals overnight daily, very lightly. Variations of (OsterFeast + [Reef Roids, Coral Frenzy, Aquavitro Fuel] ) ((Note: Coral were never fed before. Ever!))

PO4 still zero.

But NO3 has finally registered on my test kit (first time in a year). Yesterday 0.2, Today 0.1

Other parameters have been rock solid steady:

CA 450
ALK 8.4
MAG 1400
TEMP=78.5-79.0


Corals haven't changed much (possibly a hint darker). No point posting any pictures yet.

Obviously too soon.
Or need to feed nutrients more (which I am ramping up very slowly...to be safe)

All I can say is I have to clean the glass a bit more to have a really clean look.
Also skim is a bit thicker.

And of course, fish really now love me. They now jump every time they see me near the tank.

Made the following modifications today:

1) Adjusted pumps slightly and changed apex timing for better circulation.
2) Increased 250W MH lights on time by 15 mins. Now running 4hrs, 45mins.
3) Added a fresh brightly colored Blue Oregon Tort Frag, to see if it fades over time (like the other corals did over last year).

The 3 small blue/green Chromis's which have been in quarantine tank should be going into tank over the weekend. One by one.

Will report back in a week, or if there is change worth noting.

 

[JB NY]

I think that changes may take weeks, if not months to notice.

 

[Wally.B]

I think that changes may take weeks, if not months to notice.

Understood.

That's the painful part of this hobby.

Bad adjustments hurt things quickly.

Good ones take time.

I've learned to be patient, and also learned to make slow adjustments.
Usually one at a time.

 

[swk]

I would not add the chromis one by one. The chances are good that you'll end up with the only the first one surviving. The one that has been in the tank the longest will claim the entire tank as his own and will likely kill all the other new additions. Add them all at once would be my advice. 3 small chromis will not impact water quality in a negative way as long as you are careful when feeding for the first couple of days.

Sounds like you're taking good steps! Be careful with expecting quick results. It may take MONTHS before any real change appears, but stay the course!

 

[Wally.B]

I would not add the chromis one by one. The chances are good that you'll end up with the only the first one surviving. The one that has been in the tank the longest will claim the entire tank as his own and will likely kill all the other new additions. Add them all at once would be my advice. 3 small chromis will not impact water quality in a negative way as long as you are careful when feeding for the first couple of days.

Sounds like you're taking good steps! Be careful with expecting quick results. It may take MONTHS before any real change appears, but stay the course!

Thanks for this tip. I already have a Chromis in the tank. He's been there a while and at least double the size of the 3 I'm planning to introduce. BAD IDEA? (or will adding all 3 at once diffuse his killing efforts)

I was thinking 1 Medium fish. Another Tang. Is that a better choice?

 

[swk]

If you have a single chromis already, I would definitely add all 3, maybe even 5 and hope for the best.

Do you have any bristle tooth tangs yet? Tomini? They are excellent algae controllers if you're planning on raising nutrients by a bit.

 

[Icefire]

2) Increased 250W MH lights on time by 15 mins. Now running 4hrs, 45mins.

4.75 hours of full lights? Mines are 8 hours +...

 

[Myka]

Increased 250W MH lights on time by 15 mins. Now running 4hrs, 45mins.

The 3 small blue/green Chromis's which have been in quarantine tank should be going into tank over the weekend. One by one.

I'd be ramping that up to at least 6-8 hours halide time. You should be able to increase by 30 mins per week without ill effects.

For a 65-gallon tank, I'd put all 3 Chromis in at once. The tank is large enough that the bioload increase won't be significant enough to cause any issue, and there will be less aggression if you add same-species fish all in one go.

Also, don't change too many things at once, nor in too quick succession. If you make any changes too quickly, you can pass the point of optimum, reach a point of "too much of a good thing is bad", and you may not know the difference.

One more thing, I'd be inclined to just feed the fish more rather than trying to add any foods to the water for the corals. I've found it to be very easy to pollute the tank when feeding the water column. Fish will eat a lot more than they need. They will eat when they aren't that hungry. Nature has made them this way - if there's food eat it because you don't know when the next bit will come by! So just feed them a bit more, a bit more often. Don't let the food fly around the tank or settle on the bottom, that does no good.

Keep in mind too, that you may need to increase your cleanup crew too. I have a soft spot for Scarlet Hermits, especially with SPS corals since the hermits are able to get into little places that snails can't.

 

[Wally.B]

One more thing, I'd be inclined to just feed the fish more rather than trying to add any foods to the water for the corals. I've found it to be very easy to pollute the tank when feeding the water column.

I agree. Feeding Corals was just a short term (Early Kick Start) thing till I put the Chromis's in.
Couple more days of Quarantine.

Yes I do have a busy clean up variety crew. Best member is my Diamond Watch Goby who cleans my sand bottom daily.
He raised annoying dust storms at the beginning, but now fine dust is gone.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Curious as to why the short photoperiod as well...

Also, I would skip introducing the chromis and sell them if you can, as you'll just end up with one eventually anyways. These are not peaceful schooling fish and they will kill each other one by one until only the most dominant one remains.

 

[Wally.B]

Curious as to why the short photoperiod as well...

The reason for the shortened Photo period is as follows

A few months ago I converted my fixture from 150W MH, to 250MH.
I was careful to acclimatize slowly (raising lights initially and then slowly lowering).
Was running 6.5 hours photoperiod at the time.

However over a period of time the top side of my several of my SPS corals went white, or intensely pale (but still polyping).
Didn't know the reason, but assumed new stronger bulbs.

So I cut back on lighting again, by raising lights and reducing Photo Period. This helped the corals come back topside.
So at this point I have manage to lower my lights enough, but am still working on increasing Photo period.

I was and am still suspicious from reading posts, that with low nutrients you get super clear water, and combined with that intense lighting can burn your corals.

Sure it could be other things, but the pale topside of each coral, appeared like a shadow cast by light (not burned tips). Thus my theory, and adjustment.

 

[Wally.B]

Also, I would skip introducing the chromis and sell them if you can, as you'll just end up with one eventually anyways. These are not peaceful schooling fish and they will kill each other one by one until only the most dominant one remains.

The original reason for choosing Chromis is not that it's my first choice.
It was simply to introduce nutrients slowly.

However hearing that I need to add all at once, and that they are not friendly schoolers, I'm having 2nd thoughts.
They are in quarantine tank, and LFS take back fish (small restock fee).

My rockscape will support two larger fish due to two caves.
I currently have one large Yellow tang, and was leaning toward a Naso tang since tangs are best once I eventually start getting some algae on rocks.

(Currrent fish load is 1xYellow Tang, 1xDiamond Back Goby, 1xMedium Chromis and 1xMandarin Goby).

However a Medium Naso Tang is a big jump in feeding and nutrients. Your thoughts?

 

[Peter Eichler]

The original reason for choosing Chromis is not that it's my first choice.
It was simply to introduce nutrients slowly.

However hearing that I need to add all at once, and that they are not friendly schoolers, I'm having 2nd thoughts.
They are in quarantine tank, and LFS take back fish (small restock fee).

My rockscape will support two larger fish due to two caves.
I currently have one large Yellow tang, and was leaning toward a Naso tang since tangs are best once I eventually start getting some algae on rocks.

(Currrent fish load is 1xYellow Tang, 1xDiamond Back Goby, 1xMedium Chromis and 1xMandarin Goby).

However a Medium Naso Tang is a big jump in feeding and nutrients. Your thoughts?

Take the fish back, it will only end poorly if you don't... As for fish, anything under 300 gallons is really no place for a naso. They get really big and will even outgrow 300+ before too long. Get yourself a wrasse or two, maybe a fire figs or one of the more peaceful ORA Pseudochromis. Some of the plankton eating bennies Ora is doing are cool as well, just avoid the grazers...

 

[Wally.B]

HANG ON !!

1) This whole thread started about my concern about SPS Frag growth after 1 year. (If I could improve things with higher Calcium).

2) It then got a bit sidetracked about coral Pale Colors.

The the topic of Pale colors got into discussion about adding fish to increase nutrients to solve both Growth and Pale Colors.

However tonight when taking my regular photo of the tank, I decide to peek back through time. I jumped back 3 months.

Some frag were added, and some moved around, so I really wasn't paying attention to any particular frag. Just generally concerned that most were not growing fast enough.

Then I noticed one frag I didn't recognize, and realized that it had been growing. Not bad for 3 months I think.
(( Even the color of the frag was fine as seen in first photo. But that could be since it may have been a new add. But 100% sure not the one above it))

This photo comparison below shows what I mean. (Center Frag)

QUESTION. If one frag is growing fine, then are chemical water conditions (Stability, Nutrients) good enough for rest of the SPS corals to grow?

I do track/log my SPS tank religiously. Everything (daily). Every test. Every water change, and every drop of anything added to the tank.

I have been dosing additives, feeding corals, and making lighting changes over this period of experimentation.

I'm going to go through my logs and pictures to get a better understanding, before I make any adjustments at this point. Including adding fish.

Maybe I do have a bunch of really slow growth corals, and also have a pale coral issue.

Sure NO3, PO3 had and is still 0.00 during this time. It could be related to changes in lighting. Not sure, till I check my logs.

Or maybe my frags are not properly placed wrt. to lighting requirements.

I had the right conditions around the month of Februrary. My memory isn't the greatest these days. However my logs and apex have good memory.
I'm doing to figure out what it was.

(My guess is I switch from manual weekly Alk/Calk adjustments, to AutoDosing).
Then I mucked things up with lighting changes. Possibly playing with additives on top. Since fish and nutrients didn't change.

Maybe if I'm really lucky. All I need to do is increase Photo Period and not even have to move corals around much.

Stay tuned. Going to start my history analysis.

 

[Wally.B]

My preliminary review of Tank Logs, shows I was trying to increase photoperiod around the Feb Timeframe.

That could explains the beginning of the growth spurt.

Then I backed off around Mid March since I was getting white bleaching type effect on topside of the corals. (I raised lights, and reduced photo period at the time)

Reviewing other log details, but at this point will be slowing increase photoperiod. First increase to 5hrs (+30mins).

 

[g0rilla]

If you want to raise 1 of the majors you have to raise all of them

this is simply not true...

 

[Wally.B]

All I plan to do is restore my PhotoPeriod slowly back the level I had with growth (6.0-6.5hrs).
MH lights will remain at their current higher position. They may have been to low last time (and reason for coral whitening topside)

Then I'll continue to increase photoperiod slowly (Max 8hrs or whatever corals can handle), but this time my nutrient levels will be higher.

Also this time as per this thread recommendation, my temp is higher. 78.5-79.

No other factors such as (Alk, Calc, Alk, Mag, Salinity) are going to be changed.
They will simply be kept stable.

 

[brad65ford]

HANG ON !!

1) This whole thread started about my concern about SPS Frag growth after 1 year. (If I could improve things with higher Calcium).

2) It then got a bit sidetracked about coral Pale Colors.

The the topic of Pale colors got into discussion about adding fish to increase nutrients to solve both Growth and Pale Colors.

However tonight when taking my regular photo of the tank, I decide to peek back through time. I jumped back 3 months.

Some frag were added, and some moved around, so I really wasn't paying attention to any particular frag. Just generally concerned that most were not growing fast enough.

Then I noticed one frag I didn't recognize, and realized that it had been growing. Not bad for 3 months I think.
(( Even the color of the frag was fine as seen in first photo. But that could be since it may have been a new add. But 100% sure not the one above it))

This photo comparison below shows what I mean. (Center Frag)

QUESTION. If one frag is growing fine, then are chemical water conditions (Stability, Nutrients) good enough for rest of the SPS corals to grow?

I do track/log my SPS tank religiously. Everything (daily). Every test. Every water change, and every drop of anything added to the tank.

I have been dosing additives, feeding corals, and making lighting changes over this period of experimentation.

I'm going to go through my logs and pictures to get a better understanding, before I make any adjustments at this point. Including adding fish.

Maybe I do have a bunch of really slow growth corals, and also have a pale coral issue.

Sure NO3, PO3 had and is still 0.00 during this time. It could be related to changes in lighting. Not sure, till I check my logs.

Or maybe my frags are not properly placed wrt. to lighting requirements.

I had the right conditions around the month of Februrary. My memory isn't the greatest these days. However my logs and apex have good memory.
I'm doing to figure out what it was.

(My guess is I switch from manual weekly Alk/Calk adjustments, to AutoDosing).
Then I mucked things up with lighting changes. Possibly playing with additives on top. Since fish and nutrients didn't change.

Maybe if I'm really lucky. All I need to do is increase Photo Period and not even have to move corals around much.

Stay tuned. Going to start my history analysis.

Looking at your first photo i would not say your corals color and or health was all the good regardless it (that one especially) kept growing. Regardless of your thread start subject I would strongly look at lowering your lighting intensity and photo period aside from looking at all your premature and nutrients which is a given. Not sure if you have a par meter but they are great tools. For some reason I believe corals have an easier time coming back to health by lower lighting then increasing nutrients if the nutrients are low. Once you have some color back in them you can increase your lighting but imo why would you if they have good color and health :thumbsup: Don't be fooled by everyone mentioning on these forums how bright and intense their lightning is. Most of us have been successful running lower lightning.

 

[Wally.B]

Looking at your first photo i would not say your corals color and or health was all the good regardless it (that one especially) kept growing. Regardless of your thread start subject I would strongly look at lowering your lighting intensity and photo period aside from looking at all your premature and nutrients which is a given. Not sure if you have a par meter but they are great tools. For some reason I believe corals have an easier time coming back to health by lower lighting then increasing nutrients if the nutrients are low. Once you have some color back in them you can increase your lighting but imo why would you if they have good color and health :thumbsup: Don't be fooled by everyone mentioning on these forums how bright and intense their lightning is. Most of us have been successful running lower lightning.

Your point makes sense to me, and kind of the direction I was going originally back in Feb.
(lowering light intensity, photoperiods), since I thought I was harming corals with too strong lights.

I'll hold off on the lighting change increases. Possibly a tad lower. And purely get back to focusing on nutrients, to improve health and color.

I don't have a par meter, however I do have a LUX meter (Milwaukee MW700).
I regret getting the cheaper meter, since I can't measure true PARS, even though there are formula's to convert.
This link was provided but I find a bit confusing http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/equipment
All I can use it for is to compare light levels within my tank areas. Not set my lights for proper coral Par recommendations.
If anyone can recommend how to use it. Please pass on any info.