Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)
- Thread starter Wally.B
- Start date
Wally.B
Active member
Positive Update.
Nothing to start jumping about yet. But I'm jumping.
Today white doing a close look at frags, noticed what appeared polyps on one of my frags.
This frag has never had polyps. Been always brown, beige.
Took a picture and to my surprise it is showing small Greenish polyps, and a bit of purple tips at the top.
This is not Actnic Light glow (Actinic Light is off, just White LED strip on). This is a shot taken with White flash.
Before extra Fish & Coral feeding and Longer Photo Period
Today after a couple weeks of extra Feeding and increasing Photo Period
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/Coral2_zpsuoke1t2q.jpg[~original/IMG]
Promising change!
(Could it possibly be the [U]Phol's Coral Vitalizer [/U]or [U]Polyp-Booster[/U]) (That I started only two days ago?), at least to explain the new Polyps.
When I look through my Photo's which were not closeups shots prior to 2 days ago, there were no Polyps.
Nothing to start jumping about yet. But I'm jumping.
Today white doing a close look at frags, noticed what appeared polyps on one of my frags.
This frag has never had polyps. Been always brown, beige.
Took a picture and to my surprise it is showing small Greenish polyps, and a bit of purple tips at the top.
This is not Actnic Light glow (Actinic Light is off, just White LED strip on). This is a shot taken with White flash.
Before extra Fish & Coral feeding and Longer Photo Period
Today after a couple weeks of extra Feeding and increasing Photo Period
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/Coral2_zpsuoke1t2q.jpg[~original/IMG]
Promising change!
(Could it possibly be the [U]Phol's Coral Vitalizer [/U]or [U]Polyp-Booster[/U]) (That I started only two days ago?), at least to explain the new Polyps.
When I look through my Photo's which were not closeups shots prior to 2 days ago, there were no Polyps.
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Peter Eichler
New member
Polyp booster has something in it that helps poylp extension, most likely an amino acid that elicits a feeding response. I wouldn't necessarily assume it's a sign of improved health, just a reaction to a stimulus, but it's at least not a bad sign.
Wally.B
Active member
Nice growth V10King. Really nice colors.
What are you doing for nutrients? Lots of fish or feeding corals with Additives? Both?
What kind of lights do you have? MH 250W + T5 ? What is your photoperiod?
What about your Calc, ALk, Mag parameters. And N03, PO4.
I am strongly convinced my issue is two things. (Nutrients and Lighting Photoperiod). Working to up both. (Carefully to not start an Algae problem).
I can already tell that as I am upping both, I have to clean my tank glass & circulation pumps algae a lot more. Rocks are clean at this point.
What are you doing for nutrients? Lots of fish or feeding corals with Additives? Both?
What kind of lights do you have? MH 250W + T5 ? What is your photoperiod?
What about your Calc, ALk, Mag parameters. And N03, PO4.
I am strongly convinced my issue is two things. (Nutrients and Lighting Photoperiod). Working to up both. (Carefully to not start an Algae problem).
I can already tell that as I am upping both, I have to clean my tank glass & circulation pumps algae a lot more. Rocks are clean at this point.
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Wazzel
New member
I read through your thread again and I also think light and food is your issue. Just keep bringing them up slowly and the tank will come around. Our tanks are about the same age (first frag in my tank May 2014) and I got way more growth and better colors than you.
Wally.B
Active member
New Fish Update.
So I got another fish in 2nd quarantine tank (separate from Angel). A really nice bright orange clownfish (tank bred).
I can introduce him after the Angel goes in first.
The great thing about doing quarantine this time (first time), is I'm training the new fish to eat pellets. (which I have jars of, since never used with any success in past)
I always gave up on pellets in the display tank since they wouldn't eat them and a lot of uneaten food was settling as waste.
In quarantine they have no choice, and the Angel has quickly learned. Clown will eat anything.
This will also help when they are introduced into Display tank, since they might teach the others fish to eat pellets by watch and learn. And there won't be waste from the newcomers.
I'm also preparing the Display Tank for more feeding (clean up) by adding a few extra Nassarius snails, and some small blue legged crabs.
So I got another fish in 2nd quarantine tank (separate from Angel). A really nice bright orange clownfish (tank bred).
I can introduce him after the Angel goes in first.
The great thing about doing quarantine this time (first time), is I'm training the new fish to eat pellets. (which I have jars of, since never used with any success in past)
I always gave up on pellets in the display tank since they wouldn't eat them and a lot of uneaten food was settling as waste.
In quarantine they have no choice, and the Angel has quickly learned. Clown will eat anything.
This will also help when they are introduced into Display tank, since they might teach the others fish to eat pellets by watch and learn. And there won't be waste from the newcomers.
I'm also preparing the Display Tank for more feeding (clean up) by adding a few extra Nassarius snails, and some small blue legged crabs.
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Wally.B
Active member
Quick Update.
Too soon for any significant color changes or growth, but change is happening...for sure!
I can see the glow and colors shifting in the corals, like never over last year.
Hard to see in a photo, but when Actnics on, I see my tank looking quite different from the past.
Was really tempted to throw in the Angel after a week in quarantine Tank #1, but am holding off another week.
Here is a comparison after approx. 2 weeks of extra nutrients.
http://wworld.atspace.cc/SPS-Tank-2015-05-25/ (Cool Picture Compare tool I setup on my web site)
Next update will be approx. a month from Now.
- Continue to feed my Fish (extra) and Corals daily.
- Added more circulation borrowing the Grye XF150 from my other tank (Was too powerful for my LPS/mix tank anyway)
- Photo Period up to 5hrs 45 mins (Staying here for a while)
- Most fish now trained on Pellets for better cleaner future feeding.
- Working on that Web Cam idea to figure out Skimmer Floods (Getting close. It's not the fish. Something else.)
Too soon for any significant color changes or growth, but change is happening...for sure!
I can see the glow and colors shifting in the corals, like never over last year.
Hard to see in a photo, but when Actnics on, I see my tank looking quite different from the past.
Was really tempted to throw in the Angel after a week in quarantine Tank #1, but am holding off another week.
Here is a comparison after approx. 2 weeks of extra nutrients.
http://wworld.atspace.cc/SPS-Tank-2015-05-25/ (Cool Picture Compare tool I setup on my web site)
Next update will be approx. a month from Now.
Last edited:
a.browning
New member
In case this wasn't clearly apparent by this point in the thread, there is absolutely no such thing as "balanced" cal/alk/mag levels.. No single reading effects what the other should be at. Also elevating these levels too high will only cause issues. Higher levels do NOT force more growth, and at least from personal experience, does the exact opposite.
I had very similar issues initially with sps. They are very misunderstood corals, they actually like high nutrients but low end waste product values. High import and export of nutrients basically. It wasn't until I had at least 8 fish in my 75 and feeding at least 1-2 cubes of frozen food daily that my colors came back and growth exploded.
I had very similar issues initially with sps. They are very misunderstood corals, they actually like high nutrients but low end waste product values. High import and export of nutrients basically. It wasn't until I had at least 8 fish in my 75 and feeding at least 1-2 cubes of frozen food daily that my colors came back and growth exploded.
Wally.B
Active member
After what I am going through right now (positive changes), thanks to everyone's advice on "MORE NUTRIENTS" for my Nutrient starved SPS Corals.
I agree with you 100%. (more Fish, more nutrients).
This thread started with me asking if my Calcium (Balanced or not) was too low for good SPS coral growth. Calcium had nothing to do with my issue. My pathetic colors and growth was actually caused 8 months of underfeeding, due to my over sensitivity of getting problem Algae, and Cyano)
The only other remaining factor I need to figure out is ideal lighting (250W MH fixture height, and optimal Photo Period).
And my unstable Over Wet-Skimming Skimmer!
Wally.B
Active member
Skimmer WebCam Update: (While we wait for the slow process of Nutrients Healing my SPS corals).
I know this thread started on the topic of Higher Calcium, related to my poor tank progress over many months.
It obviously has become kind of a Tank Thread, which has helped me greatly identify my poor nutrient issue.
I'll start up a proper tank thread at some point, but for now will continue to resolve my two other issues (lighting, and Nutrient Export via my skimmer), since I have some good knowledgeable folks providing me excellent advice here.
Again Many Thanks to everyone for steering me right. I simply can't believe the changes that are happening.
Even the paper white Digitatis SPS is showing pink color recover today. WOW, I thought is was near death!
I know with increasing nutrients and adding fish, my happy journey could become sourer with nutrient related issues like Algae & Cyano.
Even with my pure increase to 2-3x higher feeding, my Nitrate remains 0.1, and Phosphate 0, so I think I do have a good nutrient export setup.
So my next tackle is my skimmer, which has been unstable and over skimming (Wet). I'm sure it's probably a factor contributing to my super low nutrient levels.
Not a problem in the long run (as nutrients go up), but I need to tune it properly.
As I mentioned it's WET skimming, inconsistently (EVEN AT LOWEST SETTING). Does nothings, then goes crazy while I'm not watching.
So I've been watching with my DOUBLE web Cam setup.
With my 10 Minute snapshots 24/7 over last few days as show below. I've been able to eliminate that it's not my Diamond Watch Goby, stirring up the sand.
What was really cools watching these Night Vision time lapses is how busy the clean up crew is during the night, and how much the snails cover.
So I added the Cheap clock in the background to see if it happens at a certain time of day. Still waiting for more proof.
However what made it difficult to figure out, is the skimmer cup would fill up, bubbling out of control, returning waste back into the sump.
I couldn't tell when bursts stop, since skim cycles never completed with dumps into sump.
So today, I drilled a drain into the cup. I know from other threads it's dangerous to have a open drain.
Especially with my Auto Top up system, that is a 2 GAL reservoir, backed up by a endless RO supply. (yes I could limit this, but not the issue I want to solve). Also, I do replace the large wet skim with equivalent fresh Salt water to maintain salinity.
So I had it drain into a bucket. However that bucket filled up quickly, and spilled on the floor. Glad I was around to stop that!!
So my current modified DRAIN setup is "The BUCKET" is in sump, so when it fills up, it will spill back into sump, limiting the over skim.
This will allow me to watch longer periods, and be safe. While I tune my skimmer and sump setups (including Return pump valve, for flow).
Some pics below of SUMP compares for those that have advice to offer:
What conditions cause one skimmer to act unstable, while another not?.
The primary big difference between the two TANKS is Return flow:
90 LPS TANK SUMP Setup (Stable Skimmer)
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/SkimmerKIT_zpszwa1r2ci.jpg[~original/IMG]
[B]Could the tuning on this EuroReef Skimmer be super senstive, and I need to find the sweet spot? (I doubt it)[/B]
(Other EuroReef skimmer isn't like that). Both are cleaned properly, including pumps and venturi's.
[B][COLOR="Blue"]Anyone have any idea's or experience why a skimmer would sit skimming almost nothing, then have bursts certain times of day? [/COLOR][/B]
[B]I will end this post on one note of concern.[/B] I am concerned that if I change my over skimming of the past. That I might drastically increase the waste levels in my tank, and cause a bad algae problem. [U][B]So I should be careful, to adjust the WET skimming slowly[/B][/U], during this nutrient level increase that is doing wonders for my Starved SPS corals. Especially with a new fish coming out of quarantine in a few days.
I know this thread started on the topic of Higher Calcium, related to my poor tank progress over many months.
It obviously has become kind of a Tank Thread, which has helped me greatly identify my poor nutrient issue.
I'll start up a proper tank thread at some point, but for now will continue to resolve my two other issues (lighting, and Nutrient Export via my skimmer), since I have some good knowledgeable folks providing me excellent advice here.
Again Many Thanks to everyone for steering me right. I simply can't believe the changes that are happening.
Even the paper white Digitatis SPS is showing pink color recover today. WOW, I thought is was near death!
I know with increasing nutrients and adding fish, my happy journey could become sourer with nutrient related issues like Algae & Cyano.
Even with my pure increase to 2-3x higher feeding, my Nitrate remains 0.1, and Phosphate 0, so I think I do have a good nutrient export setup.
So my next tackle is my skimmer, which has been unstable and over skimming (Wet). I'm sure it's probably a factor contributing to my super low nutrient levels.
Not a problem in the long run (as nutrients go up), but I need to tune it properly.
As I mentioned it's WET skimming, inconsistently (EVEN AT LOWEST SETTING). Does nothings, then goes crazy while I'm not watching.
So I've been watching with my DOUBLE web Cam setup.
With my 10 Minute snapshots 24/7 over last few days as show below. I've been able to eliminate that it's not my Diamond Watch Goby, stirring up the sand.
What was really cools watching these Night Vision time lapses is how busy the clean up crew is during the night, and how much the snails cover.
So I added the Cheap clock in the background to see if it happens at a certain time of day. Still waiting for more proof.
However what made it difficult to figure out, is the skimmer cup would fill up, bubbling out of control, returning waste back into the sump.
I couldn't tell when bursts stop, since skim cycles never completed with dumps into sump.
So today, I drilled a drain into the cup. I know from other threads it's dangerous to have a open drain.
Especially with my Auto Top up system, that is a 2 GAL reservoir, backed up by a endless RO supply. (yes I could limit this, but not the issue I want to solve). Also, I do replace the large wet skim with equivalent fresh Salt water to maintain salinity.
So I had it drain into a bucket. However that bucket filled up quickly, and spilled on the floor. Glad I was around to stop that!!
So my current modified DRAIN setup is "The BUCKET" is in sump, so when it fills up, it will spill back into sump, limiting the over skim.
This will allow me to watch longer periods, and be safe. While I tune my skimmer and sump setups (including Return pump valve, for flow).
Some pics below of SUMP compares for those that have advice to offer:
What conditions cause one skimmer to act unstable, while another not?.
- See below my two skimmers (exactly the same EuroReef).
- See below sump setups (almost exactly the same).
- My 65 Gal SPS tank which is over skimming has fish.
- My other 90 Gal LPS tank is fish free, but skims dry, with only corals feeding and clean up crew.
The primary big difference between the two TANKS is Return flow:
- 65 Gal SPS tank has a Mag 9.5 Pump at 3ft (740 Gal/Hr).
- 90 Gal LPS tank has a Mag 18 at 14ft (approx. 500 Gal/Hr)
Could that difference be the reason? ( I have a valve to trim return).
90 LPS TANK SUMP Setup (Stable Skimmer)
http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah74/wbrejnia/SkimmerKIT_zpszwa1r2ci.jpg[~original/IMG]
[B]Could the tuning on this EuroReef Skimmer be super senstive, and I need to find the sweet spot? (I doubt it)[/B]
(Other EuroReef skimmer isn't like that). Both are cleaned properly, including pumps and venturi's.
[B][COLOR="Blue"]Anyone have any idea's or experience why a skimmer would sit skimming almost nothing, then have bursts certain times of day? [/COLOR][/B]
[B]I will end this post on one note of concern.[/B] I am concerned that if I change my over skimming of the past. That I might drastically increase the waste levels in my tank, and cause a bad algae problem. [U][B]So I should be careful, to adjust the WET skimming slowly[/B][/U], during this nutrient level increase that is doing wonders for my Starved SPS corals. Especially with a new fish coming out of quarantine in a few days.
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swk
New member
Please keep in mind that an increase in nutrients may take months to accumulate enough to show up on test kits.
I suffered from the same mistakes of a too clean sps setup after reading all the ulns garbage on the forums as a new guy. After pulling gfo and feeding copious amount of food it took about 3 months for a big change in numbers to happen. Even then I overshot what I was looking to do and had to dial things back a bit.
I suffered from the same mistakes of a too clean sps setup after reading all the ulns garbage on the forums as a new guy. After pulling gfo and feeding copious amount of food it took about 3 months for a big change in numbers to happen. Even then I overshot what I was looking to do and had to dial things back a bit.
swk
New member
I never have issue with nitrate. I'm convinced Acropora utilize it somehow as I never can get it above 2.5ppm. I wish I could get higher no3 levels, but I just can't.
My phosphate rose quite a bit, up to .15 at the highest and it was a little higher than I was picturing going, but the corals never looked better and, while yes, the tank did have some algae, nothing was unmanageable.
I never added back gfo and I doubt I ever will. What I did was beef up my cuc by quite a bit. A varied and large cuc can make short work of most high nutrient setups. What I did was stop the nightly additions of oyster feast and roti feast. I also stopped adding aminos. After a month or so of this routine phosphate settled around .07-.1 which I'm totally good with.
Wally.B
Active member
Thanks for the insight. Really appreciate it.
I too am dosing Oster (1/2 t nightly), amino's nightly (Acro Power 15ml weekly), PolypBooster (5 drop daily), plus whatever ZeoVit Coral Vitalizer has (2 drops).
Plus the 3x daily feeding of fish.
I am scratching my head wondering where all these nutrient are going, and not affecting NO3 level.
- Building up somewhere (like sandbed)
- Being take out by my over Skimming and weekly (small) carbon baggie changes.
I will continue for a while since at this point they are healing elixirs for damage done my low-nutrients, and new fish are not yet in tank.
As soon as I see any significant move on Nitrate, or Phosphate, that will be my early warning, to start cutting back ahead of time.
Did you go through any brown and hair algae blooms that faded over time? I am seeing hints right now. Nothing significant. And things change each day. (More glass cleaning, and circulation pump cover cleanings needed)
I too am dosing Oster (1/2 t nightly), amino's nightly (Acro Power 15ml weekly), PolypBooster (5 drop daily), plus whatever ZeoVit Coral Vitalizer has (2 drops).
Plus the 3x daily feeding of fish.
I am scratching my head wondering where all these nutrient are going, and not affecting NO3 level.
- Building up somewhere (like sandbed)
- Being take out by my over Skimming and weekly (small) carbon baggie changes.
I will continue for a while since at this point they are healing elixirs for damage done my low-nutrients, and new fish are not yet in tank.
As soon as I see any significant move on Nitrate, or Phosphate, that will be my early warning, to start cutting back ahead of time.
Did you go through any brown and hair algae blooms that faded over time? I am seeing hints right now. Nothing significant. And things change each day. (More glass cleaning, and circulation pump cover cleanings needed)
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DivingTheWorld
Active member
Regarding your skimmer overflow and overflowing the bucket and or reducing your salinity too much, you might want to look into an Auto Waste Collector. I use the Reef Octopus 6" Auto Waste Collector. It's an awesome invention which holds 15 cups before shutting off the skimmer.
Wally.B
Active member
Great product for those that don't have a controller. Or want a carbon filter to reduce smell.
I just added a Flair VIP1000-H20 liquid sensor ($15) to my bucket, and wired to a spare I/O input on my Apex. Sends emails as well when bucket gets near full.
This will allow me to go on vacations with less worries. With the WIFI Web Cam, and access to Apex via Neptune Fusion, I'm fully covered to call a buddy to drop by and take care of any issue. (I still like the bucket in the SUMP. Safer for any overflows.). Might find a nicer/smaller container for the long run.
BTW. I just figured out my skimmer issue. Appears the collector cup is just a little too small for my daily skim. I was trying to tune the skimmer and was going over and under. Now I have it tuned just right and I know exactly how much Salt Water to top up to keep salinity stable.
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Wally.B
Active member
Angel Fish added.(She has adapted very quickly).
This is my new processing nutrient Factory. Should be ok for a 65 Gallon, as they get bigger.
Next is Clown Fish, and were done. (You can see the colors showing early signs of color, even with this low light shot)
This is my new processing nutrient Factory. Should be ok for a 65 Gallon, as they get bigger.
Next is Clown Fish, and were done. (You can see the colors showing early signs of color, even with this low light shot)
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