Krakatoa Zoa?

[NyReefNoob]

I know back in the day, you would have never see this absurd pricing " IN GENERAL " for single polyps. im not one to keep up with the jones nor be on top.

lol remember colonies of the different hornets for $50 most i ever paid was $80 for a colony that had 5 different zoa's and around 200 polyps,

Keep in mind that prices go both way. Do you believe Indonesian do not know the price now? The whole world is connected and information is almost instantly known at the other end.
first colony may get away with it, they wont miss the chance when second wave going out. Ask yourself if you will still sell $1 to someone who can sell for $500?

You must not have a clue to import or wholesale pricing, whether indo, aust, phil and so forth. Aust is highest though. What your store pays for something, few places cherry pick stuff, find a oddball piece now it is limited, then few months later there is a 1000 colonies coming in, these guys sit on them cause they see a few guys will pay crazy money to rush and take a photo of their $500 polyp that may or may not ever grow lol dont see alot of updated photo's following them awesome zoa's.
I've been collecting zoa's on and off for almost a decade, i do see a few nice morphs coming in, and these awesome photo's of what a zoa won't look like in person. I mean be realistic how often are you going to use a camera and macro in to see that version of the zoa. But i don't hold it against you. Your money. If people dont pay that off the top then it will never reach those crazy pricing causing the market price of a individual polyp wont be high.
There's a few people on here that have been keeping zoa's for decades on here, please understand we watched the camera turn our love of palys and zoa's into the stock market.

 

[650-IS350]

but the collectors and benifiters that want to keep the mystic will say other wise.

 

[A. Grandis]

Everything began when they "invented the fragging".

The prices for the fragged zoas and corals were a bit higher because supposedly they would have to charge more once they would need to use extra electricity, keeping with the maintenance and months to let the colonies/frags growing. The initial idea was to grow from stablished captive colonies from scratch, fragging them periodically. A nice "green" intention, firmly taught/spread through GARF (mid 90's).

To the best of my knowledge GARF never taught to chop wild colonies, but to grow captive colonies and frag them to distribute/exchange in local clubs' meetings. A good idea!
They did sell their own frags to keep with the programs.

So, like with the captive bred fishes, the market "had to understand" and accept the fact of the "new good green deal". Save the reefs!!!

BUT, wild colonies were still coming in and the new idea of the fragging captive hardy organisms was growing and with the "green mind" many embraced it chopping the wild ones too, of course...

So the GARF idea was taken by many and soon the market was corrupted by the chop-chop talk and we could see the white plugs with recently chopped wild colonies. If you look carefully you still can find lots of those online for sale!!!

Cartoon names for zoas was then a need because they would have to point their merchandise in order to sell them in a well organized way.

The abuse of the prices came with time, which is no surprise when many of the hobbyists were willing to pay, entering the money game.

This story has no end, and it will be more exciting when prices get even higher than they are!!!!! Be ready!!!

We just can't prevent it to happen because there is no way to let all the newbies know. Besides that, many people, not only the newbies, just love the way things are happening, so it is just one more story...

I am just one of us that brings the facts here and I know that it won't change much until many of us decide to really do something. With all the respect.

That's ok to do what you want, and to pay how much you're wiling for your zoas and corals. This is just to let the truth of the facts in words. Not to make you feel bad.
But it would be god if you could try to think about this words for a bit.

Grandis.

 

[650-IS350]

zoa's into the stock market.

or like the crazy house pricing craze mid 2007's... lmao

 

[frostyjay1]

WOW how amazing that looks!!!

 

[organism]

So the GARF idea was taken by many and soon the market was corrupted by the chop-chop talk and we could see the white plugs with recently chopped wild colonies. If you look carefully you still can find lots of those online for sale!!!

I find myself having to look everywhere pretty carefully just to find the ones that aren't on white plugs. It used to be almost insulting for a vendor to post a coral for sale on a new white plug, people would be like dude that's going to die why are you such a douche.

 

[eg8r210]

And...

... there are many here that are still continuing to defend this type of ridiculous business strategy with their "supply and demand" flags.

Do you think the practice would continue if people quit paying these prices? Supply and demand drives it all. I presume al lot of the "supply" is artificial but if people are paying, and you can tell by that Krakatoa auction the demand is certainly there, what do you think will happen?

 

[650-IS350]

Too bad on ebay u can't see who's been bidding anymore..... oh wells

 

[A. Grandis]

And...

... there are many here that are still continuing to defend this type of ridiculous business strategy with their "supply and demand" flags.

Do you think the practice would continue if people quit paying these prices?

If people quit paying those absurd prices there will be no way for this crazy business to continue, of course.

Supply and demand drives it all.

Nope.
Supply and demand are related to availability and quantity.
That's why people get confused. They think the polyps are unique and limited edition. To tell the truth there is no demand for that, but the corrupted market drives the pictures of demand.

I presume al lot of the "supply" is artificial but if people are paying, and you can tell by that Krakatoa auction the demand is certainly there, what do you think will happen?

What do you mean by "all the "supply" is artificial"?
It's all artificial. It's like collection of pictures, stamps and other material junk.
There is no demand really. They invent the demand. People play the money game and others just join it. There is proud and too much money in their pockets. Truth spoken!!
That's why this is going on. But that's not my business anyway. They are free to do what they want. No problem...

There will be no way to stop this anymore because it became normal already.

There are 2 types of people in the hobby today:
1) The ones that still follow the "primary rules" and try to imitate the natural environment when setting up their systems. Those people were used to the old style when they used to buy colonies or frags for a fair price, according to their sizes.
2) The ones who just buy the organisms to trade/change/collect. Most of them aren't happy and the need to change, arrange and buy is aways there. Many of them are strong enough to admit and willing to change their attitude towards the trade.

Both of them need the respect because this is a free country!!
I just wish that both would assume their posts when discussions like this comes up.
Either you're reefer of a trader.

Grandis.

 

[eg8r210]

Too bad on ebay u can't see who's been bidding anymore..... oh wells

Yes, if you ask me this is shady. The seller can easily be bumping their own stuff to keep the price up.

 

[TRENT_G]

Yes, if you ask me this is shady. The seller can easily be bumping their own stuff to keep the price up.

Well people don't have to keep bidding do they? :debi:

 

[eg8r210]

Nope.
Supply and demand are related to availability and quantity.
That's why people get confused. They think the polyps are unique and limited edition. To tell the truth there is no demand for that, but the corrupted market drives the pictures of demand.

Availability and quantity are both related to the supply side of supply/demand.

What do you mean by "all the "supply" is artificial"?
It's all artificial. It's like collection of pictures, stamps and other material junk.
There is no demand really. They invent the demand. People play the money game and others just join it. There is proud and too much money in their pockets. Truth spoken!!
That's why this is going on. But that's not my business anyway. They are free to do what they want. No problem...

By artificial I mean the people selling these high dollar polyps are only releasing/selling in limited qty at a time to make it appear as if there are not many available. Red hornets were crazy priced for a long time till people noticed they grow like a weed and the price has dropped considerably. Supply and demand at its best.

There will be no way to stop this anymore because it became normal already.

You are probably right. Sort of like the price of gasoline. People like to boycott gas companies thinking that gets their "voice" heard. It means nothing. However, if everyone started carpooling, using mass transit, and riding bikes for a year or more then that would start to make change. I don't see it as a problem because I buy what I like and if it is too expensive then I either save for it or I wait till the price dropped. My dream car is a Porsche but I cannot afford it while my kids are in private schooling. I would love a Krakatoa zoa but I there are other things I can get now while I wait for the price of that to go down. I don't in any way believe my reefing experience is being tarnished because of this.

There are 2 types of people in the hobby today:
1) The ones that still follow the "primary rules" and try to imitate the natural environment when setting up their systems. Those people were used to the old style when they used to buy colonies or frags for a fair price, according to their sizes.
2) The ones who just buy the organisms to trade/change/collect. Most of them aren't happy and the need to change, arrange and buy is aways there. Many of them are strong enough to admit and willing to change their attitude towards the trade.

LOL, I think the 2 types are the crazy people that actually think there were ever any type of "rule" and then the others that just enjoy the hobby in a way that is pleasing to them.

Both of them need the respect because this is a free country!!
I just wish that both would assume their posts when discussions like this comes up.
Either you're reefer of a trader.

Grandis.

I think your black/white view of reefer/trader is probably equally detrimental to the hobby than any perceived detriment due to cartoon names and high prices.

 

[eg8r210]

Well people don't have to keep bidding do they? :debi:

I don't understand your point. If I want it bad enough, I make sure I know what the going price is and I don't go over my preset amount. That keeps me as satisfied as possible with the known risk that the seller could be shady.

 

[A. Grandis]

Availability and quantity are both related to the supply side of supply/demand.

What about demand? Availability and quantity plays with that too. It's a mutual relationship. If you have too much available you won't want as much...

By artificial I mean the people selling these high dollar polyps are only releasing/selling in limited qty at a time to make it appear as if there are not many available. Red hornets were crazy priced for a long time till people noticed they grow like a weed and the price has dropped considerably. Supply and demand at its best.

Yep. All fake or " artificial" supply/demand.

You are probably right. Sort of like the price of gasoline. People like to boycott gas companies thinking that gets their "voice" heard. It means nothing. However, if everyone started carpooling, using mass transit, and riding bikes for a year or more then that would start to make change. I don't see it as a problem because I buy what I like and if it is too expensive then I either save for it or I wait till the price dropped. My dream car is a Porsche but I cannot afford it while my kids are in private schooling. I would love a Krakatoa zoa but I there are other things I can get now while I wait for the price of that to go down. I don't in any way believe my reefing experience is being tarnished because of this.

That's a good way to live. You're doing good!

LOL, I think the 2 types are the crazy people that actually think there were ever any type of "rule" and then the others that just enjoy the hobby in a way that is pleasing to them.

As long as they are happy, that's what matters most!!!
Once they're not so happy and worried, stressed out, that isn't good for them.

I think your black/white view of reefer/trader is probably equally detrimental to the hobby than any perceived detriment due to cartoon names and high prices.

Thanks for your opinion!
There is probably a gray side to it too: the newbies that won't be able to decide what category they fall into because they won't see discussions like this.
Most times those aren't happy with their plugged tanks, but they try to follow their masters of white plug$.
Have you met any of those? It's sad, but some times they wake up and become good reefers sharing frags and growing in knowledge.

Grandis.

 

[eg8r210]

Cartoon names + 1-5 polyps on white plugs = easy money!!!
Really? Try to become a reefer, not a "plugger", please!

I like your sig.

 

[leveldrummer]

I don't understand your point. If I want it bad enough, I make sure I know what the going price is and I don't go over my preset amount. That keeps me as satisfied as possible with the known risk that the seller could be shady.

Its near impossible to asses worth in these cases, most of the polyps are named by the collector, so there is no search that will give an idea of worth of a "krakatoa zoa". the colors are exaggerated so you cant even tell if thats what your getting or not. how can you judge the supply or demand of something unique and falsely represented?

 

[organism]

Nope.
Supply and demand are related to availability and quantity.
That's why people get confused. They think the polyps are unique and limited edition. To tell the truth there is no demand for that, but the corrupted market drives the pictures of demand.

Well put, the "supply and demand" argument for corals pretty much just showcases how little the person making the argument understands economics...

 

[eg8r210]

Its near impossible to asses worth in these cases, most of the polyps are named by the collector, so there is no search that will give an idea of worth of a "krakatoa zoa". the colors are exaggerated so you cant even tell if thats what your getting or not. how can you judge the supply or demand of something unique and falsely represented?

Worth is what you are willing to pay. As far as judging supply and demand that has nothing to do with the colors you see on a pic. Take a look at the auction and tell me if someone actually paid $800+ for the frag. Demand is obviously there or the price would not sky rocket. Supply certainly isn't or the price would never go that high.

 

[leveldrummer]

Worth is what you are willing to pay. As far as judging supply and demand that has nothing to do with the colors you see on a pic. Take a look at the auction and tell me if someone actually paid $800+ for the frag. Demand is obviously there or the price would not sky rocket. Supply certainly isn't or the price would never go that high.

Do you think the person that sold that only had 2 polyps available? or do you think there is a better chance that this person got a rock of a few hundred that was collected from the wild, and intends to break them into 1 or 2 polyp frags and try to slowly release them keeping the price sky high.

Being stupid and paying too much for a polyp does not equal high demand.

 

[NyReefNoob]

that rare bull crap cracks me up, or limited supply. the collector isnt naming them, the hobbist is. ive got 30+ different morphs or zoa's and palies in my tank and have been collecting them on and off for ten years and could probably only tell you the name of ten of them, was going through some old pic's and found alot of the same zoa's that are just coming out and being named that i had 5 years plus ago, the lighting is whats making alot of old zoa's look like a new morph, here's one in general, the mind blowing paly, under 14k looks brown with a light green circle, under my blue leds looks like some crazy morph same with several others. i dont knock you if your one of the guys paying the crazy money, but dont be upset when people laugh at it or make a comment