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Me too.
house hold ammonia to kick start a nitrogen cycle
- Thread starter jimmy frag
- Start date
Me too.
If you live near an Ace hardware store, they sell something called "Ammonia Janitorial Strength Formula" It is 10% ammonium hydroxide. It is clear and no matter how much you shake it there are never any bubbles in it. As far as have been able to tell it doesn't contain anything else (presumably the rest is water). It says it contains no phosphates.
I had to start using it when I ran out of ammonium chloride which if you have the choice, I would use because the ammonium hyrdoxide is on a par with sulfide gas for strong odors that will chase you out of the house. It is several orders of magnitude worse than the stuff you buy in the grocery store which always has bubbles.
It does work and I have never found it any where else.
I had to start using it when I ran out of ammonium chloride which if you have the choice, I would use because the ammonium hyrdoxide is on a par with sulfide gas for strong odors that will chase you out of the house. It is several orders of magnitude worse than the stuff you buy in the grocery store which always has bubbles.
It does work and I have never found it any where else.
Typlus5
Member
So do you add this once and forget it or do you monitor and dose daily to keep this level until the bacteria takes over and depletes the ammonia levels in a certain timeframe?
No, you first dose to 3ppm, then two days later you measure and then dose the system backup up to 3ppm. You continue this pattern throughout the entire cycling process i.e. until you can only measure nitrates in 24 hours. You can do this with our without bottled bacteria, but the first phase is a lot quicker with it.
When nitrite starts to rise which is by far the longest part of the process 6 to 10 weeks depending on the system, you are only measuring ammonia and nitrites, when both go to zero with in 24 hours, you measure nitrates. Nitrites must be at zero before measuring nitrates. When you measure nitrates at this point they will be really high and will require a massive water change if the rest of the process was done correctly.
After that you are ready to start adding fish. Whatever you do, don't turn on the lights and don't allow ammonia or nitrites to accumulate above 5ppm. This will stall the cycle cause it to take a lot longer. If this happens during the cycle, do water changes until the levels drop below 5ppm.
correction: in the early part of the cycling where you are adding ammonia when it goes to zero in the two day period, you start measuring and dosing daily up to 3ppm.
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A handy ammonia cycling calculator:
http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/AmmoniaCycling.php
Yes, you must still measure ppm to be sure.
http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/AmmoniaCycling.php
Yes, you must still measure ppm to be sure.
I'd probably just add some once and then wait. There's no way to create a useful formula for dosing ammonia into a tank. I might make sure I got a measurable amount of ammonia, say 0,5 ppm, and call it good enough. For many rock sources, adding ammonia is unnecessary due to the organic debris on the rock, but the ammonia itself can't hurt anything.
Actually, the calculator is just give some idea of how much you will adding to the system to get to a certain PPM.
I will leave the rest of this alone except to say that if you are using dry rock and sand you will need to dose throughout the process. If you are not dosing throughout the process, you will get to the end and have a relatively small bacterial base to operate with. In fact for a dry rock system, it will be nearly non-existent. For some, this may be fine because they may add a fish at a time and let the bio-filter catch up after each addition. If you don't use the slower method of adding fish, you will need the extra capacity to start with. The larger the amount of ammonia the system can process quickly the better it is for any fish coming into the system.
Public aquariums will dose to their full capacity as they will be adding very large quantities of fish to their systems within a few days from their holding and QT systems just before opening. They don't have the time for the fish at a time method.
Typlus5
Member
I used the calculator to gauge to 5ppm. I went 2 ml less (7.5 ml) and tested 2 hrs later...4 ppm. I plan on testing each day and adjust the ammonia dose accordingly every two days. I acid bath'd my pukani rock and pressure washed it thoroughly. I realize you can't get everything but it was clean and wasn't sure I'd have much organic, decaying matter. Followed up with running RO water in tank with rock through system...it stayed crystal clear. I appreciate the help, advice and knowledge.
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This would be a good example of the products not to use. The correct product will only contain 10% ammonium hydroxide and water.
I used the pukani and a lot of it, it won't contribute enough matter unwashed to contribute anything to the process, so I wouldn't worry.
I agree that a calculator can do that, but my comment was more directed to some target levels that were posted.
So, the logic behind setting a particular level at the start is so that you know when you have grown the bacteria to a certain level and now need to dose more frequently. One reason for setting the level between 3ppm and 5ppm is that that above the 5ppm level ammonia and nitrite will actually start to slow down or stop the bacterial action. Ideally, if you wanted for instance to add all or most of the plan fish population at once, you would continue cutting the time frame in half for dosing until the 3ppm was consumed through to nitrate in say an hour instead of 24 hours. This process does produce a proportion of nitrate for every proportion of ammonia added and would need to be accounted for at the end.
ReefTeacher
Member
We used to use household ammonia in the 70's when we didn't want to loose a fish to cycle (no live rock availible then). I even remember one guy claiming to take a leak in his tank. But the cycle is about more than ammonia, other forms or waste also need to be broken down. We can test for ammonia easily, but the cycle is not limited to it. If you really want a creatureless cycle, I support the fish food suggestion over ammonia. I always got another "mini-cycle" later when adding fish.
I would agree with this, but not related to the nitrogen cycle. I agree because there are many people who have zero physical filtration and not much in the way of a cleaning schedule. The food and detritus accumulate into low oxygen areas where they do not get broken down, clog the overall biofilter and the tank eventually crashes every couple years with great surprise to the hobbyist.
You will have less of mini cycle or none if you dose the ammonia throughout the cycle process and continue until you can dose 3 to 5ppm in a couple hours versus the whole 24 hours. Many people will dose once and then that's it, which is tantamount to doing nothing at all.
jimmy frag
New member
i am lost...what other forms of wast produce some thing other than ammonia that contributes to the nitrogen cycle. reef teacher please explain "But the cycle is about more than ammonia, other forms or waste also need to be broken down. We can test for ammonia easily, but the cycle is not limited to it"
jimmy frag
New member
I would agree with this, but not related to the nitrogen cycle. I agree because there are many people who have zero physical filtration and not much in the way of a cleaning schedule. The food and detritus accumulate into low oxygen areas where they do not get broken down, clog the overall biofilter and the tank eventually crashes every couple years with great surprise to the hobbyist.
Keithshay again...please explain...lol. what does this mean ?
Keithshay again...please explain...lol. what does this mean ?
I think that's fairly thin reasoning for a 3 ppm level, but it won't do any harm. In my opinion, f you want to add a large number of fish, the safest way would be to start feeding the tank enough food for the horde before adding them, or something fairly close to it. These are living systems, and they don't lend themselves to simple formulae.
Mr. Bill
Native Floridian
I respectfully disagree. Once even one dose has been converted, you have a biofilter capable of sustaining life. Maybe not much to start with, but it is there and will grow as you add livestock.
This what many people call, I believe, old tank syndrome. The general idea is that one, decomposition requires oxygen to take place and two in order for water to come in contact with the lower oxygen areas of the sand bed for denitrification there cannot be a layer of crap blocking that interaction. I think, my theory is anyway, that enough of this layer accumulates so that the top of it is producing nitrate because it is constantly accumulating and the rest is actually blocking any significant interaction between the tank water and the less oxygenated layers within the sandbed thus producing simultaneously a nitrate factory and blocking any ability for denitrification. The result being a crashed tank.
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