Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)

I love the comparison pics. Observing and coming up with objective progress indicators is one of the hardest things to do since it helps if no tinkering is done in between observations. :hmm1:
 
The tank look more healthy now. It's not just the corals, if you look at the rocks you can even see an improvement in the amount of coralline.

Rather than lowering the lights, I would raise your photoperiod. I've found its much easier to burn corals with lights to close, and slowly increasing photoperiod to 8 hours will have the same overall effect (providing more light with which to grow) while not having as much risk of burning.

For the coral that appears to be dying at the base, you have a couple options. First, you could leave it as it is and hope that it recovers. Like previously mentioned, a healthy coral will not allow things to grow on it. You could also frag it and cut the dead part off. That might work as well.

Other than that, I would stick with things as they are for the next month at least. Give things time to get adjusted and you will probably be REALLY surprised with the growth in a few months. Remember, these corals have been in this low nutrient system for a year now, so it will take a while for them to get fully turned around. Make sure you stay on top of testing/dosing Alk/Ca/Mag. As things start growing you will be really surprised by how much consumption changes.
 
Another Coral CloseUp Health Check (Plus a Mystery Solved):

Back on May 18th, I got excited seeing this Coral Polyping that never Polyped since I bought it, a long time ago.

Here is a comparison today.
Coral1-2015-06-06_zpsbetkicrj.jpg~original


BTW. "I JUST SOVLED" the INCONSISTANT Wet OVER Skimming mystery. (Some bad-luck/good-luck helped me solve this).

I would have never guessed in a thousand years what was causing it. :headwally:


(This is related to an Earlier Post in this Thread where I identified this problem)



I'll give some clues, over next few posts, and see if anyone can guess the cause.

I'll tell you what I & others thought it might have been, but it wasn't.

In a future post, I'll explain the cause.

- It wasn't my skimmer settings (since two identical skimmers were acting differently). This skimmer was Super Wet Skimming at lowest setting (but inconstantly)
- It wasn't my Diamond Watch Goby stirring up the Sand Bed.
- It wasn't that the skimmer was too high or too low in the sump.
- It wasn't the skimmer calcifying (ie. venturi, Pump, air tube), and needed cleaning.
- It wasn't my return pump high flow rate.
- It wasn't directly related to my skimmer over skimming WET and causing the skimmer cup to overflow and dump back into my tank (thus needing the SKIM overflow Bucket)

CLUE #1: My "Two Camera" time lapse photo's could have solved this, but One Camera was not zoomed in/pointed at the right place.

.... This will kill some time, till next Month's "Full Tank" Photo Comparison. (Unless someone Guesses Correctly, Quickly :celeb3:).
 
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To avoid guesses quoting previous post, and including all clues, photos, repeatedly.
Posting the question again.

Can anyone guess "Why my Skimmer was Inconsistantly WET Skimming, daily?"
 
Well, that really really good progress. :beer:

As to the skimmer: I'm not a good detective; but my guesses are: air intake line getting caught on something or your auto top off refilling the level and the raise causing an overflow? Dont laugh, I am probably way off! :D

But seriously, thats great recovery. Keep up the good work.
 
Just a couple things I would like to add:

1) Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium do have level ratios that are best to maintain. Calcium and alkalinity are used by coral in a chemical reaction so if one is more readily available than the other, i.e. higher calcium to alkalinity ratio, then the other becomes the limiting reagent in the reaction, this is not going to hurt anything but the excess chemical is wasted and does increase the chance of abiotic calcium carbonate precipitation. As for magnesium, it is paramount that it is at or above the ratio, mentioned earlier I believe as 15x all and 3x cacl, to the other parameters as it interferes with the precipitation of abiotic calcium carbonate and therefore allows you to keep your levels of calcium and alkalinity more stable/available. Abiotic calcium carbonate occurs more quickly in the presence of heat as it pushes the reaction forward so maintaining proper levels therefore extends the life of you equipment which are a source of direct heat inside your tank.

2) Love the reef nutrition food and oyster feast is great stuff but roti feast is more ideal for sps, this is from my first hand experience but more importantly per reef nutritions own research. Both would work great too.

3) I am not all in on adding fish to increase a nutrient load I feel that all too often people assume that coral have no effect on bio-load when in fact with acropower, roti feast, and the like you can directly feed coral instead of indirectly via fish waste. I have seen some great sps tanks with little or no fish at all.

4) The 3 issues I saw when reading from the beginning of this thread
a) Too little feeding, much of coral coloration comes from proteins (a good read on this is Dana Riddles multi-part article on coral coloration in advanced aquarist) and proteins are long chains of amino acids formed by the cell. Therefor, while energy from light might help in the production of these proteins the building blocks must also be available for production of these proteins (very oversimplified but you get the idea). One theory I have on corals is that while we like to say that in the wild corals are in ULN environments we neglect to recognize that they are in food rich environments.
b) The lighting seemed off, while your halides will grow corals just fine by themselves I am a proponent of having at least an 8 hour photoperiod as I believe a day and night cycle regulates the tank (adds stability) in a number of ways. Seems you have addressed this with VHO and LEDs.
c) The flow just doesn't look right to me. The height and direction of the powerheads just looks off. Maybe it's just me.

A final note: To me there is a substantial lack of coralline algae for a one year old tank, this may be due to your issues with changing mag, alk, and calc but who knows. It could be related to flow based on personal experience I feel this can have some effect. I didn't see what salt you used but I am a huge proponent of using a quality salt in order to help maintain stable trace elements as well.
 
I had a leaf get caught in my skimmer intake last fall (it's run outside) which caused all kinds of overflow problems. That shouldn't happen again ... I hope... So my guess is the air intake line getting clogged.
 
Some good guesses. All possible, but not cause.

CLUE #2

-It has nothing to do with the actual skimmer. It was and is running fine.
- Auto top off was leveling properly to some degree, but there was something wrong.
- You should understand that I have two auto top offs, one for each tank (both run off the same RO reservoir, that fill automatically via a float valve). A daily inconsistent event was happening under a certain condition (probably a few times a day, everyday).
 
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Why not just come out and say? My skimmer some times goes crazy for no reason so why not just I did this or that and thats what it was
 
Why not just come out and say? My skimmer some times goes crazy for no reason so why not just I did this or that and thats what it was

This is more fun. Actually the reason is I like to document properly and haven't had time. Not easy to explain with just words.

It took me over a month to figure out and it was only by bad luck that my tunze osomolator broke (pump) and good luck that I was watching my sump at the right moment.

I will post the answer later tonight, but want to properly explain with some photo's and a replication of the event.

It won't apply to anyone without two tank sumps running on one top up reservoir.
 
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Inconsistent WET Over Skimming Solved: (Read carefully. To fully understand this explaination)

Apologize for the delay posting my Skimmer Mystery solution. I didn't want to jump to a conclusion and then find out that I was wrong.

So now it's been a few of days and there have been no more over skimming events. So I am confident I've identified and resolved the issue.

I am still working to tune my skimmer, to find the optimal skimming that I want. However it's under control.

So in a nutshell (I'm 99% sure) the over skimming in my SPS tank was being caused by my Auto top up Reservoir.

As shown below my Auto Top Up Reservoir tops up both my tanks.
The reservoir auto fills from my RO system, and stops filling when the float value triggers.
2015-06-08_2-08-00_zpspiu70jmf.jpg~original

Yes, this is dangerous since the RO supply is unlimited, but my setup has been running reliably for years.
This is due to the fact that the Auto Tops are run by two seprate Tunze Osomolators.
Tunze_zpsbysjbols.jpg~original


(The Tunze controller has time limit feature, to stop topping up after a certain period of continuous running.).

Also (as per proper setup) I have placed reservoir to be at a level, that won't cause a siphoning off (endless RO), into both sumps.
(ie the Reservoir is lower than the sump topup tubing).


So let me get to the point.

One of the Tunze pumps failed last week, (not Completely. It would run a bit and sputter out, then after a break, run again and sputter out).
TunzePump_zps25fvei3q.jpg~original

This may have happened a while ago, but I never noticed.

While I was trying to fix the pump (cleaning it and testing it).
I noticed my skimmer go nuts each time at top up occured.

I thought it may have been the jet of TOPUP water was stirring up some sediment at the bottom of my SPS tank Sump.

However I knew I had dumped both RO and Salt water with a bucket, and that was more rough/aggressive (stirring up sediment worse)
So it got me investigating.

I thought it could be that I never cleaned the RO reservoir container for ages, and it was slimy inside. (However why was it not doing this to my other sump).

So I cleaned it, and did another test.
This time the Skimmer did not go crazy.

Had I walked away thinking I solved the problem (cleaning the slimy RO reservoir).
I WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD WRONG.

The problem would have come back. Maybe quickly, maybe a bit longer.

IT WAS SOMETHING ELSE.


Just by luck, I caught an event happening in my OTHER SUMP.
TOPUPTUBE_zpsjm6aoryy.jpg~original


I saw water reverse siphoning back into the RO Water Reservoir.

I never would have noticed, clear water going backwards. But by luck an air bubble entered the translucent tube, and that is what caught my attention.

Essentially it was skimming surface water back into the RO Reservoir.
Thus filling up my PURE RO Reservoir with the other tank's Sump water.


And that contaminated RO water ( With water from my other tank ), was causing my other Skimmer to over react !!!!
It wasn't causing this for my other skimmer, since same type of water.

It gets a bit more complicate to explain, but here is a summary.

- That RO Top Up tube was always above the sump water level to avoid reverse siphoning.
- But a while back I raised the level sensor to increase the amount of water in the sump.
- Either that or a unsecure tube, put the tube under water.


- Also, just one TOP up happening (tank A or B) WOULD NOT cause this reverse siphon, since the RO supply would keep up to keep water levels match.

- But when Tank A needed a TOP up, Shortly after Tank B needed a TOP the RO supply was not quick enough, and reservoir level lowered.
- Then the reverse siphon happened.
- So based on the semi-random evaporation rates of both tanks, there was an reverse siphon when the evaporations aligned perfectly.
(more reverse siphoning, when RO reservoir lower [ie both tanks needing a top up at the same or close proximity] )
- Not sure how often this TOP UP line up happened, but it happened daily, thus the reason for my inconsistent OVER WET SKIMMING.


- I also think there was another factor involved here.
- The failing weak pump, which would sputter out, and not top up completely.
- Thus causing mini-incomplete top ups.
- Thus mini-contaminated top ups. Thus mini over skims (inconsistently).

- THIS WAS HARD TO CATCH as you can imagine.

So that's it.

Crazy eh :headwalls:?

(( ( I should probably post this in another thread, to help some other reefer with a similar issue ) ))
 
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I've actually had this happen with a single tank/sump. What would happen is the topup would fill the tank, then the tank would syphon back and it would fill again. Not as bad as what you had but it was causing the topup to over work.

From that point on I always made sure that my topup dripped into my sump and that the line was not submerged.

Whiskey
 
yep i always keep my line above the water so 1 i can hear it when it runs and no way it can back flow in to ro tank
 
Maybe the Siphoning off the Other tank is not the mystery solution/cause.

When I go back through past pictures. The RO line was above water, when I had inconsistent skimming.

If you look at May 27th post. The line under water was a dead line from a Kalk reactor not hooked up to reactor anymore.

So the RO line was above water, and no siphoning could happen.
And back before and after May 27th I had the inconsistent skimming problem.

We'll see when I get my replacement Top Up pump, if the issue comes back. Right now I'm topping up manually by bucket.

The only other recent change I made to stop the over skimming, is I added a baffled between the tank overflow output, and the skimmer, to prevent splash bubbles from entering the skimmer pump input.
Especially when the sock got puggled up and overflowed over the top. As in the picture below.

Baffle_zpsuhssybgm.jpg~original


Easy to prove. I can remove the baffle and see what happens.

This is puzzling. Was it actually the slimy bucket? Or a combination of things?

Don't care. Wet Over Skim Issue is solved.

Time to get back to getting these corals to grow.....
 
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Anything to worry about with this Algae starting on rocks?

Photo Period has been slowly raised to 6 hrs, 15 mins.

As someone put in a previous post, "my rock looked sterile", during my too low nutrient level period.

So now nutrients are up and there is a price to pay. Algae.

My feeding has been consitant, both for fish feeding and nightly coral feeding.

I have increased clean up crew with Blue legged crabs, snails, and just recently, one Medium Mexican Turbo Snail.

So from these Algae pictures below (under Full MH Lighting), is the anything to be concerned about?

2015-06-11_Algae1_zpstitzxorw.jpg~original


2015-06-11_Algae3_zpsyeswlc9n.jpg~original


EVEN SOME MACRO Algae (as below). I've had this in the past. I just plug it, to keep under control.
MacroAlge_zps7cizrh2y.jpg~original



2015-06-11_Algae2_zps4ff36ed1.jpg~original


Is this algae with bubbles Cyano?


The algae growth is slow, and not rampant in any way. Appears on side and undersides of rocks.

FROM A DISTANCE, the Tank looks like this right now (White LED Lighting).
A bit of Algae everywhere. (Yes, 2 new Frags, to see how they do)


In my opinion these coral are kind of browing. (but under actinic, they do glow, and polyp nicely).
2015-06-11-LEDonly_zpsnp24jsin.jpg~original


Should I just continue feeding as I am and be patient?
 
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Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)

Yup carry on. I can barely even see much algae to be honest

What are your test kits saying? I would guess not much change. Let the cuc do their thing. Again, the tank may go through a bit if an ugly phase until the tank reaches some state of equilibrium. Totally normal
 
That does look like cyano. Perhaps consider adding a powerhead or swapping out one of the smaller powerheads for a larger? When you say the Koralias are cycled, does that mean that only one is on at a time? If so, then they basically only count as one when calculating turnover and my math makes your system come out somewhere around 41x which is a little low.

For an example in my 180g (6'x2'x2') I have a Dart running the return, 3xMP40 and a Tunze (6095? Cant remember). I have a decent amount of flow, but I really want to change out the Tunze for another MP40 or maybe a MP60. That comes out to somewhere around 70x turnover in the display, and I can tell that I still could use more in the middle of the tank.
 
That does look like cyano. Perhaps consider adding a powerhead or swapping out one of the smaller powerheads for a larger? When you say the Koralias are cycled, does that mean that only one is on at a time? If so, then they basically only count as one when calculating turnover and my math makes your system come out somewhere around 41x which is a little low.

For an example in my 180g (6'x2'x2') I have a Dart running the return, 3xMP40 and a Tunze (6095? Cant remember). I have a decent amount of flow, but I really want to change out the Tunze for another MP40 or maybe a MP60. That comes out to somewhere around 70x turnover in the display, and I can tell that I still could use more in the middle of the tank.

Yes, the Koralias turn on and off. (I do this to change the flow patterns, (Left Swirl, right swirl, together)

But I did add the Maxspect Gyre XF150 running at 60%, so plenty of circulation and I could crank it up higher.

It is running in alternating mode, to distribute the circulation.
However Setting Gyre over 80% , and things start getting a little rough for the fish.

In non alternating mode, the tank is a whirlwind, and I feel sorry for the fish.

If needed, I could run aggressive, and cycle the Gyre on/off, giving fish hourly breaks.

I turn off Gyre overnight (so fish can sleep)


Overall Circulation pumps may need some position/power adjustments. (There are no dead spots, just may need more power)
When I have time to watch, I'll make adjustments. What I do is put a drop of Coral snow, to see the circulation patterns.
 
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Ahh, the gyre should help with the flow. I know some experienced people are in each camp, but I am of the opinion that it's not beneficial, and IMO probably harmful to turn the pumps down at night. On the reef, the currents don't calm down at night, the waves do. That doesn't mean there is less flow, just less visible on the surface. On the reef, the fish shelter in the rocks where there is a microclimate of lower flow. IMO the benefits of having full flow all night are pretty substantial, and the only arguments I have heard against is are the fish sleeping and power savings.

Does your CUC just consist of the Mexican Turbos and Hermits? I am a really big fan of Astera snails and I know some people don't like them but I also like emerald crabs as long as you don't get to many. I have seen mine pick at a polyp or two, but I have never actually seen any damage.
 
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