MB7 + BioFuel (or Vodka) - Show Thread

[mrsmithers]

Here are some pics from my vodka/MB7 dosed tank.

I will try to get some FTS pic's up soon to show some better color contrast

Oh yeah, reefer08 great looking tank!

 

[byrdman81]

Do u all dose mb7 every day and does everyone turn off their skimmers for four hours like it calls for?

 

[xsboost]

The biggest difference I see is it allows me to keep LOTS of fish in a relatively small amount of water and feed them like crazy. My 175 on page 1 has 30 fish (8 of which are huge tangs/rabbit) and my 90 has close to 20 fish--5 tangs.

The 175 has 170 net gal

The 90 has 60 net gal

I incorporated vinegar to see if it would make some cyano go away and it has. 8ml of vinegar equals 1 ml of vodka. I currently dose 21.5ml of vodka and 24ml of vinegar daily on my 175 along with 24 drops of MB7. The 90 gets 8ml of vodka and 16ml of vinegar with 10 gtts of MB7 daily.

biopellets in theory would work, but it's harder to start slow and work your way up in a closed reactor.

I've been dosing for 2 years. I used the dosing schedule in the Reefkeeper magazine. I'm curious about adding a little sugar to the equation for VSV at this point since the vinegar obviously allowed something to outcompete the cyano.

How did you decide on 24 drops of MB7 daily for your 170g mate, because instructions would indicate 3-4 drops?

Do u all dose mb7 every day and does everyone turn off their skimmers for four hours like it calls for?

bump on this.

I am switching from prodibio to biofuel and MB7. I'm dosing daily at this stage and have a few small areas of cyano I am trying to defeat (from prodibio days). My NO3 is 0 and PO4 is 0.03, so working out best dosage regime is a little cofusing

 

[reefsic]

I followed SunnyX's directions; Dosed MB7 daily for the first 2 weeks per seeding period and followed the directions on the bottle. After the initial 2 week seeding period, I cut down to 1-2x weekly with the addition of Vodka daily. I have current Voka dosage is 1.2ml...my DT is approx. 190g/220g Total volume.

Again, I chose to start slow and have been seeing great results.

 

[byrdman81]

Do u turn ur skimmer off after adding mb7?

 

[xsboost]

Thanks!

I also see Sonny has advised 1 drop of MB7 per 25g as a general maintenance dose.

 

[Gilby]

Do u turn ur skimmer off after adding mb7?

I do, just like the directions say, but i'm not sure about anyone else.

 

[byrdman81]

Ok cool its just seems like alot of work to turn it off 4 hrs then turn back on. I done it with seeding just wasnt for sure if I should do it during everyday dosing.

 

[Gilby]

Ok cool its just seems like alot of work to turn it off 4 hrs then turn back on. I done it with seeding just wasnt for sure if I should do it during everyday dosing.

I set my skimmer up on a timer. It makes it a whole lot easier that way.

 

[reefsic]

Timer works, but this can cause long-term issues with the pump. I just recommend slightly raising the dosage to avoid having to turn on/off the skimmer pump! Should be a huge deal once you've cut back to 1-2x a week.

 

[byrdman81]

I decided to dose once a week. The bottle talks about either added a few drops a day or no more than 5 ml a week.

 

[mrsmithers]

I have been dosing the MB7 every other day because that works best with my work schedule. The same goes for the Vodka as well.

I don’t turn my skimmer off, just increased the amount I dose.

Oxboost about that cyano, try increasing the MB7 or whatever bac. you are dosing and lower you vodka dose until the cyano goes away.

 

[mrsmithers]

More tank pic's. I wish I could take better pics, maybe one day.

 

[xsboost]

Guys I have started BF and MB7 on my 160g system.

Because I previously used prodibio, I am using 6 drops of MB7 in morning and 1.5ml of BF in evening. I have also started dosing a few Amino's, vitamins, etc and seing my nitrates go from 0 to fluctuating between 5-10. The glass is also getting algae and the sand is getting diatoms.

To lower nitrates and clear the diatoms/algae should I be increasing MB7, BF or both or cutting out BF??

It may be my imagination, but after dosing BF in the evening the sand looks like it might get a bit cleaner - so should I be dosing both products at the same time?

 

[mrsmithers]

xsboost:
I would lower your MB7 dosing and see if that helps with the nitrates. Also you can dose the BF and MB7 together when the tank lights are on.

 

[SunnyX]

Do u turn ur skimmer off after adding mb7?

Hello, it is important to leave your Skimmer on. Probiotic dosing can cause bacteria blooms, which will suck up available O2, so running the Skimmer 24/7 is of high importance.

Good luck,

Sonny

 

[SunnyX]

JUNE 18 2010:

Hello fellow reefers! I have received quite a few questions concerning the dosing of probiotics and carbon sources so I have decided to sticky this thread. If you have any questions please post them on this thread so we can keep the rest of the forum clean. After asking a question myself or another FORUM PRO's will reply to your question.

Thank you,

Sonny


MicroBacter7/Vodka dosing guide


So, I am sure by now many of you have heard of people dosing vodka and bacteria into their systems. You first thought may have been "what" or "why", but I am here to help explain the reasons behind why those of us who do dose vodka do so.

Let me start by saying I am not an expert on the subject. I am not a scientist and cannot get into the intricate details of how and why the dosing of vodka works. I can however tell you what has worked for me and give you a general idea of how vodka dosing aids ones system. Please keep in mind that this dosing system is not without risks. You can wipe out your system if the proper procedures are not followed.

Before reading what I have to say below be sure to check out the links below:

(This will give you a general idea on how much vodka to dose)
Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com

(This is a simple overview of the vodka dosing trend in this hobby)
Gimme a Vodka, on the Live Rocks, with a Splash of Heavy Skimming. (03/30/10) / Feature Articles - Quality Marine


Basically, the ethanol in vodka feeds bacteria in your aquarium which in turn multiply. When the bacteria multiplies it consumes N03 and P04. The bacteria, along with the nutrients it has consumed is then exported by a large protein skimmer. The bacteria, in this case MB7, is added in order to keep the bacteria diversified and help stave off red slime. You can dose vodka alone but I wouldn't recommend it.

When I first setup my current tank I had been adding Microbacter7 from Brightwell aquatics. While this help the tank I wasn't all that impressed. It wasn't until I started dosing vodka that things really took off. Within a month of dosing vodka I no longer had to use GFO. Within 3 months I actually had to add Amino Acids and feed the tank more as it had become "too clean". The corals had lightened up and actually stopped growing. After cutting back a bit on the vodka dosage and adding more food the corals once again took off.


Please note that you MUST have a sufficient sized skimmer and proper aeration to employ this dosing system. Reefers have crashed their setups by not running a skimmer or having proper flow/aeration.

Here are some things I have observed when dosing MB7/vodka:

PROS
-My skimmer is pulling out more gunk then ever
-My water is even clearer now
-Polyp extension in corals has greatly increased
-Coral growth has exploded. Within two weeks of dosing I have counted 36 new, small coral heads coming out of my large mille.
-The sand bed is whiter.
-Glass and overflow box stay cleaner longer.
-Coraline algae has begun to show up on pumps and over flow.

CONS
-Some corals have lightened up even more.
-Red slime is appearing in spot it hasn't before.
-Bacteria is making my sand bed clumpy, so I have to gravel vac it twice a month.


Is vodka dosing for everyone? No. But for these of you willing to take the time to understand and implement this system it can change the way you go about reef keeping. The system is simple and cost effective, allowing you to achive near ocean like water quality without the use of expensive GFO or refugiums.

If you decide to dose MB7/Vodka here are some helpful tips:


MB7 (Bottle Instructions.)
+
Vodka (or carbon) Dosing - Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
=========================
Probiotic Reef Keeping.

Time to dose = during lights on seems best. MB7 into the display. Vodka into the sump.

Rules
1) Need a good skimmer

Noticed in Water testing
1) high nitrates = increase vodka as per instructions.
2) no Nitrate/Po4 change in LONG time = try another carbon source like vinegar, sugar, biofuel...
3) low nitrates = maintain till 0 then reduce to maintenance levels of vodka
4) Increase in Alk = stop dosing Cal / alk, test water change h20 for alk level. Decrease with large water changes and/or chemicals if it gets bad. Corals may stop taking Cal/ALK while getting used to Probiotic system & increased light.
4) new tank/build = follow instructions, stay close to the low side of dosing.
5) Phosphate being high = a round of GFO

Noticed in Algae/Bacteria Reaction
1) Bacterial Blooms (slimy white strings) = too much bacteria, decrease vodka dosing.
2) algae on glass after increase of MB7 = reduce MB7
3) brown dusting or brown hair like stuff = decrease MB7 (also check http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/20...eament-of.html )
4) cyano = increase MB7 and/or lower/stop vodka dose. After the cyano has gone away restart the vodka from the initial or maintenence dose. If it's really bad consider a "lights out" period. If really really bad consider "Red Slime Remover."
5) peach fuzz = stop or decrease (especially vodka) dosing for a while (about a week or till the fuzz dies off) then start back up with the maintenance dose. OR This may also just go away in time.
6) glass and sand getting dirtier = dose more/feed less

Noticed in Live Stock Reaction
1) Corals losing color = more feeding, possibly Amino Acids, lower photo period an hour for a while.
2) Corals Burnt Tips = check alkalinity..get it to 7-8 dKH by stop dosing alk...maybe stop dosing EVERYTHING if it gets bad.
3) Monti caps bleaching = Cut the vodka dosage in half and stay there until the cap starts to color up and/or lower the lighting photoperiod for a bit or have a light "day off."
4) Everything dies = Blame the wife, kids, or something other than your own possible mistakes )

Other
1) substrate hardening = keep it broken up and siphoned with water changes. Maintain a good high PH of 8.1 - 8.3


I just wanted to show you what this method has done for me. Here are examples from my old Rimless setup:

Here is my old Rimless, 13 months apart:

And 5 months after that:

This is just a basic observation on carbon dosing. Please feel free to add any information/experiences you have had with this dosing method. Please also keep in mind that this method is not a miracle cure or anything of the sort. You will still need proper husbandry, lighting, and flow in order to be successful.

Sonny


Sonny

 

[mrsmithers]

This will help out a lot, Thanks Sonny.

 

[xsboost]

Thanks mrsmithers. Does excess MB7 equate to higher nitrates?

I'm trying to understand why the MB7 instructions suggest not to go over 1 drop per 50g daily when everyone get fantastic results in the two week seeding period of extreme dosing. Then the neo zeo instructions are different again. RBF is just as confusing, I am now wondering if I should be dosing 5ml/100g daily and see if nitrates will come down and cyano will clear up..

 

[mrsmithers]

Sorry about the confusion (I confuse myself all the time with this stuff)
Generally for nitrates you want to increase you carbon source which feeds the bacterial and thereby the consume NO3 but you also have cyano- bacterial which will also feed and multiply when you dose you carbon source.
Need to take a look at your export of the excess bacteria and nutrients too much of either will increase the cyano and NO3. Try doing some water changes and also what size tank and skimmer do you have?
Hopefully Sonny or other Probiotic guru’s will weigh in