Krakatoa Zoa?

[greg1786]

This is when it first came in




this was taken over the weekend with my iphone after a few weeks grew a baby that is almost the size of the mother polyp.


here is a pic next to hallucinations to get an idea of the color

The last picture in this post is stunning!! I dont think ive ever seen so much insanely vivid color variety in an entire tank as you have in this one square foot of your reef! Well done!!!!!!

 

[A. Grandis]

Is that the very same polyp posted on ebay?
I think they sold another polyp.
The center has less dark marks.

Grandis.

 

[pmcarbrey]

My only comment:

If you have the money why not? I have no problem throwing down $5-600 on a coral sight unseen if it is exactly what I want. This hobby is now and always has been a luxury based upon disposable income. Those with more disposable income will pay more in order to get exactly what they want. I remember seeing a colony of dragon eyes and tubbs blues go for $5000 less than a year ago for no reason other than it vaguely resembled the shape of a globe. two people who wanted it saw it, and kept bidding until one person decided it wasn't worth that much to them.

Everything in this hobby is dictated by money, these frags selling for such a high price in some ways is GOOD, a fact which many choose to ignore. The high dollar prices of fresh imports are the reason why direct importers work so hard to find us new morphs and species. if new and interesting morphs fetched the same price as everything else there would be no reason for any commercial operation to actively seek out the new varieties we love!

TL;DR: high coral prices arent all bad, just because most cant afford it they get a bad rap, in reality these premium prices are why new varieties are sought out and introduced, so be grateful, the people willing to spend hundreds of dollars are the driving force behind the expansion of our hobby.

 

[A. Grandis]

Free country, my dear. Free country...
To buy, to sell, give opinions and have fun.

Grandis.

 

[Duke4130]

The last picture in this post is stunning!! I dont think ive ever seen so much insanely vivid color variety in an entire tank as you have in this one square foot of your reef! Well done!!!!!!

Thank you!!!

Is that the very same polyp posted on ebay?
I think they sold another polyp.
The center has less dark marks.

Grandis.

The very first polyp sold on eBay went to Joe of Joe Knows Reefs (that was the single polyp that went for over $500). Joe grew them into 4 then cut them up and sold them. I purchased a single head off of Joe. As far as I know the other polyps melted. I know of one or two people from the other forum that said that theirs didn't make it. The double polyp frag that I just won on ebay will be in today.. Rudy at GB ended up shipping it yesterday instead of Monday.

 

[KafudaFish]

Good luck and I hope the polyp does well for you.

It is a pretty piece.

 

[Duke4130]

Good luck and I hope the polyp does well for you.

It is a pretty piece.

Thank you..... It is doing extremely well.... With in three weeks it popped out a baby that is now the size of the mother polyp. I was just looking at it last night and there is another baby coming out.... So far so good. I just hope that it isn't like darth mauls when they grow extremely fast for 6 months and then melt away from one day to the next for no apparent reason.

 

[organism]

Everything in this hobby is dictated by money, these frags selling for such a high price in some ways is GOOD, a fact which many choose to ignore. The high dollar prices of fresh imports are the reason why direct importers work so hard to find us new morphs and species. if new and interesting morphs fetched the same price as everything else there would be no reason for any commercial operation to actively seek out the new varieties we love!

TL;DR: high coral prices arent all bad, just because most cant afford it they get a bad rap, in reality these premium prices are why new varieties are sought out and introduced, so be grateful

First of all, seriously? You've had a reef tank for less than a month and a half, you're trying to put a sebae and SPS under PC lighting, and now you're giving "informed" commentary on coral economics? This is exactly the problem with these coral hype threads, it's well-informed people who have been in the hobby for a long time vs 90% uninformed newer hobbyists who oh by the way are already selling overpriced corals by the polyp. So again... seriously?

Second, that could not possibly be less correct, if that were the case then we wouldn't have seen amazing corals before the scammers took over, but instead while more corals have started coming in due to more hobbyists the percentage of high-quality corals has not changed. The only thing that has changed is that wholesalers and collection stations are starting to astronomically jack their prices every year.

the people willing to spend hundreds of dollars are the driving force behind the expansion of our hobby.

Could not be less correct, the people who shop at their LFS, which is where the vast majority of the people enter the hobby, are the driving force behind the expansion of the hobby. Scammers who con people out of that money are actually hurting our hobby.

 

[organism]

Let's look at what the real issue is, and that's education.

The people who are saying the market is screwed by scammers who are destroying the hobby have been on here for around 6 or more years. The people who are saying "supply and demand are words I don't fully get" have been on here for an average of sliiiiightly over one year. That's not coincidence, that's an informed side of a debate and an uninformed side passing themselves off as the same thing thanks to the beauty of the internet.

 

[leveldrummer]

So again... seriously?

:lolspin::lolspin::beer::ape::ape::thumbsup::lmao:

 

[kichimark]

:lolspin: organism put someone in their place haha. Seriously people, beautiful corals have been around before the naming but with advances in technology (lighting) we are able to see colors we didn't see before.

Then people come in taking pictures of those polyps under heavy actinics and some even photoshop and sell to noobs mostly. I remember the first coral show I went to (CFM in orange county, CA), my gf was so amazed by the colors of the corals at one booth. I told her I had some of the same corals in my tank for a while and she was like "but they don't look like that". I remember telling her to look up and she knew the trick they were doing (all heavy actinics).

I also remember at that time I wanted to get a part time gig at one of the importers (quality marine in L.A.) and during the interview they showed me around the facility and they had a section where they put corals they thought were different from their general shipments and saved those to save and frag. The people there also have computers and knew what some people wanted. But I remember they just cherry picked the corals from the shipments they were getting in. I didn't get the part time gig since it wasn't going to be worth the pay and the driving distance from the valley. I hate the 405 haha.

 

[eg8r210]

Wow... I spent a half an hour writing up a nice response to this thread and my internet went out... Sweet....

Basically I think that the whole hobby is up on a "hype" trip.... There is not two sides like some people mentioned. We are all one hobby.... Everyone that has ever bought anything from the LFS is feeding into this hype... The economy in general is fueled by hype.... We are people and it is only human to want something different or new after seeing the same old stuff all the time. The only people that can say that they are not feeding into the hype are the people that can actually go dive and collect corals to put in there personal collection for the there own enjoyment. I am pretty sure there are not too many people in the US that do that.

Everyone is forgetting that this is just a hobby... There are people that capitalize on it and there are people that lose on it. That is just how it is and there is not much that you can do about it, but the important thing is that we all enjoy it. I remember 15 years ago when the elegance coral was the best thing since sliced bread, all of the button polyps that were brown and olive drab green were awesome for the time.... Now 15 years later and there are corals that have all the colors of the rainbow, things that glow like radiation under a blue light. Stuff that only god can create... Believe me I make color for a living and I can not make half of the colors that are in my tank....lol Unfortunately these things do demand a higher price tag... If there was more out there the price wouldn't be so high.... Look at the My Miami... The first frag went for a trillion dollars or something like that... Now it has been spread around and grown out and is available to a broader market now because it is more common.

Yea there is more of everything still out there in the ocean... It is all about what is available here and now, not what is going to be available years down the road. If we were all like that then our tanks would be empty....lol.. I was talking to a buddy of mine that talks to divers.... Those master scolys that come in are 1 in almost 2000.... Imagine diving for hours and finding one good piece in the entire day. You pay for rare and that is how it is.

Getting back to the Krakatoa... Everyone is forgetting one key thing here.... It was an auction with a finishing price that was set by the people. It wasn't a LFS asking a ridiculous price for a polyp it was hobbyist themselves setting the value of this thing. Don't think that the bid was getting ran up because I talked to a couple of people that were bidding on it. It was down to who wanted it more and what was someone willing to pay for its rarity.... That is what the uproar is about.... It was hobbyist that set the price so high not the named collector or the LFS... That is my $.02

Great response!

 

[pmcarbrey]

First of all, seriously? You've had a reef tank for less than a month and a half, you're trying to put a sebae and SPS under PC lighting, and now you're giving "informed" commentary on coral economics? This is exactly the problem with these coral hype threads, it's well-informed people who have been in the hobby for a long time vs 90% uninformed newer hobbyists who oh by the way are already selling overpriced corals by the polyp. So again... seriously?

Second, that could not possibly be less correct, if that were the case then we wouldn't have seen amazing corals before the scammers took over, but instead while more corals have started coming in due to more hobbyists the percentage of high-quality corals has not changed. The only thing that has changed is that wholesalers and collection stations are starting to astronomically jack their prices every year.



Could not be less correct, the people who shop at their LFS, which is where the vast majority of the people enter the hobby, are the driving force behind the expansion of the hobby. Scammers who con people out of that money are actually hurting our hobby.

You're right, I dont have much experience with the saltwater side of the hobby, most of my experience has been in the freshwater world where the same issues occur with plants and shrimp. There are plants that go for hundreds of dollars per stem for no reason other than hype. It's the exact same issue that comes naturally with any hobby, there will always be a general population market and a high end market. The bread and butter equipment makes the most money as a whole, but it's the high end that pushes progress. why? because the instant they discover anything even slightly new they can add a few hundred to what they were making before. When Erio was first introduced to the hobby in the US it went for $500, when pinto shrimp first came in the entire shipment went for $3000 per shrimp to the same hobbyist.

Before I continue: I also own a fish store? dont believe me? shoot me a pm and i'll give you our info so you can give us a call. I'm not some idiot who has no experience. I've been in the business 3 years this time around and before a two year break, 4 years. So with a total of 7 years on the business end of this hobby I feel like I can make statements on this, but please, continue referencing me coming for advice to confirm something I already suspected as a reason to simply ignore what I am saying.

Now let me get to what bothers me about everything you say: you assume that because some of us are willing to pay a fortune for something we want that the seller is a "scammer". For some people it's just a price we pay for what we want.

Also: as far as expansion of the hobby goes, local fish stores are being ground down by online sales, I'm seeing less and less of people coming in wanting the bread and butter zoas, even when I price them at $1-2 per polyp or even less in some cases, which compared to most retail establishments is dirt cheap. What people come to me with money for are the designer zoas. That's why I ordered nightmares, darth mauls, and gods of war. People ask for designer zoas by name and want to pay $20 or more per polyp for some of them!

Get off your high horse and realize that everything in this hobby is only worth as much as someone will pay, and i'm not just talking corals, look at equipment or tanks. How is it that I buy a 55g one place and it costs me $55 yet I pay $120 elsewhere? Because the name sells the product. I can sell two high end zoas that are identical, one with a name, one without and ask for buyers to offer a price, the named zoa will sell for more everytime, because this hobby as a whole expects to pay for quality.

But wait! this theory doesn't apply just to this hobby does it?

It applies to the entire pet trade. If you want something new and exotic, you pay more. simply to ensure that you get what you want, that you get something different.


Side note: coral wholesale prices aren't half as high as you think they are, the difference in price between a large rock of "premium/ultra" grade zoas and just "zoas" on my list is $10 right now; these rocks come in with anywhere from 100-200 polyps on them. Prices are still low enough to easily make 500% profit on every coral sold even at "fair" prices

 

[eg8r210]

Scammers who con people out of that money are actually hurting our hobby.

You keep talking about these supposed scammers but in this thread it was an auction.

 

[eg8r210]

Let's look at what the real issue is, and that's education.

The people who are saying the market is screwed by scammers who are destroying the hobby have been on here for around 6 or more years. The people who are saying "supply and demand are words I don't fully get" have been on here for an average of sliiiiightly over one year. That's not coincidence, that's an informed side of a debate and an uninformed side passing themselves off as the same thing thanks to the beauty of the internet.

LOL, you really don't know what "informed" means. Spending time on this forum doesn't make you any more informed than joe blow off the street that has had a saltwater tank for 20 years and never messed with the forum.

 

[Duke4130]

You keep talking about these supposed scammers but in this thread it was an auction.

In my long winded reply...LOL... This is what I wrote.... No scam, no LFS or collector blowing up the price...


"Getting back to the Krakatoa... Everyone is forgetting one key thing here.... It was an auction with a finishing price that was set by the people. It wasn't a LFS asking a ridiculous price for a polyp it was hobbyist themselves setting the value of this thing. Don't think that the bid was getting ran up because I talked to a couple of people that were bidding on it. It was down to who wanted it more and what was someone willing to pay for its rarity.... That is what the uproar is about.... It was hobbyist that set the price so high not the named collector or the LFS... That is my $.02 "

 

[pmcarbrey]

In my long winded reply...LOL... This is what I wrote.... No scam, no LFS or collector blowing up the price...


"Getting back to the Krakatoa... Everyone is forgetting one key thing here.... It was an auction with a finishing price that was set by the people. It wasn't a LFS asking a ridiculous price for a polyp it was hobbyist themselves setting the value of this thing. Don't think that the bid was getting ran up because I talked to a couple of people that were bidding on it. It was down to who wanted it more and what was someone willing to pay for its rarity.... That is what the uproar is about.... It was hobbyist that set the price so high not the named collector or the LFS... That is my $.02 "

Thank you Duke, and congrats on the win! I considered bidding on them myself but just didnt bite soon enough!

I don't get how anyone thinks they can tell a person how much is okay to spend on their corals, people will pay what they want for what they want, end of story. No amount of arguing or convincing will ever change that.

 

[organism]

Before I continue: I also own a fish store? dont believe me?

No, I sure don't, it's already apparent due to the questions you've asked on here regarding reef tanks. It's such an outright lie that it's just embarrassing that you'd think anyone would believe it.

So with a total of 7 years on the business end of this hobby I feel like I can make statements on this, but please, continue referencing me coming for advice to confirm something I already suspected as a reason to simply ignore what I am saying.

7 years and you don't know anything about reefs, but have a coral shop?

Also: as far as expansion of the hobby goes, local fish stores are being ground down by online sales, I'm seeing less and less of people coming in wanting the bread and butter zoas, even when I price them at $1-2 per polyp or even less in some cases, which compared to most retail establishments is dirt cheap.

Except when you sell them on reefcentral for up to 15x that amount?

What people come to me with money for are the designer zoas. That's why I ordered nightmares, darth mauls, and gods of war. People ask for designer zoas by name and want to pay $20 or more per polyp for some of them!

1. You don't know anything about coral lighting and think you can keep SPS under PC's, but you have corals in your shop?

2. You "ordered" nightmares and darth mauls? Wholesalers don't sell those. Did you take money out of your "coral fund" to get them?

Side note: coral wholesale prices aren't half as high as you think they are

Yes, they are, unlike your fictitious resume I've actually worked for a pretty long time in the industry side of the hobby. If you're going to debate, then debate, but don't lie and grandstand to boost your already limited credibility.

 

[organism]

LOL, you really don't know what "informed" means. Spending time on this forum doesn't make you any more informed than joe blow off the street that has had a saltwater tank for 20 years and never messed with the forum.

You cycled your first tank in 2011 and are telling me what "informed" means without researching my credibility? Classy.

 

[pmcarbrey]

No, I sure don't, it's already apparent due to the questions you've asked on here regarding reef tanks. It's such an outright lie that it's just embarrassing that you'd think anyone would believe it.



7 years and you don't know anything about reefs, but have a coral shop?



Except when you sell them on reefcentral for up to 15x that amount?



1. You don't know anything about coral lighting and think you can keep SPS under PC's, but you have corals in your shop?

2. You "ordered" nightmares and darth mauls? Wholesalers don't sell those. Did you take money out of your "coral fund" to get them?



Yes, they are, unlike your fictitious resume I've actually worked for a pretty long time in the industry side of the hobby. If you're going to debate, then debate, but don't lie and grandstand to boost your already limited credibility.

Want me to PM you my license number just to prove a point? maybe then you can address the issue instead of focusing on how stupid I must be.

Great job addressing any of the points Made by the people willing to pay these prices though, I'm sure if you take the time to discredit everyone in this thread you'll change the world. :uhoh3:

Also: might ask DC why he gave me a warning for mentioning I was commercial then

If you want to have an actual debate about issues shoot me (or anyone else in this thread) a PM, if you're going to continue just attacking the people willing to pay and sell go ahead and keep it up! :facepalm:

Can you please explain to me why everyone who sells corals at a high price is a scammer? especially the seller of these zoas?

Or maybe even take the time to cool down and do this in a logical reasonable manner? Attacking individuals over an internet forum isn't very effective, and whether or not you believe me, why not respond to anything duke has said? is it perhaps because despite the fact that you are willing to call nameless sellers scammers you realize that no matter what your opinions are, telling a person they can't pay as much as they feel comfortable for something they want is absurd? :wildone: