jynxtrix's Forcibly Propogated Haddoni Anemone

It took Phender's mertensii about a year to die from being cut in half. These are long lived animals that typically do nothing fast. It can take a year or more for an anemone to truly recover from simple shipping stress and bleaching. The fact that one of these cut anemones survives for a few months really tells us nothing.

I honestly do not want to come across as harsh to my fellow hobbyists. I don't have a beef with the people that have been misguided by someone that was simply trying to make a name for himself. It is a very........ (how can I say this?).......... "emotional" subject for some of us. We spend countless hours, tons of money, and plenty of hard work to care for these animals. We nurse them through shipping stress, watch them grow, prosper, and become the majestic creatures they truly are. Then we find some guy that's convincing people to hack them up with a butcher knife. Ya....... We're going to have a problem with that. This is done in the name of propagation, but after years of this practice, and countless dead anemones, we still do not have captively propagated haddonis, gigantea, doreensis...... in our LFS or online stores. All we have to show for it is a whole bunch of dead anemones, and some guy that has pretty much vanished from the hobby. Seems kinda strange to me that he vanished shortly after I went to his forum, called him on his lies, and told him to stop killing sea anemones.

At this point, I honestly don't care if all the stars in the heavens line up, and there's some divine intervention that allows someone, somewhere, to be successful at this. It will not erase the countless deaths that occurred up to that point, and it will not save those that are hacked to pieces after the fact. The body of evidence we have to show that this is nothing remotely close to propagation is simply overwhelming, and can not be denied.
 
For the record... :

Clown anemones that can be fragged with greater than 50% success rates:
E. quadricolor
H. magnifica

Clown anemones that can be fragged with low success rates (and questionable long term survival):
S. mertensii
S. haddoni

Clown anemones that have no record of ever being fragged successfully:
S. gigantea
C. adhaesivum
M. doreensis
H. crispa
H. malu
H. aurora
 
Last edited:
BonsaiNut said:
Clown anemones that can be fragged with low success rates (and questionable long term survival):
S. mertensii
S. haddoni
Click to expand...

I think the important part here is the "long term survival". I don't consider Phender's mertensii a success, because as he put it, "the anemone was never right" after the cut. Meaning to me, that it never truly healed. He had this anemone for years before the cut. He knew this animal. If he says the anemone isn't right, I have no doubt there was something wrong with it. The fact that it's no longer with us tells the whole story as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure the anemone would still be in Phender's care and doing great, had it never been cut. To me, that equals failure.

When it comes to haddoni, I haven't seen evidence of "success" that goes beyond the photographic evidence that can be found in Phender's thread with his mertensii. We know how that turned out, so based on the "evidence" I've seen, it's kinda hard to state there's been success with haddoni, either.
 
Dukester said:
hey, i hate to direct this at you Todd but im pretty sure that 7 months, a totally healed cut, the fact it was eating, etc etc makes it a success. Point being that once someone shows some longer term success.. its still not going to be good enough for some.
Click to expand...

7 months is nothing really, healthy looking haddoni still have a low survival rate (without being cut) in captivity, lots die in the first few weeks, but many die after 6months and many die after a year or 2 .....

So to see a successful experiment with cutting a healthy haddoni, i would expect to choose a healthy haddoni that has been in captivity for at least 2 years and then for the 2 halves to have survived for 2 years before calling it a success.
 
EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other.

Dukester: Thank you for noticing the obvious trend here and acknowledging it and at the very least, trying to do something about it. Too bad more people can't seem to do the same. It's a shame it is the way it is. I nearly walked away from this forum completely last week. Today is the first day I've looked at it since last weeks little fiasco and even now, after cooling off, I read back through and wonder if it's even worth posting.

I'm not sure how much I will participate in this thread, seeing as how it is obviously a waste of time. Even if I succeed completely in this endeavor, there are just so many cynics posting here that this thread will likely be a waste of time for any one to try to sift through for any amount of information. The direction this thread is going, I will likely lose interest in reading it and updating it myself soon, so If i disappear for an extended period of time, feel free to PM me for an update.

and finally, ON TOPIC :)
I decided to tear apart and rebuild my sump/fuge on Saturday and do a little redesign, when my sump pump is off, there is a drastic decrease in current in my tank, so I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to return "fluffy" to the general population since my fish stuff would likely have my undivided attention and I would be able to keep an eye on him the majority of the day.
So, I took him out, set him in the sand, and went about my day. Fluffy crept over and embedded himself in between two pieces of base rock at the bottom of my tank and appears to be very happy. He's back to waving and dancing in the current anyway and hosting one of my mature adult clowns, it actually managed to eat a small piece of silverside last night too, which makes me happy, as spot feeding with mysis shrimp the way I have been doing would be a great deal more difficult now that he's out of the net. On a side note, Fluffy killed one of my clowns on friday (R.I.P. Perky). It was a small juvenile clown that liked to wedge itself between Fluffy and the breeder net wall. From the looks of it Perky got in there and was smothered, as there were no signs of damage, decease or distress.
The larger of the two nems is also doing well, and has finally closed the gap between the two healed edges, things are looking well with the 4 t5ho setup 10k/red/actinic/10k. I'll try to post pictures later, if I don't lose interest after reading whatever assault goes on between this posting and the next time I log on.

Those of you sincerely interested in this, thanks again. Hopefully my progress will be of some value to you.
 
EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other.

Dukester: Thank you for noticing the obvious trend here and acknowledging it and at the very least, trying to do something about it. Too bad more people can't seem to do the same. It's a shame it is the way it is. I nearly walked away from this forum completely last week. Today is the first day I've looked at it since last weeks little fiasco and even now, after cooling off, I read back through and wonder if it's even worth posting.

I'm not sure how much I will participate in this thread, seeing as how it is obviously a waste of time. Even if I succeed completely in this endeavor, there are just so many cynics posting here that this thread will likely be a waste of time for any one to try to sift through for any amount of information. The direction this thread is going, I will likely lose interest in reading it and updating it myself soon, so If i disappear for an extended period of time, feel free to PM me for an update.

and finally, ON TOPIC :)
I decided to tear apart and rebuild my sump/fuge on Saturday and do a little redesign, when my sump pump is off, there is a drastic decrease in current in my tank, so I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to return "fluffy" to the general population since my fish stuff would likely have my undivided attention and I would be able to keep an eye on him the majority of the day.
So, I took him out, set him in the sand, and went about my day. Fluffy crept over and embedded himself in between two pieces of base rock at the bottom of my tank and appears to be very happy. He's back to waving and dancing in the current anyway and hosting one of my mature adult clowns, it actually managed to eat a small piece of silverside last night too, which makes me happy, as spot feeding with mysis shrimp the way I have been doing would be a great deal more difficult now that he's out of the net. On a side note, Fluffy killed one of my clowns on friday (R.I.P. Perky). It was a small juvenile clown that liked to wedge itself between Fluffy and the breeder net wall. From the looks of it Perky got in there and was smothered, as there were no signs of damage, decease or distress.
The larger of the two nems is also doing well, and has finally closed the gap between the two healed edges, things are looking well with the 4 t5ho setup 10k/red/actinic/10k. I'll try to post pictures later, if I don't lose interest after reading whatever assault goes on between this posting and the next time I log on.

Those of you sincerely interested in this, thanks again. Hopefully my progress will be of some value to you.
 
This post makes me laugh inside. For everyone who is seriously persucuting anyone for cutting a nem in half that will probably die you might as well put your mouse traps and flyswatters in the thrash as well. While I agree the proprogation of these animals holds little merit because the chance for success is pretty poor I still think it doesn't really matter if he succedds or fails. If it dies it was his money, if both halfs live, then good on him.

You guys might as well go and persucute the people cutting up choc. starfish for their harlequin shrimp as well. I wish you good luck on this bud but if you have success it won't say much for propragating them. If people want to run around cutting up their nems based on something they read than that is their choice. An intellegent person will seek advice from multiple sources, not just one internet forum.

I agree though that this is one nem that will probably not survive propragation on normal terms like a BTA does. Good luck either way.

Tyler
 
It would be great if the op succeeds. It would mean we wouldn't need to take loads of nems out of the sea. Is he doing anything different from previous people who have failed?.....maybe the lights! Time will tell.
 
Even if he succeeds.... that does not by any means mean we can take less nems out of the sea or that we would. The nems biology does not allow it to heal the same way as an e. quad, just because he succeeds does not mean the next person would. His success would honestly probably do more harm than good by having un-experienced people chopping up nems. Either way its still their money. Ill let mine split naturally.

If you really want to promote natural nem making... than get a 20k gallon tank and let them produce sexually like they are naturally evolved to do.
 
Don't get me wrong, I would never cut up one of my carpets...but so long as the deed is already done..I'm hoping it succeeds. And if it succeeds it wouldn't make me want to cut up mine anymore....too many variables unaccounted for.
 
Indeed. i hope he succeeds to, but only because than he can try to frag that red haddoni from DD that costs 700 dollars and make an easy 700 bucks :P.
 
jynxtrix said:
EC: To put your previous post in context, Grafting fruit trees has just about as much to do with with anemones as cutting dogs in half. Half a dozen of one, could care less about the other.
Click to expand...

NO........... You missed the whole point. My post had nothing to do with dogs. The point was that if you understand the biology of an organism, you know if it has the potential to survive being cut in half or not. Therefore, you don't actually need to cut the organism in half to find out.

Calfo's point was that if we can do something to one organism, then surely we can do it to others. Well, that is simply absurd. Life on this planet has been diversifying for 3.5 to 4+ billion years. This has produced a great deal of organisms that have very little in common. What hold true of one tells us nothing about the others.
 
As I mentioned earlier...

20120221194530.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-21

20120221194536.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-21

20120221194546.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-21

20120221194555.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-21

20120221194641.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-21

And for the record, I didn't miss the point of anything.
I just dislike poor analogies.
 
just some more updates

just some more updates

some more updates on big nem and little nem. they are both doing well, little nem is much more active as of late, and they have mad it a point to move much closer together over the course of the last week. Hopefully they can't eat each other, that would be awkward.

20120226182513.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-26

20120226182520.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-26

Here you can see better how the larger of the two is filling in. the smaller is developing a much more pronounced and developed foot.

20120226182529.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-26

20120226182536.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-26

20120226182550.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-26

20120226182555.jpg

Shot at 2012-02-26
 
jynxtrix you said when you cut it you "rinsed it and gave it a dip". I am assuming you rinsed it with tank water? What did you dip it in? Did you use any antibiotics or anything similar?
 
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