Leopard Wrasse Primer

[Ralph ATL]

Dave,
I "chimed in" to try and convey my personal experiences with these incredible fishes, and what has worked well for me personally when caring for this species. What is the "œideal" set up and habitat in my opinion for each species of marine fish, and what can work are two completely different things. There are several people on this forum alone that have successfully maintained a single Macropharyngodon, including Choat's Leopards, successfully on a long term basis in reef aquaria with dissimilar species of fish.

Obtaining healthy fishes that have been harvested and handled properly, then conditioning them to offer the best possible examples for sale to hobbyists is not only challenging, but is extremely labor intensive, costly, and time consuming. Obtaining groups of healthy Choat's Leopard Wrasse is even more challenging.

All of our staff at the Drs. Foster and Smith Aquaculture Coral and Marine Life Facility work diligently, spending an immense amount of time and effort bringing healthy and conditioned fish to market. This is very costly to execute and run this type of business model, and I can assure you that this is more of a passion, as opposed to being greedy. If greed was in fact the answer, then turning and burring the livestock would be our "œModus operandi "œwith the Divers Den fishes, and that we DO NOT DO for the benefit of our valued customers.

Regards,

IMHO, liveaquaria especially Diver's Den & Kevin are the Best Company to buy livestock from............no actually, They are the best company that I have ever dealt with in the retail/service industry period. They beat Ritz-Carlton because they provide that same level of service, but keep it real.

Ralph Scheriff

 

[iamwrasseman]

i agree they are the best and certainly could have chosen better wording for my surprise when i saw a single juvenile being sold as it was explained to me that its pretty much a no no .sorry for the harsh wording as i could have expressed my concerns in a different manner .its just that i contacted you guys and got a "blanket" letterhead and explanation which somewhat disturbed me as it did noy pertain to my question at hand rather answered nothing .it was customer service that i had contacted .

 

[Ralph ATL]

i agree they are the best and certainly could have chosen better wording for my surprise when i saw a single juvenile being sold as it was explained to me that its pretty much a no no .sorry for the harsh wording as i could have expressed my concerns in a different manner .its just that i contacted you guys and got a "blanket" letterhead and explanation which somewhat disturbed me as it did noy pertain to my question at hand rather answered nothing .it was customer service that i had contacted .

Dave, I am only speaking from my own personal expediences, I have no knowledge of what transpired between you and DD, FWIW.

 

[iamwrasseman]

its all good as i didnt mean to ruffle any feathers as a matter of fact when i tried to contact DD through RC they said the sponser was no longer replying on RC for some reason that i dont remember.
just water unnder the bridge , i would like to but that cute little guy but i just can't as i have been in the process to do it correctly as i was instructed was the best option .and now ?

 

[DFS]

Dave,
I would like to apologize for your dissatisfaction with the response you received to your question from customer service, so I will try and elaborate further.

For any marine fish species that we maintain in home aquaria, the best possible scenario is to provide that species with a well established display, populated with natural food sources, in a habitat that is conducive for them to dominate in the display and thrive. This is unrealistic for most folks as we tend to mix numerous species in home aquaria as the space and cost are normally the limiting factors. Although I am sure that some of us would love to have 20 marine aquariums at home, where some are dedicated species specific displays, the cost and upkeep on these tanks would be exorbitant and unrealistic.

What is the best possible scenario and what can be accomplished with mixing species is oftentimes a trade off when stocking our displays. A healthy Choat's Leopard Wrasse, like numerous other fishes that are a bit more challenging to maintain, can do well in my opinion long term in a mixed reef fish display as long as they are provided the correct habitat, fed properly, and not stressed or harassed by conspecific fishes.

Regards,

 

[iamwrasseman]

completely understand what you are saying as i have been searching the perfect specimen ,conditions ,aquascaping ,water parameters ,and even the possibility of tank mates . to this point i have struck out at least 12 times with the choati's and have been successful 98% of the time with all other wrasses including all the leopards . so i am perplexed at what is missing but rather concerned that although some get lucky keeping them that they should be left on the reef . i very well may be missing something in there requirements but i am at wits end to what it is .
i would estimate that i have spent $2500 or more on the ever elusive choati leopard wrasse with a 0% rate of sucess .needless to mention the thousands for live food cultures and their housing requirements ,tank setups and medications .my next endeavor is going to be a large group of them as i have failed with 1,2,or 3 of them at a time .its hard for me to comprehend what else i could possibly do to ensure their health .to me its the overall stress of the collection,holding,and shipping process and its length before we actually get them .
boy i must also include that every single choati that i have purchased looked healthy ,fat ,and attentive upon receiving them but much to my dismay shortly after introduction into many ,many different tanks and settings they all die fat and healthy looking much to my dismay . i wonder how they are kept this well right until i get them or if they have a clock ticking and i just get them when they are going to perish regardless of my efforts .
do you have any specific information on their husbandry or what you have written above is your specified requirements ? i have done provided the above requirements many times with negative results which leads me to believe that i am missing something .i have unlimited resources to accomplish this and i have spent thousands in an attempt to house such a fish .this is the reason that i haven't purchased that beauty on DD right now .
please if you have any additional information on their housing requirements let us know as you would sell every one that you could get your hands on if they had a chance to be housed in a reef tank for years to come . there are at least a dozen of us here that are very interested in them and would certainly own a few if it was possable .
thanks for at least listening to me vent ?
Dave

 

[DFS]

Dave,
I am sorry to read about your struggles with this species, and I will try to elaborate further. Like other Macropharyngodon spp. these fishes can and do suffer from improper handling along with a multitude of other stressors that can affect them down the road. This genus of Labroid fishes requires very delicate handling, as they are very skittish and highly sensitive to light upon arrival, and must be acclimated properly to temperature, specific gravity, and pH. They can go into shock very easily and are extremely sensitive to fluctuations in temperature, water chemistry and dissolved oxygen levels.

I have stated previously in numerous threads here on RC as well as in an article in the first ReefLife Magazine, this species surely is not for everyone. If one has the experience needed to properly acclimate and care for this species, as well as the proper environment to maintain them, and is willing and able to put the time in to feed these fishes relentlessly for several weeks until they are fully settled into their new home, they can do well long term.

Once acclimated properly, the best scenario is to maintain them in an old, very well established habitat that has a 2"-4" layer fine sand to meet their burrowing instincts so they feel comfortable. Keeping them stress free with no harassment from other tank mates or from their owner will allow them time to adjust to their new environment and settle in with the least amount of stress.

Assuming one obtains quality fishes that have been harvested, handled and conditioned properly; the next challenging step is feeding and proper diet. These fishes hunt for food almost constantly but will soon rely more and more on supplemented foods. Feeding these fishes throughout the day with the proper foods along with maintaining them in very stable, clean water conditions at temperatures of 76 to 77 degrees is a must, as they do not fare well at elevated water temperatures. Supplementation of small frozen mysis as well as live and frozen artemia is critical. This can be accomplished by enriching freshly thawed and drained frozen food in Amino Acid and other vitamin supplements. There are plenty of quality enrichment products available and their use at every feeding is extremely important to help boost the fishes' immune system and allows them to regain their strength.

Last but not least, and in my opinion the most critical, is having the proper time to feed them throughout the day for the first few weeks or even for the first month. Offering very small quantities of food ten or more times per day will provide them with the nutrition needed to get them through the critical first few weeks of their transition into their new environment.

These are the steps that have worked well for me over the years, and all of them are critical, playing an important role in determining how this species will fare long term in the home aquaria.
Regards,

 

[96gts]

Kevin,
If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious what is the success rate of the Choati Leopards you received at Liveaquaria? And usually how long before they were sold/shipped?

Thanks,
Jason

 

[curlykid]

Hey guys! Love the beautiful leopards in here! I wanted to know if a kuiter's leopard wrasse would be okay by itself in a year old 30 gallon aquarium by itself with 25 lbs of LR, and 3 inch sandbed. I'm ready to order a 1" one from live aquaria. In about 4 months the contents will be moved to 80 gallon lagoon tank. I imagine it won't grow more than an inch in that time, so i figure it will be fine. Is this setup okay for the little guy? I read that these are also the smallest of the leopards, so i'm sure he could grow old in the 30 gallon. I also run a very large amount of carbon and phos-ban on the tank, along with bi-weekly 20% water changes, so water quality is normally very stable. I'm sure some people may disagree with this, but i repeat, it is being moved to an 80 gallon in a few months.

 

[Ralph ATL]

As always, THANKS KEVIN! Great information as usual!

 

[iamwrasseman]

hey Kevin i see the choati sold today and i wish him the best for sure !
what i am wondering is if you could be more specific in you requirements for housing such a fish as i do understand what you have posted but its a bit vague to say the least .we all know that am,ni,na,po4,and some other metals should be as low as possable . my tanks are on a common sump and read as follows could you clue me in on what parameter may be off for a choati to exist in a reef or fish only tank .
ca 390
dkh 9-10
mag 1500-1600
po4 .001
am 0
ni 0
na 0-5
ph 8.0
temp 76-78
dose bionic part 1 daily ,part 2 every 2nd or 3rd day to maintain dkh and ca
copper never used in system and at 0
i have etts monster skimmer
use gfo
use carbon at 1qt per 2 weeks
75gal. sump with mud
grape caulerpa on a 24hr light regimen to keep it from going asexual ,i remove approx i qt per week .
tanks are 52 corner,2 55gal.,2 90gal.,29gal. so its approx 250 gallons , my sump holds 50gal and i have two Rubbermaid vats 100gal. each for volume .
so i have about 500 gallons of water total .
i have a 55gal mixed aggressive wrasse tank , never tried choati's there
a 90 with 4 M bipartius ,2 comet wrasses and 2 cleaner wrasses tried 3 different times choati's
a 55gal with potters ,2black,ornatitus,2 red sea twister tamrin wrasses ,CBB,M&fmale bipartitus, tried two times in that tank with choati's
a 90gal empty tank that i have tried 2x with choati's
a29gal with yellow tail tamrin,2 M melegris,potters,twister wrasse,and a sand sifting goby that all are juviniles less than 2" ,have tried 3x there with choati's
a 52 corner with no fish just inverts ,tried one time with choati's
all tanks have 2" to 4" carrib sea reef sand ,very smooth sugar sized basically .
all tanks are reef tanks with many orals mostly mushrooms in one tank ,lps in all other tanks with very little sps corals .all tanks have a couple of Georgians in them also .there are a few other corals but nothing very aggressive to speak of .
which setting if any would be the best in your opinion ?
is there something that is in every tank that is detrimental to choat's?
i think my 90 with no tank mates is the best option .
all tanks have cleanup crews consisting of nassarius ,red legged hermits .tonga and a bunch of misc.snails .
i also have a great acclimation area in my sump that i drip in and it keeps the fish water at the temp of the tanks when acclimating .
acclimation procedure done in as dark as possable ,quite dark .
acclimation period usually 3to4 hrs .
one time there was a delay in shipment and i temp acclimated and fish went directly into display tank .
i use prazi pro for parasite removal every time
lights out for a couple of days usually
all tanks are lit by t-5s and all have pfo moonlight leds
sorry for jumping around and i may have forgotten something that is pertinent but i think i have most info there .
any thoughts on what i am doing wrong ?
i do understand that i could get bad batches of fish but have bought from live aquaria,blue zoo, and my lfs which gets them from quality marine , fish heads and one other facility that i can't remember .
all fish from lfs were purchased from the bag as they never were introduced to there tanks .
i usually start with live brine shrimp and they all eat that
i have purchased live mysids shrimp on four attempts and they ate that with vigor
all fish were fed "pe mysis" and gobbled it up ,it was also treated with selcon or GVH depending on time and batches
i work 1/4 mile from home and came home 4-6 times during the day to feed also had live brine hatchery hooked up for constant feeding on two occasions .
all choati's ate very often and well as they died fat and very healthy looking
total feeding per day were close to 10 times for the first 2 weeks for the ones that lived that long .never were they overfed to the point of decaying matter being left over and it did not cause any spikes in water conditions .
again sorry for jumping around but there is so much info i am tryng to give you .any input would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance
Dave

also the choati's were accepted 99% of the time by tank mates with absolutely no aggression and tanks were off limits to people traffic sometimes blanketed with blue bed spread to give them no outside distractions or stress .

 

[DFS]

Kevin,
If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious what is the success rate of the Choati Leopards you received at Liveaquaria? And usually how long before they were sold/shipped?

Thanks,
Jason

Jason,
The success rate with this species which are not harvested all that frequently varies considerable as environmental factors and transit times have a significant influence on how well they fare for us as well. The best specimens we receive into our Rhinelander Wisconsin Aquaculture Coral and Marine Life Facility and we are most successful with are ones shipped directly from the exporter, and they do not sit in an importers facility prior to them being shipped onto us.

All of the Divers Den fishes are held, quarantined, and conditioned for a minimum of two weeks prior to being offered for sale. The exact time frame is determined by the fish themselves as they must be eating very well and displaying normal behavior for the species prior to listing them in the Divers Den section of the LiveAquaria.com web site.

Cheers,

 

[96gts]

Thanks for the info.

 

[DFS]

what i am wondering is if you could be more specific in you requirements for housing such a fish as i do understand what you have posted but its a bit vague to say the least.

Dave,
I am not sure how much more specific I can get as I have been as detailed and thorough as possible with conveying my protocols and experience with this species, but to answer your specific questions here goes:

we all know that am,ni,na,po4,and some other metals should be as low as possable . my tanks are on a common sump and read as follows could you clue me in on what parameter may be off for a choati to exist in a reef or fish only tank
ca 390
dkh 9-10
mag 1500-1600
po4 .001
am 0
ni 0
na 0-5
ph 8.0
temp 76-78.

Water parameters are very important with this species as I stated previously. If I could suggest trying to lower your magnesium level down to somewhere closer to NSW, in the 1250-1350 range that is a good place to start. Secondly, your nitrate or NO3 level (I would assume that is what na stand for in your post) is a bit excessive at 5 ppm. I would target 0.1-0.5 by performing more frequent water changes using a quality salt mix and RO/DI water. Third, your pH ideally should be maintained at 8.2-8.4 with a specific gravity of 1.025. Fourth, I would suggest making sure your water temperature is stable and does not fluctuate more than one degree per day, keeping it at 76-77 degrees. The remainder of your parameters appears to be within an acceptable range, but I would also suggest keeping an eye on the DO (Dissolved Oxygen) levels of your system.

dose bionic part 1 daily ,part 2 every 2nd or 3rd day to maintain dkh and ca.

Manual dosing two part solutions can oftentimes spike the alkalinity for short periods of time which goes against ensuring that the water parameters are stable. If I could suggest looking into a twin dosing system if you are set on using 2 part, or a calcium reactor, I think you will have a much easier time stabilizing the alkalinity level in the aquarium.

have a 55gal mixed aggressive wrasse tank , never tried choati's there
a 90 with 4 M bipartius ,2 comet wrasses and 2 cleaner wrasses tried 3 different times choati's
a 55gal with potters ,2black,ornatitus,2 red sea twister tamrin wrasses ,CBB,M&fmale bipartitus, tried two times in that tank with choati's
a 90gal empty tank that i have tried 2x with choati's
a29gal with yellow tail tamrin,2 M melegris,potters,twister wrasse,and a sand sifting goby that all are juviniles less than 2" ,have tried 3x there with choati's
a 52 corner with no fish just inverts ,tried one time with choati's.

which setting if any would be the best in your opinion ?
is there something that is in every tank that is detrimental to choat's?.

You definitely have quite the collection of Labroids. As long as the 52 gallon corner or 90 gallon have an abundance of micro fauna and plenty of established live rock for adequate hiding placed either set up would be ideal, as it appears most of your other aquariums are pretty densely packed.

i use prazi pro for parasite removal every time

I would recommend letting the fish settle in and start feeding very well prior to exposing them to any medications even Prazi. Once at that point then the use of Praziquantel on their food once per day for 10 days works well.

any thoughts on what i am doing wrong ?.

It definitely sounds like you are on the right track, but without me being there to observe your husbandry techniques I cannot offer any more suggestions off the top of my head.

i work 1/4 mile from home and came home 4-6 times during the day to feed also had live brine hatchery hooked up for constant feeding on two occasions .
all choati's ate very often and well as they died fat and very healthy looking
total feeding per day were close to 10 times for the first 2 weeks for the ones that lived that long .never were they overfed to the point of decaying matter being left over and it did not cause any spikes in water conditions .

Once again it sounds like you are on the right track here, but again I cant stress enough focusing on enrichment, feeding regime and frequency which are all critical if you are starting with healthy specimens.

Regards,

 

[iamwrasseman]

thanks Kevin for your insight as i will use your advise to get my tanks on the right track and someday i may even be able to house a choati leopard . ya just never know what tomorrow will bring .

 

[aznepydna]

I bought the first Potters Wrasse that was sold on DD this month. The fish is stunningly beautiful and eats PE mysis, NLS pellets, Omega One flakes, and a homemade frozen food. I am feeding it five times daily. I even noticed that I have not seen any planaria since adding him to my 180 gallon sps dominated reef tank. I did freak out yesterday when I got home from work to find him white as a ghost. There was no color in him at all. I thought that he would be a goner when I got home from work today but to my suprise he looks as good as the day he arrived. Full coloration with no sign of anything abnormal. Any ideas as to why he would lose his color for just one day. Thanks.

Andy

 

[curlykid]

would anyone mind answering my post please. Thanks. wrasseman, i wish you luck on the choatis. I'm sure you will find luck with these guys eventually. It was very hard for me to keep deepwater anthias, but 4th time was the charm. yeah, bump on my post!

 

[iamwrasseman]

sorry curlykid ,i was a bit distracted by my own endeavors and now were back on track . i must admit i have never had a kuiter leopard wrasse but they are stunning . as for their specific requirements i would imagine that if your tank has been up and running for some time and has a good pod population along with the proper parameters being taken into consideration that you certainly could hose one in your tank . any wrasse in a tank unless its totally massive will decimate the pod population in short time . during this time you will have the chance to introduce frozen ,pelleted or flake food that will sustain him for years to come . i would go for it as they are beautiful and yes one of the smaller leopards which is in your favor because of your tank size . you should try to get a fuge going so that there will be somewhat a constant supply of live pods entering the tank as this is really what he wants to eat . it is completely possable to keep him IMO .
also i wish you the best and there are few here that have had one because of their relative rarity in the aquarium trade but someone may key in with some specific information .also if i may ask where are they available ?PM me if you like with specifics as i also would be interested in such a fish .
thanks,good luck! and keep us posted
Dave

 

[iamwrasseman]

andy i dont know why but my potters displays a few different color intensities and sometimes he is wicked vibrant and others he gets somewhat drab . i have had two of them for a couple of years and just got a third and the two older ones seem to do this from time to time . one of them is huge ,say 5"-6" and he really differs in coloration form hour to hour . all of my other leopards never display this except my M negrosensis adult male changes in intensity also . how large is yours and is it male or female ,adult or juvenile ? interesting ~

 

[aznepydna]

Dave,

Mine is an adult male and about 5 inches.

Andy