I've heard alot of talk about Mandarin gobies becoming endangered because of the massive number harvested every year for the marine aquarium hobby. Is the threat for Mandarins greater than for other fish? If so I wouldn't want to by anymore I had one for about two yers and he jumped out of the tank. If they are endangered, are there any large captive breeding attempts going on?
Mandarin Dragonettes
- Thread starter sean1
- Start date
I haven't heard much on the Mandarins (I'll have to dig into that one), but the Bangai Cardinals are well known to have had a major decrease in their numbers. Enough so that they are on the IUCN Red List and attempts have been made to place them on CITES.
Well, I just checked and there are no Synchiropus species listed on the IUCN Redlist. This means that Mandarins are not "offically" threatened or endangered. However, there is a lag time for a species to get listed, so its possible for something to happen them very fast and not get them listed. However, most of those cases are at least given a "data defficient" status which gives you some heads up as to potential future problems.
I did a study where I compared the 1984 wholesale market values to 2004 values of a selection of marine aquarium animals. Mandarins showed a 26% decrease in their cost over those 20 years - so if they are becming rare, it hasn't showed up as a trend in the market by 2004.
1984 Adj. 2004 % change
Mandarin dragonet $6.00 $9.06 $6.50 -28.3%
I have no doubt that mandarins have become locally over-collected, and perhaps even locally extinct in some areas. Clues to this being a serious problem would be the same with ANY wild harvested organisms - increasing price, decreasing availibility, often coupled with decreasing size of the fish.
Jay
I did a study where I compared the 1984 wholesale market values to 2004 values of a selection of marine aquarium animals. Mandarins showed a 26% decrease in their cost over those 20 years - so if they are becming rare, it hasn't showed up as a trend in the market by 2004.
1984 Adj. 2004 % change
Mandarin dragonet $6.00 $9.06 $6.50 -28.3%
I have no doubt that mandarins have become locally over-collected, and perhaps even locally extinct in some areas. Clues to this being a serious problem would be the same with ANY wild harvested organisms - increasing price, decreasing availibility, often coupled with decreasing size of the fish.
Jay
I was watching a thing on the Discovery Channel where they were looking for Mandrins and they said that there population has been so heavily depleting because of over collecting that they were nearly impossible to find anymore. If for some reason I lost mine I would not be purchasing another.
kaptken
New member
I had a blue Mandarin for 5 or 6 years, before a power outage wiped me out. very nice little fish. It seems to me with all the resources and enthusiasm on RC we could put together some info on breeding them. and other fish too. Just like that Project DIBBS in FAMA magazine this month.
I Used to have a breeding pair of Bangai Cardinals and raised about 120 to sale size over an 18 month period, before the power outage. they are pretty easy. I thought most Bangai's sold in stores are tank raised. they are mouth brooders like a molly. Dad does most of the work holding the eggs, tongue in cheek for 3 weeks till they hatch, then holds the fry another week , then releases them at night. You just need to suck them up with a turkey baster and move the fry to a small tank by themselves, before they become FOOD!. then feed them fresh hatched brine shrimp 5 times a day or more.
Because the eggs are large, and they mouth brood, the largest batch of fry i saw was 36. 12-18 was more common. dad would spend 3-4 weeks hatching the fry, then one week of eating like theres no tommorrow, then mom got him pregnant,,.. again!
so a new batch of fry every 5-6 weeks. Dad ate one week out of five or six. He cant eat while holding the egg sacs. amazing. but while hatching eggs in his mouth he conserved energy and barely moved. Needed a quiet space and tank mates.
So has anyone raised Mandarins to sale size? How do they do it?
I Used to have a breeding pair of Bangai Cardinals and raised about 120 to sale size over an 18 month period, before the power outage. they are pretty easy. I thought most Bangai's sold in stores are tank raised. they are mouth brooders like a molly. Dad does most of the work holding the eggs, tongue in cheek for 3 weeks till they hatch, then holds the fry another week , then releases them at night. You just need to suck them up with a turkey baster and move the fry to a small tank by themselves, before they become FOOD!. then feed them fresh hatched brine shrimp 5 times a day or more.
Because the eggs are large, and they mouth brood, the largest batch of fry i saw was 36. 12-18 was more common. dad would spend 3-4 weeks hatching the fry, then one week of eating like theres no tommorrow, then mom got him pregnant,,.. again!
so a new batch of fry every 5-6 weeks. Dad ate one week out of five or six. He cant eat while holding the egg sacs. amazing. but while hatching eggs in his mouth he conserved energy and barely moved. Needed a quiet space and tank mates.
So has anyone raised Mandarins to sale size? How do they do it?
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kaptken
New member
well, i guess that is the question. what does it take to tank raise mandarins. First off, does anyone know if they lay and attach eggs to rock, or make a sand nest like salmon, or mouth brooders(small mouth, i doubt that) or planktonic larvae? their method of breeding would set the conditions to meet to breed them and other similar fish. Mouth brooders being the easiest, and planktonic larvae probably the hardest for tank systems.
Who knows?
Who knows?
The actual breeding part is easy, it's the larval rearing that is difficult. They are mid water planktonic spawners. Spawning occurs at sunset, with nice little dance into the middle of the water column. A 40 breeder is the smallest tank size I've had mandarins spawn in. Since they release the eggs into the water column, the trick than becomes collecting the eggs. Not impossible, just takes a little creativity to come up with an egg collecting system. Next up, once the eggs are collected, they need to be incubated in a tumbler or kriesel tank to keep the eggs suspended and oxygenated till hatching. Once hatched, the trick that has yet to be truly discovered is just what to feed them. The standard rots used on many fish don't do the trick.
kaptken
New member
That's Great Bill that you have had them breed for you. perhaps a good live fuge would provide the fry food. or the smallest grade of Golden Pearls fish food.
I found this article, though it has little more info.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/04/0423_mandarinfish.html
i guess it requires a tank/fuge system that wont filter the larvae or fry out of the water. or mince in a powerhead. perhaps a tank with an airstone water lift or a slow piston type flow generator like the wave2k to keep them suspended and aerated and keep the plants happy, without needing a sump or pump.
the sollution could apply to other planktonic/pelagic larvae rearing too. just some thoughts.
I found this article, though it has little more info.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/04/0423_mandarinfish.html
i guess it requires a tank/fuge system that wont filter the larvae or fry out of the water. or mince in a powerhead. perhaps a tank with an airstone water lift or a slow piston type flow generator like the wave2k to keep them suspended and aerated and keep the plants happy, without needing a sump or pump.
the sollution could apply to other planktonic/pelagic larvae rearing too. just some thoughts.
otto486
New member
Bangaii cardinals have also dropped significantly in price too (anyone have the numbers, think it cut 60-70%). Now they are extremely difficult to collect also, in some areas there are only 1-2 pairs per 100 square yards. Rareity doesn't necessarily mean an increase in price, which seems counterintuitive, but it does make sense: people are only willing to pay x amount for the fish, and demand isn't enough to drive price higher. The reason they are so overharvested is that only 25-50% make it into shops, meaning that hundreds of thousands die on the way. I would guess the mandarin faces similar problems, but thats all just analysis, so if i'm wrong PLEASE CORRECT ME.
That makes for a very good point. About 10 or 15 years ago I was paying roughly $25-$30 wholesale, now I can get them around $4 wholesale. Additionally, back when they were expensive they were also very high quality with excellent survivability. Now that they are essentially dirt cheap, the mortality rate after shipping is substantial.
linyreefer
Premium Member
In my experience they only live long in captivity with plenty of food (live food) in the tank. Tank bugs- the good ones. 
kaptken
New member
No, some madarin seem to adapt to tank life. I have had friends with madarins in fish only tanks that fed mostly on frozen brine and mysis shrimp. once they get the notion to. but wild caughts are loathe to make the switch. most will perish without a good supply of live pods and or napauli during the long transition period.
edwar050
New member
I think they need to jack up the price personally on mandarins, by like 2000K percent. I mean a fish that beautiful is 12$ and alot of new hobbiest see that they can be kept in a 55 gallon tank and say well my tanks been up for three months why not...
Now if they were about 80$'s a pop then fewer people would buy them which would probably cut nearly all of the impulse buys. I lost one after two years in a 120, it starved to death after a move.
IMAO better left in the ocean unless in a really nice tank or a very producing fuge-
Now if they were about 80$'s a pop then fewer people would buy them which would probably cut nearly all of the impulse buys. I lost one after two years in a 120, it starved to death after a move.
IMAO better left in the ocean unless in a really nice tank or a very producing fuge-
