JBNY's 270 Ver2.0
- Thread starter JB NY
- Start date
Flatlander
Premium Member
Thats a beautiful echinata. Hope mine grows up to look like that...
reefmutt
Active member
Joe, crazy story.. Both the long and short versions! Glad to see your fresh start. I'll be watching and learning..
I really like the scape. What did you do the the Marco rock prior to adding it to your tank? Just curious about po4 from this rock and what mitigating actions you took, if any.
Also, I asked you this in your old thread but I'll do it again, just to lay the ground work, so to speak.. What, if anything have you done to the sand bed in the display through the life or your system? It doesn't look like there is as much as before..
That echinata takes my breath away and gives me butterflies in my stomach at the same time!!! Looooooove it!!
So why not give us the run down on your new system.. In case anybody here doesn't know about your very cool ARID reactor and the rest of your system.
I'm gonna enjoy watching this system grow up!
I really like the scape. What did you do the the Marco rock prior to adding it to your tank? Just curious about po4 from this rock and what mitigating actions you took, if any.
Also, I asked you this in your old thread but I'll do it again, just to lay the ground work, so to speak.. What, if anything have you done to the sand bed in the display through the life or your system? It doesn't look like there is as much as before..
That echinata takes my breath away and gives me butterflies in my stomach at the same time!!! Looooooove it!!
So why not give us the run down on your new system.. In case anybody here doesn't know about your very cool ARID reactor and the rest of your system.
I'm gonna enjoy watching this system grow up!
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
+1 Would be ncie to have a complete run down of the specs/system/methodology in one place. :thumbsup:
JB NY
Active member
Hey Matt,
I didn't do anything to the Marco rock before I put it in. I had a friend cure it for me in another tank, and then I just pulled out my rock and dumped the Marco rock in.
As to the sand bed. There is the same amount as always, just over the years the sand has been pushed towards the back of the tank. For about 6 years I had the power heads (2 tunze streams) in the back corners pointed front and to the middle. That cleared a lot of the sand in the front. Then when I went to the Gyres, that I have now, they have pushed the sand to the back even more. I am currently struggling with fixing that as I am starting to get much larger drifts in the middle back of the tank then I would like.
As to what I have done to the sand bed over the years. I have always kept sand sifting cucumbers (black ones and tiger tails. In addition, about 7 years ago I added 3 sand urchins called Maretia planulata. They really kept the sand bed both clean and stirred up. They could still be in the tank for all I know, I just haven't seen them in about 6 months. Stores were selling them at one time under the name "Heart Sea Urchin".
Here is what they look like when I put them in the tank.
My sand bed right now is about a clean as it has ever been. I think it is the gyres pushing so much water over the sand bed, any bits of cyano I had disappeared in a few weeks after I changed out power heads.
I'll give a full run down of my setup in a little bit.
Followed along with your last build. Sorry for the hard times that you went through but I'm guessing this edition will be just as spectacular if not better.
I'm going through a similiar issue with my tank. Actually tore everything out and am now refilling with water as we speak. Will be living vicariously through others until my tank finishes cycling
I'm going through a similiar issue with my tank. Actually tore everything out and am now refilling with water as we speak. Will be living vicariously through others until my tank finishes cycling
JB NY
Active member
So here is a rundown on the system. Antyhgin that doesn't make sense or that you want moe information on please just ask.
The basics of the whole thing is a 270 Gallon tank with most of the equipment in the basement, one floor below. 1.5" drains go down one floor into a 25 gallon sump, that can have filters socks and gets rid of bubbles, then flows to a flat frag tank (28"x28") with only 7" of water. next it drains into the main sump a 90 gallon polyethylene tank. Then pumps back up to the display tank using a Sequence 6000.
Lighting
MH/T5/LED
I have a Giesemann Spectra that I am using 250 watt MH Radiums and T5 (currently ATI B+ and KZ Fiji Purple). On the front and back of the Spectra I have attached a ReefBrite Tech LED with Royal Blue LEDs. The LED add a nice pop to the corals and I use them at night (on a dimmer at 1%) for about 1 hour after the main lights go off.
Ligting schedual is
T5 ON 07:30 AM OFF 8:00 PM
MH ON 12:00 PM OFF 8:25 PM
LED ON 12:00PM OFF 9:15 PM
Ballast are three luxcore 250w-400w adjustable.
Other than adding the LED in this time, this is the same lighting schedule I have used for abut 15 years.
Circualtion
Right now I am using two Maxspect Gyre XF150 on opposite side of the tank. I am using an Apex controller to create an alternating gyre every 6 minutes. Right now this is giving me the best water movement I have ever had in the tank.
Nutrient removal
So this time I decided to try and maintain just a little N and P in the tank. The last tank was zero N and P and it did really well, so it is not that the tank can't be successful, it is just that I found it to be endlessly frustrating to try and keep levels of N and P so low. You end up being obsessed with number chasing and it really doesn't do anything better than not having levels so low. I still had cyano in the tank, I still had a bryopsis out break. Overall algae problems were much less but changing GFO and carbon all the time, and testing and making adjustments was, as a said earlier, exhausting.
So this time LR/LS skimmer and macro algae. that's it. Funny as it is what I did with my 180 gallon 10 years ago.
Live rock and live sand do most of the work. Pretty easy to do and I have been successful with it for a long time so I am doing that again.
Skimmer, using an old school Becket skimmer a Barr Aquatic SK4200. Skims the daylights out of the tank. Clean it out every two weeks
Overflow cup after two weeks of skimming on cleaning day.
Algae reactor. Using a Pax-Bellum ARID C30. Put some Cheato in and a week later pull some out, repeat. Pulls Nitrates and Phosphates down to nothing very quickly, I now have to dose NO3 to keep some nitrates in the tank.
The ARID algae reactor itself
Looking in from the top this is what it looks like on day one.
This is how much it grows to in about 7-10 days. 5 gallon buckets for reference.
I dose about 20ml of KNO3 once a day. This lets me keep NO3 about 5ppm and PO4 around 0.02-0.01. I use carbon maybe every 6-8 weeks if I feel the need.
The basics of the whole thing is a 270 Gallon tank with most of the equipment in the basement, one floor below. 1.5" drains go down one floor into a 25 gallon sump, that can have filters socks and gets rid of bubbles, then flows to a flat frag tank (28"x28") with only 7" of water. next it drains into the main sump a 90 gallon polyethylene tank. Then pumps back up to the display tank using a Sequence 6000.
Lighting
MH/T5/LED
I have a Giesemann Spectra that I am using 250 watt MH Radiums and T5 (currently ATI B+ and KZ Fiji Purple). On the front and back of the Spectra I have attached a ReefBrite Tech LED with Royal Blue LEDs. The LED add a nice pop to the corals and I use them at night (on a dimmer at 1%) for about 1 hour after the main lights go off.
Ligting schedual is
T5 ON 07:30 AM OFF 8:00 PM
MH ON 12:00 PM OFF 8:25 PM
LED ON 12:00PM OFF 9:15 PM
Ballast are three luxcore 250w-400w adjustable.
Other than adding the LED in this time, this is the same lighting schedule I have used for abut 15 years.
Circualtion
Right now I am using two Maxspect Gyre XF150 on opposite side of the tank. I am using an Apex controller to create an alternating gyre every 6 minutes. Right now this is giving me the best water movement I have ever had in the tank.
Nutrient removal
So this time I decided to try and maintain just a little N and P in the tank. The last tank was zero N and P and it did really well, so it is not that the tank can't be successful, it is just that I found it to be endlessly frustrating to try and keep levels of N and P so low. You end up being obsessed with number chasing and it really doesn't do anything better than not having levels so low. I still had cyano in the tank, I still had a bryopsis out break. Overall algae problems were much less but changing GFO and carbon all the time, and testing and making adjustments was, as a said earlier, exhausting.
So this time LR/LS skimmer and macro algae. that's it. Funny as it is what I did with my 180 gallon 10 years ago.
Live rock and live sand do most of the work. Pretty easy to do and I have been successful with it for a long time so I am doing that again.
Skimmer, using an old school Becket skimmer a Barr Aquatic SK4200. Skims the daylights out of the tank. Clean it out every two weeks
Overflow cup after two weeks of skimming on cleaning day.
Algae reactor. Using a Pax-Bellum ARID C30. Put some Cheato in and a week later pull some out, repeat. Pulls Nitrates and Phosphates down to nothing very quickly, I now have to dose NO3 to keep some nitrates in the tank.
The ARID algae reactor itself
Looking in from the top this is what it looks like on day one.
This is how much it grows to in about 7-10 days. 5 gallon buckets for reference.
I dose about 20ml of KNO3 once a day. This lets me keep NO3 about 5ppm and PO4 around 0.02-0.01. I use carbon maybe every 6-8 weeks if I feel the need.
JB NY
Active member
Ca/Mg/Alk]
MTC Calcium reactor. When the frags start growing and my calcium demands are more I will put the kalk reactor back online and dose kalk as well. Using an MTC Calcium reactor (seen in the skimmer pic on the left) I have been using this reactor for about 12 years and other than replacing a few worn out parts over the years still performs great.
Drilled out the top to accept a pH probe in the first chamber.
Made this slick regulator from parts bought on ebay.
ATO
So I spent a lot of time working out the ATO for this tank. I wanted never to even have to think about getting water to the tank. In the 7+ years the tank has been going I have not had any problems.
Here is a diagram of my ATO setup. Description below.
All top-off water is kept in a 55 gallon Rubbermaid brute trash can.
For the Top-Off Container
Controller #1 controls the water level in the top-off container.
When the water level drop lower than float switch #4, Controller #1 energizes float switch #1. Water from the house water supply now goes into the RO/DI unit and then goes into the top-off container.
When the water in the top-of container gets to float switch #3, Controller #1 turn off float switch #1. If float switch #3 fails, float switch #2 will be activated and Controller #1 will turn off float switch #1.
From the sump
Controller #2 controlls top-off for the sump, water falls below float switch #6, Controller #2 will activate the top-off pump and pump water into the sump until water is above float switch #6 then Controller #2 will shut the pump off.
float switch #5 and float switch #7 are fail-safes. they are hooked into the switch input box that connects the switches to Controller #3 (aquacontroller3).
If water goes below float switch #7, the main pump is shut off by Controller #3. An alarm sounds, pages are sent to phone and emails accounts.
If water goes above float switch #5 Controller #3 shuts off power to Controller #2 which cuts the power to the top-off pump.An alarm sounds, pages are sent to phone and emails accounts.
Here are a few more pictures of my ATO setup.
Here is the ro/di unit and the polypropylene solenoid valve (Float Switch#1). They are located under the sink.
Just the solenoid valve.
top-off container controller on left Controller #1. Top-off contoller for the sump top off (life reef controller Controller #2) on right.
Floats switches in the top-off container. Switches #2, 3 , AND 4.
Float Switches in the sump. Switches #5, 6, and 7.
Dosing
A little strontium weekly (1/2 recommended dosage)
Amino Acids
That's it
MTC Calcium reactor. When the frags start growing and my calcium demands are more I will put the kalk reactor back online and dose kalk as well. Using an MTC Calcium reactor (seen in the skimmer pic on the left) I have been using this reactor for about 12 years and other than replacing a few worn out parts over the years still performs great.
Drilled out the top to accept a pH probe in the first chamber.
Made this slick regulator from parts bought on ebay.
ATO
So I spent a lot of time working out the ATO for this tank. I wanted never to even have to think about getting water to the tank. In the 7+ years the tank has been going I have not had any problems.
Here is a diagram of my ATO setup. Description below.
All top-off water is kept in a 55 gallon Rubbermaid brute trash can.
For the Top-Off Container
Controller #1 controls the water level in the top-off container.
When the water level drop lower than float switch #4, Controller #1 energizes float switch #1. Water from the house water supply now goes into the RO/DI unit and then goes into the top-off container.
When the water in the top-of container gets to float switch #3, Controller #1 turn off float switch #1. If float switch #3 fails, float switch #2 will be activated and Controller #1 will turn off float switch #1.
From the sump
Controller #2 controlls top-off for the sump, water falls below float switch #6, Controller #2 will activate the top-off pump and pump water into the sump until water is above float switch #6 then Controller #2 will shut the pump off.
float switch #5 and float switch #7 are fail-safes. they are hooked into the switch input box that connects the switches to Controller #3 (aquacontroller3).
If water goes below float switch #7, the main pump is shut off by Controller #3. An alarm sounds, pages are sent to phone and emails accounts.
If water goes above float switch #5 Controller #3 shuts off power to Controller #2 which cuts the power to the top-off pump.An alarm sounds, pages are sent to phone and emails accounts.
Here are a few more pictures of my ATO setup.
Here is the ro/di unit and the polypropylene solenoid valve (Float Switch#1). They are located under the sink.
Just the solenoid valve.
top-off container controller on left Controller #1. Top-off contoller for the sump top off (life reef controller Controller #2) on right.
Floats switches in the top-off container. Switches #2, 3 , AND 4.
Float Switches in the sump. Switches #5, 6, and 7.
Dosing
A little strontium weekly (1/2 recommended dosage)
Amino Acids
That's it
JB NY
Active member
OK I tried to give as short and complete picture as possible.
Thanks. I am hopeful this version will turn out really nice. The part I a at right now, when everything is only tiny tiny frags, is the only part which would go faster. Once the frags get going a little I like the tank much better.
Those are really neat urchins. I have never seen them in person. I'm going to ask a couple of shops if they can order them.
Joe, you may need a couple more coral shots on the thread.... For comparison sake..... You know, for down the road. No pressure.
They should be able to get them, they were available from most of the wholesalers for a while.
I'll get some frags pics up soon to.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Thanks very much for the update, its good to see a top to bottom rundown of all that you are doing. Many people focus on one isolated component of a system, when often its the combination of several things that contributes to the tank's success or failure. Seeing the system laid out is very interesting.
Its amazing to me how many people are returning to what works - returning to halides, returning to refugia, returning to Chaeto....hey, it works!
Its amazing to me how many people are returning to what works - returning to halides, returning to refugia, returning to Chaeto....hey, it works!
JB NY
Active member
I agree so many people overlook the system as a whole when trying to achieve the success of others. For me, my system is put together to try and make the tank as stable as possible with as little outside intervention as possible. So I have tried to automate everything that keeps the tank going. So lights are always on and off at the same time. Heaters and chillers, to keep temp stable, Ca Reactor to keep alk stable, ATO to keep salinity stable, Big skimmer that can go a few weeks without needing to be maintained, Chaeto to get that extra bit to keep nutrients down. Basically try to set up the tank to be able to run on auto pilot as long as possible.
It does seem that a lot of people are going back to what worked in the past, but I also think many of them are people who have had tanks a long time. They see that the way of maintaining a tank that is now being marketed to the hobbyist might not be the best or easiest way of doing things. I think that if I had not had success with this kind of method in the past, and I was new, I might not be willing to buck the trend of carbon dosing, GFO, LED, and constant testing.
For me, I have always run Halides so it's more of a big deal that I have LED strips on the tank. I had also tried to have Chaeto last time when I was carbon dosing, and I could never get it to grow. That was due to the carbon dosing, but I didn't realize it when I first tried using Chaeto in the tank.
But I stand by the thought that you can be successful with a variety of different methods, you just have to choose the one that fits how you want to run your tank. Last time I had crazy growth and really good coloration with carbon dosing and GFO, so I can not say that it doesn't work very well because it did for me. But for this setup now, I want to try it again without the carbon dosing and GFO because I think long term it is a better and healthier way to go for SPS.
Pricing should be on their forum, they are just starting out so I don't think there is much info or retailers yet.
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/pax-bellum-llc/
They are not cheap, I have the C30 one of the largest they make, but I would tell you to think of it more like a skimmer when you look at the price. I think you can spend a lot more than this for a decent skimmer that will probably not pull your nutrients down nearly as much as this does.
Yeah, the reactor gives a different perspective to keeping the tank in balance. The more your tank is aligned with NSW levels the better it grows, I had a boron deficiency that was causing the chaeto to be brittle and not grow well and once I raised the levels to NSW the problem went away. Also keeping an eye on Iron is important as well. One of the interesting things now is I have no hair algae or cyano in the main display at all. But it seems that every 6-8 weeks the ARID reactor gets tons of cyano in it, then it burns out in a few weeks and happens again. But no cyano in the main display at all. Very interesting, I'm not sure why that is but having it secluded to the reactor is fine by me.
