Mysterious fish deaths are more common now (Flukes)

[b0bab0ey]

Have you confirmed that it is definitely flukes causing the twitching? Usually the follow up treatments take care of anything that hatches from eggs.

Well, a few days after I treat with PraziPro he stops twitching completely. Goes back to acting normally. And he won't twitch the entire time after that, so long as I keep treating him with PraziPro. But a week or two after I stop treating, he starts twitching a little at first and then a few days later, he's twitching almost non-stop. So whatever ails him, it's responding to the PraziPro.

I plan on hitting him with PraziPro every 4 days now (doing WCs before each new treatment) like 3 or 4x. Maybe I'm waiting too long in-between treatments, and the eggs keep hatching and lay more eggs.

I'm really not wanting to do the FW dip thing because I have rocks in the QT tank w/him, so it wouldn't be easy to catch him. But I guess that's next if this next round of PraziPro doesn't work.

 

[flameangel88]

I don't think I've come across any post that flukes treatment requiring more than 2 treatments. It's possible but odd. That many prazi treatments can't be good on the fish either so I would recommend going that extra effort of removing the rocks and catching the tang and perform the FW dip to confirm before another dose of prazi. The reason I say that is the fact you already hit it 4 times so what will it do that the other 4 times didn't?

I hate removing rocks myself but I think this is the best course of action.

GL with the Powder blue!

Edit: I've come across possibility of Prazi not getting rid of internal parasites after the second dose but not on flukes.

 

[cthetoy]

I have a Powder Blue Tang in QT that I've treated with PraziPro 4 TIMES NOW and the Flukes just keep coming back! I've tried both 5-day and 7-day intervals. Results are always the same. He starts twitching, the twitching gets worse, I hit him with a couple treatments of PraziPro and he seems fine for about a week or two. Then the twitching starts back up, and we rinse and repeat. I've read that PraziPro only kills the Flukes and not their eggs. So, how do you ever beat Flukes w/PraziPro if the Flukes just keep laying more eggs, generation after generation?!

I'm not sure whats the exact life cycle of flukes but the 5 or 7 day intervals seems quick for flukes to come back. Also in my experience and observation tangs for some reason rarely gets flukes. Normally flukes are on Angels, Butterflies, and Anthias. Perhaps those fish scales are large enough for flukes to hide and reproduce.

If you still suspect your Tang has flukes make sure you shake the Prazipro rigorously as stated. Is your Prazipro new? Some LFS stores has the same Prazipro bottles sitting on the shelf year after year. I usually order mine online for Fostersmith, That Pet Place, etc.
When you performed a water change did you replace the new water with Prazipro? Also I'm assuming you are using 1 teaspoon (5ml) of Prazipro per 20 gallons of water.

Also Powder Blue as very susceptible ich which causes twitching.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I'm not sure whats the exact life cycle of flukes but the 5 or 7 day intervals seems quick for flukes to come back. Also in my experience and observation tangs for some reason rarely gets flukes. Normally flukes are on Angels, Butterflies, and Anthias. Perhaps those fish scales are large enough for flukes to hide and reproduce.

If you still suspect your Tang has flukes make sure you shake the Prazipro rigorously as stated. Is your Prazipro new? Some LFS stores has the same Prazipro bottles sitting on the shelf year after year. I usually order mine online for Fostersmith, That Pet Place, etc.
When you performed a water change did you replace the new water with Prazipro? Also I'm assuming you are using 1 teaspoon (5ml) of Prazipro per 20 gallons of water.

Also Powder Blue as very susceptible ich which causes twitching.

I bought my PraziPro from a LFS. I looked on the bottle and can't find an expiration date, so how do you know if it's still good or not? :hmm6: I have a 29 gal QT so I use 15ml of PraziPro each time (a little overkill I know). I have done a 50% WC before each new dosage and then hit it with another 15ml of PraziPro.

Someone in another thread recommended this:

De-Los
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products.html#D

It says it kills both the Flukes AND the eggs. Anyone have any experience with this medication?

 

[b0bab0ey]

Also Powder Blue as very susceptible ich which causes twitching.

I've seriously considered that possibility but see no other signs that he may have ich. No rubbing, no heavy breathing, no white spots... his one and only symptom is that he twitches. And that goes away after I start in with the PraziPro treatments. The only time he twitches is a week or two after I stop the PraziPro.

This whole thing is driving me crazy! :furious:

 

[dcleary]

This may be an annoying newbie post but...
I'm wondering if someone could point me to a thread on dosing the whole tank w/ Praziqantel. I've got both flukes and Ich in my 210 reef tank w/ 8 fish. I've managed to get 4 of them out and into a FW dip and then into my QT. One was a Regal angel and you could see tons of the flukes in the FW dip. Another was a yellow tang and it had the classic tiny black spots that seem to be gone after the dip and 2 weeks in the QT w/ prazi.
But I've still got a power blue and a hippo in the main tank that are too smart for me given all the rock I have.
So after building 4 different types of traps over 2 weeks I've given up on catching them and want to dose the whole display tank w/ the praziquantel. Any good links?

 

[billsreef]

There is some info in this thread on treating with Prazi. A search of the forum will also bring up plenty more threads on using Prazi

 

[Aquarist007]

I've seriously considered that possibility but see no other signs that he may have ich. No rubbing, no heavy breathing, no white spots... his one and only symptom is that he twitches. And that goes away after I start in with the PraziPro treatments. The only time he twitches is a week or two after I stop the PraziPro.

This whole thing is driving me crazy! :furious:

h

watch for cloudy eyes---that's a dead give away it flukes

 

[Aquarist007]

This may be an annoying newbie post but...
I'm wondering if someone could point me to a thread on dosing the whole tank w/ Praziqantel. I've got both flukes and Ich in my 210 reef tank w/ 8 fish. I've managed to get 4 of them out and into a FW dip and then into my QT. One was a Regal angel and you could see tons of the flukes in the FW dip. Another was a yellow tang and it had the classic tiny black spots that seem to be gone after the dip and 2 weeks in the QT w/ prazi.
But I've still got a power blue and a hippo in the main tank that are too smart for me given all the rock I have.
So after building 4 different types of traps over 2 weeks I've given up on catching them and want to dose the whole display tank w/ the praziquantel. Any good links?

the instructions on the bottle are good

 

[Korrine]

I decided I was going to treat my purple tang for flukes. Sunday he started twitching once in awhile. He would also flash against the rock, but I don't see any spots on him at all. His color is still good and he's still eating well at this point. He did have cloudy eyes when I picked him up.

I have in a 29g observation currently. Makes it easier to treat. I put in 1.5 tsp of Prazipro per the directions (1tsp per 10g).

 

[hottuna]

Hate to tell you this bobaboey: the only thing that will wipe those flukes out is dylox or delos by natl fish pharm...problem is -its so tough on the fish (especially tangs and angels) it will probably kill it..
I have been dealing with this problem a long time...and have consulted with Dr Brian @ natl fish pharm-even he will tell you-these flukes are super resistant to treatment...
Made me tear down all but one of my tanks...getting ready to quit & go freshwater...until the wholesalers,retailers get their act together-these pests will continue to be spread to the hobbyists tanks...its a no win situation...

 

[skraj011]

cthetoy-

I think this is one of the most important threads on RC.

It needs to stickied ASAP.

I had been very skeptical of most of the information regarding fish diseases that's available.

That all changed when the entire contents of my 125 was wiped out a few weeks after introducing a male blue throat trigger. I noticed his eyes were generally slightly cloudy with spots that were more "cloudy."

I almost got out of the hobby, but then decided to try again.

I have since set up a QT and treat every fish with prazipro after reading this thread. I have made the same eye findings in about 25% of the fish I have purchased and the eyes have cleared up in every single one once treated with prazipro.

forget about hyposalinity for this particular problem. It likely just stresses out the fish even more.

this post must be stickied.

 

[reefmanmatt]

Good thread -

A couple of observations though - the pictures (and many of the symptoms) above pertain to Neobenedinia. This is a large, common fluke that *can* kill fish, but it takes a long time. More insidous are smaller gill and skin flukes (you cannot see these in the FW dip bucket without a microscope or at least a hand lens).
With FW dips, it makes sense to match water temps, but don't go overboard trying to match the pH - a fish exposed to massive osmotic change like that isn't going to notice the pH difference<grin>.
Also, I generally don't go 10 minutes on a FW dip. Dips alone won't eradicte flukes because some are egg-layers and infections with the livebearing species almost always have some juveniles in the tank and not on the fish. Better to use the FW dips as a pre-treatment.
Here is a rather important point - if the fish has a heavy fluke infestation and you do a 10 minute FW dip and knock off ALL the flukes, the fish may "bleed out" and die from the literally hundreds of holes in its skin left by the killed flukes. If you suspect a SEVERE fluke infestation, try a 3 or 4 minute FW dip, wait a couple of days and try a 5 or 6 minute dip, wait a day or two and then hit the tank with praziquantel. The idea is to remove the flukes a few at a time so the fish's skin can heal a bit between removals.

Jay Hemdal

i have no experience with dipping anything . guess ive been lucky .... i really cant believe a fish could stay alive in fresh for 3-4 minutes , much less ten ! i would have to try it on my g/f's fish first .....

 

[b0bab0ey]

Hate to tell you this bobaboey: the only thing that will wipe those flukes out is dylox or delos by natl fish pharm...problem is -its so tough on the fish (especially tangs and angels) it will probably kill it..
I have been dealing with this problem a long time...and have consulted with Dr Brian @ natl fish pharm-even he will tell you-these flukes are super resistant to treatment...
Made me tear down all but one of my tanks...getting ready to quit & go freshwater...until the wholesalers,retailers get their act together-these pests will continue to be spread to the hobbyists tanks...its a no win situation...

I think my PB Tang finally beat it but it took 4 CONSECUTIVE TREATMENTS 5 DAYS APART! But it's been 3 weeks now and no signs of Flukes!!! :inlove:

 

[hamiltonguy]

If administering PraziPro directly into the DT, should the skimmer be off for the entire duration of the treatment (ie. 5-7 days)?

 

[Yogre]

If administering PraziPro directly into the DT, should the skimmer be off for the entire duration of the treatment (ie. 5-7 days)?

I would say yes. Prazi will make your skimmer overflow; you also don't want any of the prazi being skimmed out during the treatment period.

 

[billsreef]

If administering PraziPro directly into the DT, should the skimmer be off for the entire duration of the treatment (ie. 5-7 days)?

I would say yes. Prazi will make your skimmer overflow; you also don't want any of the prazi being skimmed out during the treatment period.

Yogre is 100% correct, especially in regards to that last point. You also want to remove any other chemical filtration such as carbon, chemi pure, etc.

 

[hamiltonguy]

I would say yes. Prazi will make your skimmer overflow; you also don't want any of the prazi being skimmed out during the treatment period.

Yea that makes sense, I'll leave it off then.

Yogre is 100% correct, especially in regards to that last point. You also want to remove any other chemical filtration such as carbon, chemi pure, etc.

Does this include bio pellets? I would assume the fall under biological filtration.

 

[Yogre]

Does this include bio pellets? I would assume the fall under biological filtration.

Since no one but the manufacturer of the bio pellets knows for sure what's in them, it's hard to say with absolute certainty, but I wouldn't expect any significant interaction between prazi and bio pellets. I know people have rinsed the pellets with both vinegar and ethanol before use, and haven't reported any issues.

If you'd like a second opinion, you could ask over in Reef Chem. Randy is taking a break from the forum, but there's still plenty of knowledge over there.

 

[NarakuAulonocar]

Do flukes ALWAYS show in freshwater dips?

I have a butterflyfish who occasionally breaths heavily and only uses one gill on occasion. It has poor appetite.
I did freshwater dips but nothing came off.

Its lethargic now. Should I treat with prazi anyways?

Thanks