is one week of observation after Tank Transffer Method enough for fish quarentine?

[sensei]

I have been quarentining fish with TTM + Prazi, but I do not know if velvet or brooks would show in a 3 weeks time frame ( 2 weeks TTM + 1 week observation)??

if fish are eating and showing no signs of any desease after this 3 weeks time frame, would it be safe to asume they are disease free??

Thanks

 

[Dmorty217]

No minimum of 30 days, and that's really only after TTM is complete

 

[sensei]

Dmorty,
In your experience, how much time can it take for velvet or brooks to show in a fish after you have bought it?
are there any signs like not eating, or not looking healthy before the disease shows?

I have had very good experience with TTM + Prazi for eliminating ich and parasites but I have never seen velvet or brooks in a fish

Thanks again?

 

[ThRoewer]

I would even consider 30 days insufficient. The total quarantine period should be two months (60 days), so 12 days of TTM and 48 days of observation.
If I do TTM I actually do it at the end, after the 2 months observation, as I use it just a precautionary measure for tanks I want to keep ich free.

 

[curtcherry]

I have seen marine velvet subside then two weeks later wipe out a tank. 30 days is the least after TTM in my book.

 

[snorvich]

Dmorty,
In your experience, how much time can it take for velvet or brooks to show in a fish after you have bought it?
are there any signs like not eating, or not looking healthy before the disease shows?

The problem is that for velvet, by the time you have visible confirmation it is almost too late. Fish coming from an environment running a low level of copper can mask velvet for about 4 weeks.

 

[ThRoewer]

Dmorty,
In your experience, how much time can it take for velvet or brooks to show in a fish after you have bought it?
are there any signs like not eating, or not looking healthy before the disease shows?

I have had very good experience with TTM + Prazi for eliminating ich and parasites but I have never seen velvet or brooks in a fish

Thanks again?

Cryptocaryon is pretty much the only parasite I don't care too much about (only when it gets out of control).

Since pretty much all fish can aquire some degree of immunity to pretty much every ectoparasite - Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, Brooklynella, Monogenean (skin and gill "flukes"),... - there is really not a uniformly defined minimum time when a disease either shows up or is proven to be not present. This is most prevalent to Cryptocaryon, but also possible for all the rest.
Though after 8 weeks, under less than stellar conditions (QT is never ideal), it is highly likely to show if there is something, especially when quarantining several fish together.

Time alone is also not the key, but rather how the fish look and behave has to be considered as well. It's called an observation period for a reason - you got to actually observe the fish every day for a good while to notice any unusual or abnormal behavior.

 

[sensei]

The problem is that for velvet, by the time you have visible confirmation it is almost too late. Fish coming from an environment running a low level of copper can mask velvet for about 4 weeks.

Thanks Steve,

would the fish eat and act normal and look healthy in the previous 4 weeks before velvet shows??

 

[sensei]

Cryptocaryon is pretty much the only parasite I don't care too much about (only when it gets out of control).

Since pretty much all fish can aquire some degree of immunity to pretty much every ectoparasite - Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, Brooklynella, Monogenean (skin and gill "flukes"),... - there is really not a uniformly defined minimum time when a disease either shows up or is proven to be not present. This is most prevalent to Cryptocaryon, but also possible for all the rest.
Though after 8 weeks, under less than stellar conditions (QT is never ideal), it is highly likely to show if there is something, especially when quarantining several fish together.

Time alone is also not the key, but rather how the fish look and behave has to be considered as well. It's called an observation period for a reason - you got to actually observe the fish every day for a good while to notice any unusual or abnormal behavior.

Thanks Roewer,
I know the symptoms for ich, but not for other diseases.
what are the other unsusual behavior of fish that we should look for?

 

[ThRoewer]

The most alarming sign is heavy breathing.
Spreading the gill covers is an indication of inflamed gills due to an infection.
Scratching without the typical ich nodules visible can also indicate a more serious disease (or just high bacterial or organic loads in the water).
Apathy is usually also not a good sign.
Not eating can be an indicator of an infection, but doesn't have to be in every case.

Often only an examination with a microscope can bring clarity to what you are dealing with.

I would recommend to invest some money into a decent microscope like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/400429169541?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT.
It may seem like a lot of money, but in the long run it may save you a lot of fish (and even coral).

 

[sensei]

Thanks Roewer,
What do you mean by Apathy? is it a fish that hides all the time??

Microscope is only good to inspect a dead fish correct?

 

[ThRoewer]

I also inspect live fish under the microscope. Just put them into a shallow bowl with enough water for the fish to lay on its side. You can also do it without water, but then you have less time.

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[sensei]

Roewer,

sorry to ask again,
Apathy in a fish would be a fish that hides all the time or did you mean something else??

Thanks

 

[ThRoewer]

Hiding can be a sign as well, though apathy is something different. It's basically a fish that shows no interest in its surroundings, ignores food and either stays listless in one spot or swims around aimlessly.

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[Deinonych]

Hiding can be a sign as well, though apathy is something different. It's basically a fish that shows no interest in its surroundings, ignores food and either stays listless in one spot or swims around aimlessly.

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+1

Also, it should be noted that once a fish becomes apathetic as described above, it's beyond the point of return. Death is usually imminent.

 

[Dmorty217]

I have a bandit angel that became apathetic on the 8th day I had it for some reason. It ate fine for the seven previous days before it happened then on the 8th day the fish stopped eating and couldn't swim normally. It's been another 8 days since that happens and the fish just lays on the bottom of the 40g QT it's in and when it swims, it head points straight toward the surface. I have been force feeding the bandit now for the last 8 days with no improvement. Also have tried many combinations of antibiotics, NFG and metroplex. I should note the bandit was in a 125g for the first 8 days along with a second bandit and goldenback trigger, both of which are fine. Anyone else have this happen before? This is the first time I have ever experienced this. It's not swim bladder related

 

[microlady]

The problem is that for velvet, by the time you have visible confirmation it is almost too late. Fish coming from an environment running a low level of copper can mask velvet for about 4 weeks.

This is interesting, and also why a 6 week quarantine period is usually warranted. Steve, do you know how this happens? Does it encyst on the fish? Thanks

 

[fellterrier]

One month minimum.

 

[ThRoewer]

One month minimum.

Not enough!

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[snorvich]

Thanks Steve,

would the fish eat and act normal and look healthy in the previous 4 weeks before velvet shows??

Yes. First sign is reclusive behavior usually coupled with hanging near the water return source.