Ich?

[Skupples]

Hello, new around here, and to the hobby... did some reading, posted in the wrong section (newcomers) then found this sub-section,

just want to verify that I've got the ich.
overview - 14G biocube, protein skimmer, filter mod, fully loaded stock lighting. 4 coral, 2 bargon bing clowns, and 1 flame angel. 10 hours of light a day.

the spots

 

[Skupples]

uhg, why is edit broken.

Yes, I spent some time reading the over view stickies, though a catalog of pictures would be a great addition

 

[Skupples]

anyone?

 

[Spar]

sure looks like ich to me. but clowns are generally more resistant. read up on Brook just in case as this is more prone to Clowns... not a good thing if it is:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

 

[Skupples]

Thanks, I'm quickly learning that the only option is setting up a hospital tank, before ANYTHING goes into the main tank...

Might just turn the 14G Biocube into the hopsital tank, then go grab a 100G for the main tank.

I mean, i've been buying cheaper "undesirable markings" type fishes, but I guess it was ignorant to assume any of these LFS are clean enough to just drop them in.

 

[Skupples]

oh, one other thing.

when I see people mention a product not being invertebrate friendly, should I assume that includes coral?

 

[Nina51]

Thanks, I'm quickly learning that the only option is setting up a hospital tank, before ANYTHING goes into the main tank...

Might just turn the 14G Biocube into the hopsital tank, then go grab a 100G for the main tank.

I mean, i've been buying cheaper "undesirable markings" type fishes, but I guess it was ignorant to assume any of these LFS are clean enough to just drop them in.

in this thread...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474631
you said you couldn't afford another tank. you realize, don't you, that if you go out and "grab" a 100g tank to set up as a reef, very little of what you have in the way of equipment, will be enough for a 100g tank? that is, unless everything you have for your 14g is overkill.

i'm no expert but, anything not safe for inverts likely contains copper which will also kill your corals.

 

[Deinonych]

I'm not 100% sure that is ich in the pictures. The spots look more diffuse than what is normally seen with ich. You could be dealing with Brooklynella. Can you describe the fishes' behavior? Do any of the other fish in your tank show symptoms of disease?

 

[Deinonych]

oh, one other thing.

when I see people mention a product not being invertebrate friendly, should I assume that includes coral?

Yes. There are no "reef safe" medications for ich, velvet or brooklynella.

 

[Skupples]

Yes. There are no "reef safe" medications for ich, velvet or brooklynella.

less than 48 hours from first spotting, first clown is dead.

I just fed the flame & the bigger clown some brine, & they both ate like pigs.

Appearance of Clown #2 today : less spots, more splotch. Skin looking dull, & dark.

Stopped by LFS...

They had a product called "kick ich" which has in giant bold letters "SAFE FOR INVERTS & CORALS" so I figured what the hell.

and of course, fish bro dude told me to soak the brine in garlic, so I once again said what the hell, even though I've read all it does is stimulate appetite, fish munchies.

I also picked up a heater so I can normalize temps.

I honestly expect them all to be dead by Monday, but I'll try either way.

As to the Flame Angel, so far so good. I keep thinking I'm seeing white spots, but it could also be some sparkle in his translucent fins.

in this thread...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474631
you said you couldn't afford another tank. you realize, don't you, that if you go out and "grab" a 100g tank to set up as a reef, very little of what you have in the way of equipment, will be enough for a 100g tank? that is, unless everything you have for your 14g is overkill.

i'm no expert but, anything not safe for inverts likely contains copper which will also kill your corals.

Cannot afford / do not want to afford, basically the same thing for me.

I however came across an opportunity.

CEO @ work is upgrading to some ungodly 400G + tank, in his office.

His now retired 150G tank, with overkill everything is just sitting, dry, in one of the back conference rooms. What looks like a 15-20G protein skimmer, multiple pumps, current generators, and some other thing I couldn't identify, just sitting there. So, I'm going to ask him what he wants for it. He already has a MASSSSSIIIIIIVEEEEEE custom built curved tank @ his Castle, so I doubt he's going to take it home with him.

Either way, back to the fishies...

Will try to grab some more pictures, what ever it is, it no longer looks like ich.

Sorry for the scattered post, just got off of work, so I'm in brain dead mode atm.

I just swapped 10% of the water for fresh, put in a dose of this "kick ich - safe for everything" nonsense, and fed them... we shall seel :fun5:

thank you all for contributing.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Kick Ich is junk...been there, done that. Don't waste your time. The timeline from symptoms to death is too fast for ich. And based on the discoloration on the clown I'm leaning more towards brooklynella.
I would do as you suggested and turn the 14 into a QT and get the 150. You and your fish will be much happier

 

[Skupples]

removed dead clown,

inspected body under bright light. Zero spots, skin looked perfect

what the hell?

do these parasites jump ship that fast?

also, sad note... clown #2 was basically protecting his body. Or at least, seemed to be .

YAY, EDIT IS WORKING TODAY!

Inspected Angel as well as I could, he seems spot free, with nice clear eyes.

If Clown #2 dies, I think the Angel will end up living by him/her/itself.

Kick Ich is junk...been there, done that. Don't waste your time. The timeline from symptoms to death is too fast for ich. And based on the discoloration on the clown I'm leaning more towards brooklynella.
I would do as you suggested and turn the 14 into a QT and get the 150. You and your fish will be much happier

figured as much. Seems most LFS attempt to pedal junk, kinda like a doctor... keep em' coming back!

I really thought there would be better shops down here. I mean, it's Miami/Fort Lauderdale. There's a Fish Tank convention somewhere every other week,.

The water at this Exotic Aquatic (or is it Aquatic Exotic?) is a bit scary as well. They have a communal delivery system, which is self service. The good news is, the water someone might dump, washes to outside the store.

 

[Deinonych]

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to have long term success in this hobby, you need to put together a sound quarantine practice. Otherwise, you will continue to face challenges with diseases. It's best to assume that all fish acquisitions have some level of parasite load on them, and have a protocol in place to treat - both through prophylaxis and observation.

 

[Skupples]

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to have long term success in this hobby, you need to put together a sound quarantine practice. Otherwise, you will continue to face challenges with diseases. It's best to assume that all fish acquisitions have some level of parasite load on them, and have a protocol in place to treat - both through prophylaxis and observation.

Not taken the wrong way at all.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and where I sit.

I'm a veteran member of many hardcore computer builder forums, with a decade of experience, so I KNOW when I'm the padawan.

I'm working on setting up a QT, and how best to do it...

As stated above. I noticed a (What I think is ~)150G tank, with protein skimmer, 3 pump looking things, currents, and some other odds & ends just sitting in one of the back conference rooms at work. My assumption is that it belongs to the big boss man, as he just had his in-office tank upgrade up to a 400G in-wall unit, so I'm guessing this is the old tank... ANYWAYS. I'm going to ask him if he's willing to sell it, and for how much.

IF that comes through, the Biocube will turn into my QT tank.

anyways... I'm now realizing the hazards of buying new fish, I've also noticed that no one seems to attempt to sell any sort of guaranteed parasite free life.

I'm going to watch my Angel closely. I'm going to assume that this is Clownfish disease, if the Angel continues to not show symptoms.

 

[Skupples]

Photo update : ~36 hours since noticing the spots.

Clown #2 appears to be continuing to fade. He's getting twitchy, and spending lots of time hovering just above the floor.

Flame Angel appears to be fine, still no spots. It also seems to be avoiding the clown.

I expect the Clown to be dead by morning.

Tried getting some pics of both, but the Angel appears to be camera shy (without flash)

 

[Deinonych]

The clownfish almost certainly has Brooklynella. This disease is extremely virulent, and your Flame Angel is likely to succumb quickly as well. You need to start treatment soon or you will lose both fish.

 

[Skupples]

I'm pretty sure time has run out on setting up a quarantine, I was under the false impression that Brook would only affect the Clown, but it's sad to hear that it will affect the Flame as well...

Pretty sure I'm going to have to make the hard choice of letting them fade, then letting the tank go fallow.

thank you for your continued support.

will update in a few days.

 

[snorvich]

The clownfish almost certainly has Brooklynella. This disease is extremely virulent, and your Flame Angel is likely to succumb quickly as well. You need to start treatment soon or you will lose both fish.

I agree.

 

[Skupples]

*plays taps for the Flame*

time to do more reading, as up until a few hours ago, I Assumed this was Ich, then I saw the changes on the Clown & realized I was dealing with something completely different.

seems the treatments are mostly the same, AKA no silver bullet, AKA no treating in-tank w/ my LPS.

Looks like I'll need to setup a QT or tank swap method during the 80 days of DT Fallowhood. (not a word, I know)

With my luck, the LPS will get sick during the quarantine of the DT, so I should probably go read up on that as well.

 

[Deinonych]

I'm pretty sure time has run out on setting up a quarantine, I was under the false impression that Brook would only affect the Clown, but it's sad to hear that it will affect the Flame as well...

Pretty sure I'm going to have to make the hard choice of letting them fade, then letting the tank go fallow.

thank you for your continued support.

will update in a few days.

Why not try to save the Flame while you have time? These fish were removed from their natural habitat; as conscientious aquarists we owe it to these fish to give them the best quality of life. Letting them die of disease without attempting treatment is not an ethical choice.