Is this anemone salvageable?
- Thread starter alprazo
- Start date
ThRoewer
New member
I would in any case call/e-mail and complain since it was either bleached before or bleached while in shipping. (what happened can usually be told by what's in the transport water: lots of brown poop locking matter would indicate that it expelled its Zooxanthellae during shipment)
It's bleached but otherwise doesn't look too bad in the picture: not deflated, reasonably extended tentacles and mouth pretty much closed. If otherwise healthy it may color up again if it has retained some Zooxanthellae.
Now, from my experience I know that one single picture doesn't really tells the whole story. You need to watch it and see if it goes into an inflation-deflation cycle and lets its mouth hang open at times. This is usually a sign of being sick. Expelling of Zooxanthellae is also a sign of being sick.
It is normal though for a gigantean to contract at night and expand during the light period.
I would in any case get some Cipro to be ready to treat it if needed.
I found 5 and 10 gallon tanks to be adequate.
BTW: Cipro should always be at hand before ordering a gig.
So far I was able to rescue 2 out of 3 giganteas, with 3rd still being undecided (though having a rather negative prognosis).
Only one out of my 4 gigs was healthy from the start and did not require treatment.
It's bleached but otherwise doesn't look too bad in the picture: not deflated, reasonably extended tentacles and mouth pretty much closed. If otherwise healthy it may color up again if it has retained some Zooxanthellae.
Now, from my experience I know that one single picture doesn't really tells the whole story. You need to watch it and see if it goes into an inflation-deflation cycle and lets its mouth hang open at times. This is usually a sign of being sick. Expelling of Zooxanthellae is also a sign of being sick.
It is normal though for a gigantean to contract at night and expand during the light period.
I would in any case get some Cipro to be ready to treat it if needed.
I found 5 and 10 gallon tanks to be adequate.
BTW: Cipro should always be at hand before ordering a gig.
So far I was able to rescue 2 out of 3 giganteas, with 3rd still being undecided (though having a rather negative prognosis).
Only one out of my 4 gigs was healthy from the start and did not require treatment.
ThRoewer
New member
Since it was bleached before shipping (clean shipping water proves that) they should reimburse you or ship you another one.
If it stays like this I would probably wait before stressing it more with treatment. You may even get lucky and don't have to treat it.
Also keep in mind that you basically have just one shot to treat it with Cipro. If that fails you need to switch antibiotics and the choices are slim.
If it stays like this I would probably wait before stressing it more with treatment. You may even get lucky and don't have to treat it.
Also keep in mind that you basically have just one shot to treat it with Cipro. If that fails you need to switch antibiotics and the choices are slim.
ThRoewer
New member
BTW, I found this arrangement to be ideal to keep giganteas from wandering around in the QT and being easily removable (together with the plate) for QT/HT cleanings:
Here are my anemone treatment threats:
New gigantea from LA
New blue gig
New purple gig
Failed gig treatment? 2 round of Cipro or switch to another antibiotic?
Here are my anemone treatment threats:
New gigantea from LA
New blue gig
New purple gig
Failed gig treatment? 2 round of Cipro or switch to another antibiotic?
Seems like a reasonable response. Usually when I have notified them of a problem the guarantee gets extended. BTW,other than being bleached, gig looks to be in pretty good shape. Absent complications, bleaching is recoverable. GL.
D-Nak
Active member
Bleached DOES NOT mean sick, and therefore you do not need to start Cipro treatment -- yet. In many cases, bleached gigs ship better than gigs with zooxanthellae because it can die during shipment and the nem will expel it.
In this case, as others have said, while the gig is bleached, it appears to be healthy.
Regarding LA, though it's not tan/brown as advertised, it's not dead. While it's fine to complain and ask for a refund because you didn't receive a healthy specimen, I think having them ship you another one would be asking a lot. Just my opinion of course, but I hate it when people try to take advantage of a good thing (LA's great customer service) and I'm not saying you're going to do that, but I do think their response is justified. If it takes a turn for the worse, then I would definitely let them know.
Here's my thread that shows the recovery of a completely bleached gig, that looked a lot like yours when I first got it:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474141
Fortunately it colored up even more. I would consider it a multicolor gig. I'll post photos when I have a chance.
In this case, as others have said, while the gig is bleached, it appears to be healthy.
Regarding LA, though it's not tan/brown as advertised, it's not dead. While it's fine to complain and ask for a refund because you didn't receive a healthy specimen, I think having them ship you another one would be asking a lot. Just my opinion of course, but I hate it when people try to take advantage of a good thing (LA's great customer service) and I'm not saying you're going to do that, but I do think their response is justified. If it takes a turn for the worse, then I would definitely let them know.
Here's my thread that shows the recovery of a completely bleached gig, that looked a lot like yours when I first got it:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474141
Fortunately it colored up even more. I would consider it a multicolor gig. I'll post photos when I have a chance.
Dkuhlmann
New member
D-Nak, why is getting a bleached gig any different than the other thread going on where a red was shipped instead of the purple one ordered? LA told them to keep it or give it away and they will send a replacement as soon as they can, because what was shipped wasn't what was ordered. IMO it's the same thing, the OP didn't get what he ordered.
IMO if the sellers want to sell bleached anemones they should sell them at a much reduced price.
IMO if the sellers want to sell bleached anemones they should sell them at a much reduced price.
This thread has discussed two separate questions. First, a bleached anemone means a stressed anemone, not necessarily a sick one; so antibiotic treatment is not immediately called for IMO. Bleached anemones recover quite well if they are removed from the source of stress. Second, whether LA should have shipped it as a 'brown' gig is a separate question and one that the OP can (and has) addressed with the vendor.
ThRoewer
New member
If the bleaching had happened during shipment I would say that's what might happen and it's a risk you need to bear with all anemones. You also need to bear the risk that the anemone arrives sick and needs treatment. Those are the challenges of getting a "difficult" anemone.
But this anemone was already bleached when packaged, which in my book is shipping the wrong article (something different from what was advertised). This is for sure a valid reason to complain. While a bleached but otherwise healthy anemone may recover its Zooxanthellae (if there are some left), there is no guarantee for it, especially if this anemone was intentionally bleached (not common with gigs but almost the norm for crispas). And without Zooxanthellae its long term survival chances are rather grim.
Compare it to ordering a black car but receiving a white - functionally it's the same but I doubt you would just swallow this. At a minimum I would ask for a rebate or partial refund.
If this anemone is sick or healthy - only time can tell.
But this anemone was already bleached when packaged, which in my book is shipping the wrong article (something different from what was advertised). This is for sure a valid reason to complain. While a bleached but otherwise healthy anemone may recover its Zooxanthellae (if there are some left), there is no guarantee for it, especially if this anemone was intentionally bleached (not common with gigs but almost the norm for crispas). And without Zooxanthellae its long term survival chances are rather grim.
Compare it to ordering a black car but receiving a white - functionally it's the same but I doubt you would just swallow this. At a minimum I would ask for a rebate or partial refund.
If this anemone is sick or healthy - only time can tell.
D-Nak
Active member
I don't want this to become an ethics debate, but since you asked, I'll give my opinion.
First off, I completely agree that bleached anemones should be sold at a reduced price, because there is a recovery period that the new owner has to deal with.
Regarding Live Aquaria Divers Den and Live Aquaria, they are different businesses in different locations with different business models. When you buy from DD you're paying a premium because you're purchasing a WYSIWYG item. You're also buying an anemone that's been in quarantine and should be healthy enough to be shipped without issue.
On the other hand, Live Aquaria items come straight from the wholesaler -- this is a way to keep costs down. They also have a generic description with a stock photo, and also note "Due to variations within species, your item may not look identical to the image provided."
For both places, the guarantee is as follows:
"14 day guarantee: If your fish, coral, plant, or invertebrate doesn't arrive alive and stay alive for 14 days, we'll credit your account or refund your money."
No where does it state that they'll send a replacement. But given the premium people pay for DD items, I think customer service technicians are given leeway in terms of what they are allowed to do to keep a DD customer happy (and are therefore more likely to make another DD purchase in the future).
In the case of the red haddoni, it was a DD purchase that they screwed up -- they sent the wrong item. They could've easily just refunded the money, but instead offered to send a purple haddoni when they had one. To me, that's going above and beyond, and should definitely NOT be the expectation. But from a business perspective, it also locks up the money the customer paid and depending on the wholesale cost of both anemones, there still might be a profit to be made (though I doubt it because red haddoni aren't cheap).
IIRC, a tan gigantea from DD when they have them is roughly twice as expensive as one from LA. To me, that's a nice profit for sending it to WI, putting it in QT, and then taking a photo of it. Multiply this by all of the items available via DD, and you can quickly see that there's a profit margin that DD can use to keep customers happy. This is simply not the case with LA purchases.
Had we not heard the story of the red haddoni, I think most of us would expect that LA would just refund the OP's money.
So, in short -- yes, the OP didn't get what he ordered and has every right to complain -- but it doesn't warrant another anemone by default.
davocean
Active member
Totally agree w/ D-nak on this one.
One other thing to keep in mind is LA was recently bought out by Petco, there may have been or continue to be changes in policy and animal care.
(Boy, whoever got a red for the price of a purple scored, and got to keep both? I did not read this one)
I personally am very specific in what I shop for online, and this is one example of why I only buy WYSIWYG
Anything else is luck of the draw random, and I'm not that kinda lucky.
To OP, yes, that is a very salvageable nem given proper conditions, I have seen and had worse survive.
One other thing to keep in mind is LA was recently bought out by Petco, there may have been or continue to be changes in policy and animal care.
(Boy, whoever got a red for the price of a purple scored, and got to keep both? I did not read this one)
I personally am very specific in what I shop for online, and this is one example of why I only buy WYSIWYG
Anything else is luck of the draw random, and I'm not that kinda lucky.
To OP, yes, that is a very salvageable nem given proper conditions, I have seen and had worse survive.
ThRoewer
New member
Only Diver's Den specimen actually come from Live Aquaria. Everything else is drop shipped from Quality Marine (Live Aquaria's "California facility") or ORA (Live Aquaria's "Florida facility").
I posted this before in the Fish Disease section:
In essence, everything that comes from California or Florida has never been touched by a Live Aquaria employee. You basically buy straight from the wholesaler at retail price. So Live Aquaria make quite a cut on those without having the overhead and utility bills of a LFS. That's how they can give you a two week guarantee and still come out ahead.
I posted this before in the Fish Disease section:
In essence, everything that comes from California or Florida has never been touched by a Live Aquaria employee. You basically buy straight from the wholesaler at retail price. So Live Aquaria make quite a cut on those without having the overhead and utility bills of a LFS. That's how they can give you a two week guarantee and still come out ahead.
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