Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)

[Wally.B]

Thanks for the encouragement to keep posting updates. (Worth the effort if someone is reading them).

And Big Thanks to everyone pointing out my Low Nutrient problem. ( I actually wasted months watching corals fade, one by one ).

Special Update: (Some Comparison Close Up Photos, before and after changes):

First want to note. Something is changing with chemistry Load.

My Alk & Calc is dropping (a little) with the dosing that I have been doing for last 3 months to keep stable.
(Never needed to increase dosing). No kidding, nothing was growing to use up more.

I'm working on increasing dosing to stabilize.
Not much, however it appears the corals are needing more A/B for the first time.

I hope this means a sign of growth to come.

It's not the "wet skimming/RO TopUp" that is lowering Alk, since I am replacing skim with (Alk/Calc) matched Salt Water.
I actually like the "bucket skimmer-cup-overflow" thing.
It's like doing mini water changes throughout the week, but not removing good water (Instead nasty "skimmage water").

Here is a comparison of my _______ Coral.
Perhaps someone can give me a name.

I'm not great with Coral names, since I could only identify 3 kinds in my tank (in the past).
The "Brown Coral", the "Pale Coral" and the "Bleached White Coral".

May 9th is approx. when I made first changes, to temp. Started feeding fish more and corals nightly fed OysterFeast.

May 29th could be considered the starting point of a new fish (the Angel).

For reference (in between, May 17th, was the start of additives, CB, CV)

The last two photo's above are under same lighting, and same camera settings.

(Pardon the blury one, it's all I could find with matched setting to compare properly).

Since things are improving, I'm going to take an top down photo of my tank, which I've never done before. Will help compare things in the future.
I understand I may need a box with a glass bottom get a clear shot.






I'll end this post with one more comparison....

BTW, I am not altering my images with any photo Software.
Shots are with a Canon Rebel SL1 that I am still learning how to use.
Plus I store my Photo's by Lighting (MH Shot, MH+VHO Shots, LED Shots) and always shoot 400 ISO. To ensure like to like comparisons.

I also take Photos a few times a week, so someday, if I get growth, I'll stitch them together a post a time lapse movie on YouTube.

As suggested by (brad65ford) in a previous post.
Once I get all my corals back to good colors & Health.
I'll start working on growth. (Probably start lowering lights and increasing PhotoPeriod)

Till next update. Wally

 

[markalot]

Awesome Wally, great documentation.

 

[Mr V]

That is awesome! I am too struggle with nutrient in my tank. Do you still have GFO or BioPellets?

 

[sahin]

That's great progress. :thumbsup:

 

[Myka]

Awesome!

 

[Peter Eichler]

Looks like they're making a nice comeback, congrats!

 

[Wally.B]

That is awesome! I am too struggle with nutrient in my tank. Do you still have GFO or BioPellets?

Yes I am running GFO. Not running any BioPellets.

I'll summarize my "CURRENT" setup in to save time digging through this thread.

65 Gal (1" Sand Bottom) Tank

• Controlled by Apex for PH, Pump Controls, Flood Sensors, Temp, on UPS for critical components only

LIGHTING

• 2x 250W MH (Giesemann MegaChrome Coral) 14k Bulbs (Height 14", PhotoPeriod 5hrs 45mins)

• 1x VHO Actnic Bulb (approx. 6 hours)

• 1x RGB 5050 LED-homemade strip light (Evenings)

TANK CIRCULATION

• 2x Hydro Hydor Koralia (1500 GPH)

• 1x Tunze NanoStream (476 GPH)

• Maxspect Gyre X-150 (recent add)

SUMP

• Rubbermaid Tub, 15 Gal Water

• Skimmer (EuroReef 0- Sedra KSP 5000 Pinwheel)

• Return Pump Mag 9.5 (740 GAL/Hr), To SeaSwirl

• GFO - PhosBan 150 Reactor (RowaPhos Media - Never changed)

• Baggie of Carbon - Changed Monthly

• Mini CopePod Refugium

TANK FEEDING

• Fish (4 times daily: 1xPellets, 1xFlake, 2xFrozen Brine Shrimp)

• Fish (Weekly: Live Tigger CopePods from FARM fed by PhytoFeast)

• Corals (Daily: 5 drops Polyp Booster, 2 drop Coral Vitalizer)

• Corals (Nightly: 1/2 t OsyterFeast)

• Corals (Spread Across Week: 10 ml AcroPower)

WATER

• ALK(8.5), CALC(425), MAG(1410)

• NO3 (0.2ppm) via Salfert Kit, PO4 (0.00) via Hanna

• A/B Dosing Via Apex (Randy's A/B Formula)

• Magnesium: Manual Dosing (ESC B-IONIC)

• Tunze Auto Top up (RO, DI) (TDS 0.0ppm)

• Salt:Tropic Marine (Pro), Water Changed (Every 2 weeks: 5GAL)

• Wet Skim: Salt Water Replacement (Every 2-3 days)

FISH

• Mandarin Goby

• Yellow Tang

• Blue/Green Chromis

• Yellow Breast Angel

 

[sahin]

Thanks for the summary; that really helps. :thumbsup: Cant wait to see more coral comparisons in the next few weeks.

 

[snipersps]

Wow a lot of good info on this thread.

 

[Wally.B]

Reality Check Time:

I don't want the last Photo's to give anyone the impression that my Color Journey is over. Far from it.

Although, I'm really happy with the change in direction (Coloring up vs Fading before), not all corals have as drastically recovered from the Low Nutrient Starvation.
Perhaps it the type of coral. Perhaps they took the Low Nutrient hit harder. So they will just take more time.

This Coral has recovered a bit (From original decline), Due my positive adjustments, but just a bit.
It was at one point. Paper white.

Also an interesting thing I noticed about this coral (below) as it started recovering from Very Pale (the backside was taking longer).

I believe the reason may be that I have my lighting setup for Optimal Front Viewing,
so Less PARS at the back (Due to no VHO actinic lighting). As seen below.

That should be a simple fix. My Last VHO Bulb is actually end of life anyway, but the Ballast can handle 2x T5.
I have spare T5 for my other tank (T5/LED Tank) so will replace the VHO with 2 T5's on either side of MH fixture.

Another adjustment I'm planning to take (tired of feeding 4x daily, and missing feedings on busy weekends.),
is I'm throwing in a couple of cheap AutoFeeders that I've used for vacations. For the Pellets and Flakes.

I will be posting an update on my Skimming technique changes soon. RO Evaporation Top UP combined with WET Skim Replacement,
to keep Salinity stable, and make mini water changes between regular water changes.
....This came about, when I added the Skimmer Cup Overflow Reservior Bucket. (LOVE IT!!)

And while your waiting for that post, and need some to read. Read this thread I started
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2503404
Yes, I had a pretty bad accident a couple weekends ago with this tank. Just before it started Color recovering.
Didn't want to mention it on this thread. Since I recovered.
(Made me understand that a Alk Spike can be Managed, if reaction is fast, contrary to the advice I was given while panicking)
** ALWAYS have spare Salt & RO Water handy, to do Emergency water changes **

Till next time.

Wally

 

[magnoliarichj]

Amino acids excell growth. Period.

 

[Myka]

Amino acids excell growth. Period.

Just to play devil's advocate... Not if you have high PO4, or poor lighting.

GFO - PhosBan 150 Reactor (RowaPhos Media - Never changed)
[/LIST]

If you never change it, why have it? If PO4 is undetectable there is no reason even have it running. I know some people claim iron leeching from GFO fueling algae and other issues. I'm not sure I buy into that, but for you there's no harm in removing it.

 

[Wally.B]

If you never change it, why have it? If PO4 is undetectable there is no reason even have it running. I know some people claim iron leeching from GFO fueling algae and other issues. I'm not sure I buy into that, but for you there's no harm in removing it.

I originally put the GFO into my system (as a Safety Net) since I was concerned about getting high Phosphates (leading to Algae).
Of course P04 never materialized, so you are correct.
I should remove the reactor and have it on standby (or just run my Carbon in it).

Maybe I'll actually get a low PO4 reading and justify my Hanna test kit purchase, which has been till now kind of useless to see a 0.00 show up each time.

 

[ReefWreak]

Great write up on your journey. I'm glad you feel like you're working towards a positive change in your tank.

A question you brought up, of where is all of the nitrate going, I still worry (a little bit) about the sand bed or rocks becoming nitrate/phosphate sinks, and waiting until the tank hits a snag with some problem that causes algae, then all of that stored NO3/PO4 fuels an explosive growth. I guess as long as you're on top of the tank all the time, then you should be okay because you won't hit too many surprises.

When I started my first nano, it was all about how much nutrient export you could do. In my current SPS nano cube, I have a (largely ineffective) skimmer, but generally no algae, no nutrient control, no GFO, and my colors are great and acropora are happy and growing nicely, so there's definitely something to moderate feeding and not over skimming.

I think the real trick is getting the tank into the "biological comfort zone" where the tank can quickly break down foods and you're not fueling/battling algae. It's a good place to be, I think hitting that is the trick, then you can can start getting more careless, or just more carefully increasing waste/decreasing waste export. Glad you're there!

 

[Wally.B]

Quick question from a SPS tank newbie.

Due to my too low nutrients, zeuro PO4 and zero NO3, I guess I was lucky to not have any algae on rocks for over a year. Sure a bit if build up on pumps when not cleaned frequently enough. Easily removed by a quick clean (contained). I dis also have slight algae blooms on underside of rocks(low light areas) that cycled and dissaperared.

Now I that I am ramping up my nutrients and repeating the benefits if healthier and more colorful corals. I for the first time n a year am seeing spots of green hair like algae appearing on rocks. PO4 still zero, NO3 still 0.1.

IS THIS Algae appearing on rocks OK?
Nothing on or near the SPS corals.

I hope thus is Part if a cycle as bacteria needs to ramp up.

I worry since I have read that SPS corals can be damaged by algae (SUFFACATED) especially by green hair algae.

Any comments? Advice?

Should I cut back on all feeding a bit?

Continue with the aggressive fish feeding, but stop or slow down the Amino's or osyter feast nighlty coral feeding to stop the tiny bit of algae starting on rocks before it gets out of control?

Prune clean the rocks just like I do the pumps?

Really worried, but don't want to stop the positive effects of feeding for the corals sake.

 

[swk]

I wouldn't be too concerned. Healthy corals will not allow algae to grow on healthy tissue

Anytime you upset the balance of a reef tank by introducing more nutrients I have found the tank goes through a bit of an ugly phase until a new balance is achieved. Maybe increase you cuc numbers while things are reacting to the changes you're making.

 

[sahin]

Agree with above two posters. I don't use GFO. I'm increasing the food input into my tank. There is some algae. However, I deal with it using the clean up crew. If it starts to get too bad,,then cut back slightly by all means.

 

[Wally.B]

​

1 Month Comparison Checkup (Increase lighting intensity time, yet?):

Below is a comparison of Today (June 5th), to approx one month ago.

My Photo Period is now at 6 hrs.

The circled Coral, it going to take ages to color up. On right underside it's kind of rotting, or going black. Algae creeping it, so must be dead parts.
Should I just frag it, and save the good parts?

The other corals are progressing slowly, but hard to say if growing properly, since only a month. If you compare closely, there is encrusting going on (some corals) within that month period.

Also, just noticed from Photo compare that Nutrients are helping to also color up the rocks (Coraline, which you can see on the overflow box).

Anyone vote that I'm ok for coral Health & Colors enough to start lowering lights slowly from 13". To push growth a bit?

Or stay put for a while longer? Another month.

The lighting of these two compare shots is Pure Cheepo 5050 White LED. No actnics, or MH lights.
Thus the reason you don't see enhanced greens, and blues.

[CLEAN UP CREW increase: I did add 5 small blue legged hermits, to control the algae last week]

I have 3 choices:

A) Continue increasing Photo Period slowly
B) Lower MH lights a bit
C) Stay Put and watch another month.

I've decided not to add anymore fish at this point. Let the small angel grow.
PLUS. I can control my Fish and Coral feeding quantities. Harder to remove a fish.

 

[SpSChief85]

I would sit back and wait another month as painful as that sounds things seem to be getting better

 

[brad65ford]

Thanks for the encouragement to keep posting updates. (Worth the effort if someone is reading them).

And Big Thanks to everyone pointing out my Low Nutrient problem. ( I actually wasted months watching corals fade, one by one ).

Special Update: (Some Comparison Close Up Photos, before and after changes):

First want to note. Something is changing with chemistry Load.

My Alk & Calc is dropping (a little) with the dosing that I have been doing for last 3 months to keep stable.
(Never needed to increase dosing). No kidding, nothing was growing to use up more.

I'm working on increasing dosing to stabilize.
Not much, however it appears the corals are needing more A/B for the first time.

I hope this means a sign of growth to come.

It's not the "wet skimming/RO TopUp" that is lowering Alk, since I am replacing skim with (Alk/Calc) matched Salt Water.
I actually like the "bucket skimmer-cup-overflow" thing.
It's like doing mini water changes throughout the week, but not removing good water (Instead nasty "skimmage water").

Here is a comparison of my _______ Coral.
Perhaps someone can give me a name.

I'm not great with Coral names, since I could only identify 3 kinds in my tank (in the past).
The "Brown Coral", the "Pale Coral" and the "Bleached White Coral".

May 9th is approx. when I made first changes, to temp. Started feeding fish more and corals nightly fed OysterFeast.

May 29th could be considered the starting point of a new fish (the Angel).

For reference (in between, May 17th, was the start of additives, CB, CV)

The last two photo's above are under same lighting, and same camera settings.

(Pardon the blury one, it's all I could find with matched setting to compare properly).

Since things are improving, I'm going to take an top down photo of my tank, which I've never done before. Will help compare things in the future.
I understand I may need a box with a glass bottom get a clear shot.






I'll end this post with one more comparison....

BTW, I am not altering my images with any photo Software.
Shots are with a Canon Rebel SL1 that I am still learning how to use.
Plus I store my Photo's by Lighting (MH Shot, MH+VHO Shots, LED Shots) and always shoot 400 ISO. To ensure like to like comparisons.

I also take Photos a few times a week, so someday, if I get growth, I'll stitch them together a post a time lapse movie on YouTube.

As suggested by (brad65ford) in a previous post.
Once I get all my corals back to good colors & Health.
I'll start working on growth. (Probably start lowering lights and increasing PhotoPeriod)

Till next update. Wally

Awesome Wally, it's always nice to be heard regarding advice with reefing, thank you for mentioning my name. Glad things moving in the right direction.

Regarding now seeing algae ... Well that means your tank is doing good , I'm assuming your seeing coralline algae too now on the rocks and glass? If you want to change things try counting all your different corals and see if your number of health corals out number your unhealthy corals if you have more health coral don't change what your doing. Change is what shock corals. Right now my system is running all sps and corals are seeing max of 150par led light my brain is telling me to increase the light since "that's the right thing to do according to every other reefer I've seen on line" but I know I'll bleach my corals.

Brad