My Black Ocellaris pair are spawning!!!

[wesly2006]

just curious as to when and how much you will be selling the black occ for?

 

[rkelman]

I have been moving these fish for quite some time wesly2006. I only wholesale. That's all I can say. Talk of sales is not what this forum or my thread is about.

 

[Nebthet]

We all just love your clowns so much Rob. You do an awsome job at raising them.

 

[rkelman]

Thanks Nebthet

 

[Nebthet]

Any time. Your tank has always been a huge inspirtion for me. Wish I could see it in person some time. I would take lots of pics for you.

 

[Sparty00]

Hi. I may not be seeing this correctly, but wanted to ask the question. It appears on your growout system that you also have sponge filters in there.

Is that to seed the filters, or is that needed for the actual growout tanks?

Thanks

 

[pammy]

My clowns laid their first batch of eggs on Sunday June 20th, and I came home last Sunday June 27th, and I could see the silver eyes, so I expected them to hatch that night. I shut the lights off in the tank early, to try to catch them before I went to sleep. Not planning on trying to raise a batch until September, but I just wanted to observe. I had to get to bed about 30 minutes later, which wasn't long enough to catch anything, but I checked the tank at 3:45am when I woke up for work, and the eggs had hatched. I tried to see if I could see the larvae in the tank, and held a flash light above the tank. I couldn't see anything that wasn't much bigger than microscopic, but it did look like some tiny dots were swimming towards the light. Are they THAT small, or was I looking at copepods or something. If they are that small, I can't imagine trying to catch them to move them to the tank where you raise them. I want them to get into a routine of laying several batches of eggs, and then I'll try putting a tile in that spot to see if they'll start laying on the tile. Seems like it will be just so much easier. At least now I know what I'm looking for when they are about to hatch. Very cool !! It doesn't look like many eggs were lost between when they laid the eggs and when they hatched, which is encouraging for the first batch. I've been reading up a lot on raising clowns, and have a list together of what I'll need, and started picking up a couple things. This thread has been a great help and inspiration. Thanks Rkelman ! Rkelman, are you still using BBS for the second food or are you using crushed cyclopese? I'd really prefer not to have to get into hatching and decapsulating brine shrimp if I don't have to. It's enough raising rotifers. Do the baby clowns do better on frozen or freeze dried cyclopese? I have both. I know the clowns lay eggs every 2 or 3 weeks on average, but is that 2 weeks from when they laid the last batch, or 2 weeks after the eggs hatch? If it's 2 weeks from when they laid the last batch, I may see another batch of eggs as soon as this Sunday. Thanks. Pam

On Sunday, I looked in my tank and thought, what the heck is growing in my tank NOW?? At first, I thought it was some type of fungus. Took about a minute for me to realize that my pair of Ocellaris Clowns had laid their first batch of eggs! I've had the clowns for about 15 months, and they immediately paired up with my Sebae Anemone. I never really noticed any behavior indicating they might spawn soon, so this was unexpected and very exciting!! I know very little about breeding clowns, but from what little I read, I understand it's a pretty complex process, time consuming, and there's tons to read up on before diving into it. I may read up over the summer, and when the summer is over and my vacations are over, I might attempt to raise a batch in the fall... if the clowns keep spawning. There are a couple hundred eggs. Today is day 4. Last night the eggs changed from bright orange to brown. Curious about a couple things. I see the clowns, mainly the male, are tending to the eggs. What exactly are they doing? You'd almost think they were eating the eggs, but I don't think they are because there seems to be the same amount of eggs now, as when they laid them 3 days ago. Are they cleaning the eggs? I know that any larvae, if the eggs hatch, won't survive in the display because there won't be anything for them to eat, and they will probably get eaten by other fish or skimmed out, but let's say that lack of food wasn't an issue, wouldn't the babies take cover in the Anemone and have protection there from other fish like they would in the ocean? The clowns laid the eggs, on the rock right under the 13" Sebae Anemone. The Anemone is usually draped over this rock, but since the clowns laid the eggs, they seem to be keeping the Anemone off of the rock so that he's not draped over their eggs. The Anemone is almost standing at attention for lack of a better description. When the lights are out, they seem to be allowing the Anemone back into his normal position and he's draped over the eggs and the rocks. This is quite neat to watch and so much better than checking out your tank and finding some pest or
nuisance algae! Pam

 

[GreshamH]

hey Rob. Any advice on feeding Otohime A? My fry (I only have 4 left) are eating bbs, but doesn't seem to take the Otohime. Fry is 16 days old.

IMO Otohime A is too small for 16 day old fry. A is 250µm, about the size of an adult normal "L" strain rotifer. I would be using "C" and that seems to be what most people buy as well.

 

[rkelman]

Hi. I may not be seeing this correctly, but wanted to ask the question. It appears on your growout system that you also have sponge filters in there.

Is that to seed the filters, or is that needed for the actual growout tanks?

Thanks

I have had sponges in at various stages but they aren't usually in there no. I only put one in when the flow in the tank is so low that I wouldn't get efficient filtration / oxygenation.

My clowns laid their first batch of eggs on Sunday June 20th, and I came home last Sunday June 27th, and I could see the silver eyes, so I expected them to hatch that night. I shut the lights off in the tank early, to try to catch them before I went to sleep. Not planning on trying to raise a batch until September, but I just wanted to observe. I had to get to bed about 30 minutes later, which wasn't long enough to catch anything, but I checked the tank at 3:45am when I woke up for work, and the eggs had hatched. I tried to see if I could see the larvae in the tank, and held a flash light above the tank. I couldn't see anything that wasn't much bigger than microscopic, but it did look like some tiny dots were swimming towards the light. Are they THAT small, or was I looking at copepods or something. If they are that small, I can't imagine trying to catch them to move them to the tank where you raise them. I want them to get into a routine of laying several batches of eggs, and then I'll try putting a tile in that spot to see if they'll start laying on the tile. Seems like it will be just so much easier. At least now I know what I'm looking for when they are about to hatch. Very cool !! It doesn't look like many eggs were lost between when they laid the eggs and when they hatched, which is encouraging for the first batch. I've been reading up a lot on raising clowns, and have a list together of what I'll need, and started picking up a couple things. This thread has been a great help and inspiration. Thanks Rkelman ! Rkelman, are you still using BBS for the second food or are you using crushed cyclopese? I'd really prefer not to have to get into hatching and decapsulating brine shrimp if I don't have to. It's enough raising rotifers. Do the baby clowns do better on frozen or freeze dried cyclopese? I have both. I know the clowns lay eggs every 2 or 3 weeks on average, but is that 2 weeks from when they laid the last batch, or 2 weeks after the eggs hatch? If it's 2 weeks from when they laid the last batch, I may see another batch of eggs as soon as this Sunday. Thanks. Pam

They aren't quite that small Pammy. You should have no trouble seeing them. I think you just totally missed it.

No I don't use BBS or Cyclopleze. I use Otohime A

Its after they laid the last batch. Mine are usually 14 days approx.

IMO Otohime A is too small for 16 day old fry. A is 250µm, about the size of an adult normal "L" strain rotifer. I would be using "C" and that seems to be what most people buy as well.

I use A then B2 Perhaps I'll get some C next time as well.

 

[pammy]

Hi Rkelman. My clowns laid their first batch of eggs 22 days ago. No signs of a 2nd batch yet. Not worried since I'm still reading and learning, and don't want to attempt to raise a batch until September. The clowns really pushed my Sabae away from where they laid their last batch. He's all crammed up in the back of the tank now. I wonder if they'll pick a new nest site next time to be closer to the Sabae?? Couple questions for ya regarding rotifers. I've read completely different things regarding Rotifers. I'm wondering if you've experimented with both. Some say that rotifers do better in the dark and others say they do better with some indirect light. I believe you use, or have used, white buckets (salt buckets?) but some say rotifers don't do well in white buckets. I've also read some people say you don't need a heater in the rotifer bucket, and others say they do better with heat. From what I've read in this thread, you've done it both ways regarding heat. Also, have you ever tried the Rotifer Diet rather than using Phyto? I'm not planning on Breeding clowns, just would like to raise a single batch, so if I can get by with Rotifer Diet rather than getting into Phyto cultures, that would make life a lot easier. Thanks! Pam

 

[rkelman]

Hi Pammy,

Interesting. I'm sure they will get back at it soon though. Who knows where they will lay. Its hard to tell without a history of behavior to go on.

I've found no difference in my rotifer production between lit / unlit cultures. I dont think it matters. I also don't think white buckets are any better or worse than any other colour.

Now with heat there is a definite difference. More heat makes them produce faster. (Which also makes them more vulnerable to crashes) I don't use heat in the summer but I do in the winter because my basement is cold. (just to keep them at 70 - 75deg

I am using Rotifer diet. Its great.

 

[pandarider007]

this might be mentioned, but what size tank are the breeding pair in?:thumbsup:

 

[meinestrasse]

Thought maybe you could share some thoughts on the business aspects of this. I've read thru the whole thread and haven't seen much on this. Seems like this all started by accident and now you've got quite an elaborate setup. I see from your public profile that you already have a full-time job outside this hobby. I see you sell only wholesale. How did you build a network of LFS buyers? Are you only dealing with local LFS or other outfits like internet retailers? Is your business sustainable in that you're at least breaking even in terms of costs to run your setup? Do you have family that help you? Very curious about this.

 

[Haag13]

Well Rkelman, I had things to do today but didn't because I found this great thread. I just spent over 6 hours reading it all!! It's amazing to see how far you've progressed. From buckets in the dining room and fry in the bedroom with 50w heaters to full racks of plumbed tanks in the basement with thousands of fish. It was neat to see your slow transition from the guy asking all the questions to the guy answering them all. I have no plans to ever breed or raise clownfish but your thread has been interesting and inspiring none the less. Congratulations and thank you for all of your time and effort put into this thread. People like you are what make reefcentral the best forum on aquaria in the world.

 

[Foosinho]

Thought maybe you could share some thoughts on the business aspects of this. I've read thru the whole thread and haven't seen much on this. Seems like this all started by accident and now you've got quite an elaborate setup. I see from your public profile that you already have a full-time job outside this hobby. I see you sell only wholesale. How did you build a network of LFS buyers? Are you only dealing with local LFS or other outfits like internet retailers? Is your business sustainable in that you're at least breaking even in terms of costs to run your setup? Do you have family that help you? Very curious about this.

I'm curious about some of these things too. I'm curious about the economics of it (tho I understand it's not like you're rolling in cash). It seems like raising tank-bred organisms (and perhaps adding to the collective knowledge of how to do so successfully) is an excellent way to "give back" to the community, and reduce our collective impact on reefs.

IOW, it is something I'm mulling over including space/resources for in my "dream tank" plans for my (distant) future house.

With a mature operation, do you think it would be possible to offset the costs of running a large display tank and all of your tank-related hobby expenses? As an experienced "pro", what kind of time commitment are you making? What does your daily schedule of breeding-related activity look like? Do you see further ways to simplify and potentially automate maintenance tasks to reduce your workload?

 

[Foosinho]

Thought maybe you could share some thoughts on the business aspects of this. I've read thru the whole thread and haven't seen much on this. Seems like this all started by accident and now you've got quite an elaborate setup. I see from your public profile that you already have a full-time job outside this hobby. I see you sell only wholesale. How did you build a network of LFS buyers? Are you only dealing with local LFS or other outfits like internet retailers? Is your business sustainable in that you're at least breaking even in terms of costs to run your setup? Do you have family that help you? Very curious about this.

I'm curious about some of these things too. I'm curious about the economics of it (tho I understand it's not like you're rolling in cash). It seems like raising tank-bred organisms (and perhaps adding to the collective knowledge of how to do so successfully) is an excellent way to "give back" to the community, and reduce our collective impact on reefs.

IOW, it is something I'm mulling over including space/resources for in my "dream tank" plans for my (distant) future house.

With a mature operation, do you think it would be possible to offset the costs of running a large display tank and all of your tank-related hobby expenses? As an experienced "pro", what kind of time commitment are you making? What does your daily schedule of breeding-related activity look like? Do you see further ways to simplify and potentially automate maintenance tasks to reduce your workload?

 

[rkelman]

Sorry folks I've been crazy busy lately. Well and I bought a boat so maybe busy isn't my only excuse

this might be mentioned, but what size tank are the breeding pair in?:thumbsup:

Its a 190g

Thought maybe you could share some thoughts on the business aspects of this. I've read thru the whole thread and haven't seen much on this. Seems like this all started by accident and now you've got quite an elaborate setup. I see from your public profile that you already have a full-time job outside this hobby. I see you sell only wholesale. How did you build a network of LFS buyers? Are you only dealing with local LFS or other outfits like internet retailers? Is your business sustainable in that you're at least breaking even in terms of costs to run your setup? Do you have family that help you? Very curious about this.

Hi I'd be glad to share my thoughts. I did startup by accident. There was such high demand for my fish I had to expand my setup to house all the fish I need to supply the demand. I do have a full time job that is very busy as well but I'm not the type that can just sit on the couch and watch TV at night. I have to keep moving I got customers mostly by word of mouth / internet forums like this one. I deal pretty much with LFS only. I obviously can't get into the economics of the business here as its against forum rules. It pays for my hobby at least. As I've said many times through out my thread. I'd make more money working part time at McDonalds though. My family does help. I have a daughter that helps me scrub tanks my wife does other things that frees me up for "fish stuff" and she feeds when i'm not here or just don't feel like it.

Well Rkelman, I had things to do today but didn't because I found this great thread. I just spent over 6 hours reading it all!! It's amazing to see how far you've progressed. From buckets in the dining room and fry in the bedroom with 50w heaters to full racks of plumbed tanks in the basement with thousands of fish. It was neat to see your slow transition from the guy asking all the questions to the guy answering them all. I have no plans to ever breed or raise clownfish but your thread has been interesting and inspiring none the less. Congratulations and thank you for all of your time and effort put into this thread. People like you are what make reefcentral the best forum on aquaria in the world.

Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it.

I'm curious about some of these things too. I'm curious about the economics of it (tho I understand it's not like you're rolling in cash). It seems like raising tank-bred organisms (and perhaps adding to the collective knowledge of how to do so successfully) is an excellent way to "give back" to the community, and reduce our collective impact on reefs.

IOW, it is something I'm mulling over including space/resources for in my "dream tank" plans for my (distant) future house.

With a mature operation, do you think it would be possible to offset the costs of running a large display tank and all of your tank-related hobby expenses? As an experienced "pro", what kind of time commitment are you making? What does your daily schedule of breeding-related activity look like? Do you see further ways to simplify and potentially automate maintenance tasks to reduce your workload?

It is nice to know my fish are perhaps helping to lessen the impact on the reefs. I hope more people get into breeding different fish / propagating corals to further lessen the impact we are having.

I think yes you can offset the costs of the hobby but at what cost to yourself and your time with your family is the real question. Yes I have a big tank but I have no time to care for it properly because i'm always looking after the little ones so even if it pays for the hobby is it worth it? Sometimes I wonder myself. The time commitment is pretty big. I feed in the morning which usually ends up being about 10 minutes. At night its another 10 for just a feed but there is always something else.. Topping off reservoirs / checking temperatures / salinity / emptying skimmers and just general maintenance. Not to mention all the stuff that comes up unexpectedly. With this much equipment something is always needing fixing or replacement.

I can't really think of ways to automate the maintenance other than auto feeders which would be more of a pain than they are worth. I could automate water changes but the tanks need to be scrubbed down so having the water changed automatically doesn't help because it will need to be changed again after the tanks get scrubbed. I have ATO's on the 2 big systems. The 30g the Orange O's are in doesn't have one yet. The larvae tanks are all individual so they are the most troublesome i'd say.

 

[pammy]

Thanks Rkelman. Well my clowns laid their 2nd batch of eggs sometime in the middle of last week. That was 5 weeks after their 1st batch. I could have missed a batch in the middle as this new batch of eggs is almost out of view. As I suspected, they laid the eggs in a different spot this time, right next to the Sabae Anemone again. They pushed the Sabae to the back of the tank after they laid their first batch of eggs, so I was wondering if they would lay the 2nd batch of eggs in the original spot, or near the Anemone's new spot. They laid the eggs in a new spot near the Anemone. That Anemone hadn't moved for 3 years, until the Clowns laid their first batch of eggs and pushed him back. I could see the Anemone almost standing up as they kept him up off of their eggs that they laid right under him. I really want to put a tile in the tank when I get ready to try to raise a batch of eggs, but I'm not sure where they'll lay the next batch. I'll watch the next couple of cycles. But good news is that they have laid at least 2 batches of eggs in the past 5 weeks. Yay! Rkelman...ok, so if you're using Rotifer Diet, what is the phyto used for that you're culturing? I guess I'm confused because I thought I would have to feed the Rotifers either something like Rotifer Diet, OR I would have to get some cultures of phyto going. Is Rotifer Diet what you're culturing in those bottles of Phyto, or do you just feed Rotifer Diet directly to the Rotifers (which is what I assumed I would be doing). If I want to just raise a single batch of clowns, can I get away with using Rotifer Diet WITHOUT setting up cultures to keep it going?

Thanks!
Pam

Hi Pammy,

Interesting. I'm sure they will get back at it soon though. Who knows where they will lay. Its hard to tell without a history of behavior to go on.

I've found no difference in my rotifer production between lit / unlit cultures. I dont think it matters. I also don't think white buckets are any better or worse than any other colour.

Now with heat there is a definite difference. More heat makes them produce faster. (Which also makes them more vulnerable to crashes) I don't use heat in the summer but I do in the winter because my basement is cold. (just to keep them at 70 - 75deg

I am using Rotifer diet. Its great.

 

[rkelman]

Cool congrats. I don't culture Phyto anymore I use Rotifer Diet only. Why don't you wait up on hatch night cut the pumps off and catch the larvae?

Thanks Rkelman. Well my clowns laid their 2nd batch of eggs sometime in the middle of last week. That was 5 weeks after their 1st batch. I could have missed a batch in the middle as this new batch of eggs is almost out of view. As I suspected, they laid the eggs in a different spot this time, right next to the Sabae Anemone again. They pushed the Sabae to the back of the tank after they laid their first batch of eggs, so I was wondering if they would lay the 2nd batch of eggs in the original spot, or near the Anemone's new spot. They laid the eggs in a new spot near the Anemone. That Anemone hadn't moved for 3 years, until the Clowns laid their first batch of eggs and pushed him back. I could see the Anemone almost standing up as they kept him up off of their eggs that they laid right under him. I really want to put a tile in the tank when I get ready to try to raise a batch of eggs, but I'm not sure where they'll lay the next batch. I'll watch the next couple of cycles. But good news is that they have laid at least 2 batches of eggs in the past 5 weeks. Yay! Rkelman...ok, so if you're using Rotifer Diet, what is the phyto used for that you're culturing? I guess I'm confused because I thought I would have to feed the Rotifers either something like Rotifer Diet, OR I would have to get some cultures of phyto going. Is Rotifer Diet what you're culturing in those bottles of Phyto, or do you just feed Rotifer Diet directly to the Rotifers (which is what I assumed I would be doing). If I want to just raise a single batch of clowns, can I get away with using Rotifer Diet WITHOUT setting up cultures to keep it going?

Thanks!
Pam

 

[pammy]

Thanks Rkelman. I may have to do that to catch the larvae, but it seems like it will be so much harder, and based on your experiences, you seem to have a much higher survival rate using the tile method. I get up for work at 3:45am, so I can't stay up late during the week, but maybe the clowns will cooperate and lay eggs on a Friday or Saturday night so they'll hatch during a time that I can stay up late. Looks like the 2nd batch hatched. How large are the larvae when they hatch? Are they easily visible or are they they the size of copepods?

Cool congrats. I don't culture Phyto anymore I use Rotifer Diet only. Why don't you wait up on hatch night cut the pumps off and catch the larvae?