New 75 build - want it to be perfect HELP!!!
- Thread starter toonascott
- Start date
toonascott
New member
darius779 - Don't worry about hijacking this thread. It's all about making the best 75 gallon setup possible.
coralfiend - your tank was incredible, good luck on your new one.
coralfiend - your tank was incredible, good luck on your new one.
toonascott
New member
coralfiend - your display tank reflects an excellent system is in place.
can you give us a breakdown of that setup?
can you give us a breakdown of that setup?
CoralFiend
New member
Thanks toonascott. I touched on most of what the system was in my earlier post. Wasn't too fancy, really. Basic stuff. Horizontal 46" overflow, 29 gallon aquarium for a sump, EuroReef CS6-2 skimmer (model names have changed since then), auto fresh water top off and a refugium that was lighted 24-7 by 2 normal output aquarium bulbs. The refugium had live sand, more live rock and tons of caulerpa.
The main return pump was a Mag 12. I had a closed loop running with a Mag 9.5 that went through a SCWD (I'll never do that again). There were two medium sized powerheads in the tank on a Red Sea Wavemaster Pro, but they were well concealed and mostly circulated water behind the main rock work.
Lighting was by 2 250watt mogul based metal halide lamps (Aqualine Bushke 12k) and 4 VHO URI bulbs (2 48" 110 watt Super Actinics and 2 48" 110 watt 50/50 Actinic White bulbs (12k). There were also 4 moon lights mounted in the canopy.
There was no chiller, calcium reactor or kalkwasser reactor. Didn't even have a heater on it. I had a 1"-1.5" sand bed with coarse aragoninte substrate and about 150 pounds of Fiji live rock.
For calcium supplementation, I used Tropic Marin Bio Calcium. Also used Tropic Marin Salt.
The tank was six years old. Almost all of what you see in the pictures was started from frags, some very small. The fish load was moderate, although there were only 8 fish in the tank. Most were small, but I did have a good sized copperband, puddingwife wrasse and hippo tang in there.
The stand and canopy was custom made from cypress.
I can't think of anything else about it that would help you. If you have questions, just let me know. Thanks for asking about the tank. I sure hated to lose it the way I did, that's for sure.
The main return pump was a Mag 12. I had a closed loop running with a Mag 9.5 that went through a SCWD (I'll never do that again). There were two medium sized powerheads in the tank on a Red Sea Wavemaster Pro, but they were well concealed and mostly circulated water behind the main rock work.
Lighting was by 2 250watt mogul based metal halide lamps (Aqualine Bushke 12k) and 4 VHO URI bulbs (2 48" 110 watt Super Actinics and 2 48" 110 watt 50/50 Actinic White bulbs (12k). There were also 4 moon lights mounted in the canopy.
There was no chiller, calcium reactor or kalkwasser reactor. Didn't even have a heater on it. I had a 1"-1.5" sand bed with coarse aragoninte substrate and about 150 pounds of Fiji live rock.
For calcium supplementation, I used Tropic Marin Bio Calcium. Also used Tropic Marin Salt.
The tank was six years old. Almost all of what you see in the pictures was started from frags, some very small. The fish load was moderate, although there were only 8 fish in the tank. Most were small, but I did have a good sized copperband, puddingwife wrasse and hippo tang in there.
The stand and canopy was custom made from cypress.
I can't think of anything else about it that would help you. If you have questions, just let me know. Thanks for asking about the tank. I sure hated to lose it the way I did, that's for sure.
toonascott
New member
CoralFiend - you make it look simple my friend. I just can't get over the pics of your tank.
Other than your reef tank, how did you fare through the hurricane?
Question 2 - it looks like you have a sump and a seperate refugium. It is hard to see exactly how you did your setup. Can you make some sort of a drawing for us.
Other than your reef tank, how did you fare through the hurricane?
Question 2 - it looks like you have a sump and a seperate refugium. It is hard to see exactly how you did your setup. Can you make some sort of a drawing for us.
toonascott
New member
silly me, I just read your first post and found some of the info I was missing. Let's all Read first ask second, doh.
CoralFiend
New member
Thanks. I know it was no Tank of the Month or anything, but I was quite content with it.
Tearing the tank down after it sat for 10 days in 90 degree plus temperatures was something I will not soon forget. I had actually sworn that day that it was over for me. No way was I going through anything like that again. But, when it's in your blood, there isn't much you can do about it. So, I sold that set up and bought a 140. Makes sense, right?
I fared pretty well. Only minor damage to the house. The city that I live in isn't right on the coast, so the tidal surge didn't affect us - much. I did have a couple of friends that had three feet of salt water in their houses. The problem where I live was from sustained high winds of 100mph & above. Major wind damage all over. We had no power for 2-3 weeks. That, plus the mid 90 degree heat is what got the tank.
Nothing extravagant there either. I just built a 30 gallon glass tank and set it up on a platform on the floor behind the sump. It was gravity fed water from one of the tank's drains and flowed back to the sump from a pipe on the other end. Not very high tech.
toonascott
New member
well... not sure why I did it...I threw a coralife twin t-5 unit on my 75 to try and make it look pretty. Found out my main tank is crawling with copepods. The water is clouded with them, it is amazing!!!
I made a bud at the LFS (he has an mitsubishi EVO and he knows I am a tuning guru) He told me they got a big shipment of coral and Red Sea fish.
I couldnt contain myself.... so we now have a blue tang the size of a 50 cent coin.
My "tank elves" already called her Dory, what a surprise.
She is eating like a pig.
The tank elves have named her Dory, what a surprise.
I made a bud at the LFS (he has an mitsubishi EVO and he knows I am a tuning guru) He told me they got a big shipment of coral and Red Sea fish.
I couldnt contain myself.... so we now have a blue tang the size of a 50 cent coin.
My "tank elves" already called her Dory, what a surprise.
She is eating like a pig.
The tank elves have named her Dory, what a surprise.
toonascott
New member
I need a better camera, what should I get?
I cannot take a pic of the hundreds of little copepods on the glass of my 75. It is amazing how many there are.
I cannot take a pic of the hundreds of little copepods on the glass of my 75. It is amazing how many there are.
Phillybean
New member
I'm planing a set up like that on my 75, I want to be able to control the flow better, so like the idea of a refugium in a different tank.
Now, ToonaScott, do you think a wavemaker or special closed loop set up is needed? Like something from Ocean's Motion. I was just thinking a mag 12, with a 1" infeed and 1" outfeed, the outfeed split into 4, 1/2" pipes, with bulkheads in the tank, with 45 and 90 degree elbows, with those pipe basket things so nothing goes down the pipe if the pump ever dies, pointed in different directions. What do you think?
If you have the main pipe coming out of the pump, with 4 "T"s , or even 2 + fittings, I think it would work...
Now, ToonaScott, do you think a wavemaker or special closed loop set up is needed? Like something from Ocean's Motion. I was just thinking a mag 12, with a 1" infeed and 1" outfeed, the outfeed split into 4, 1/2" pipes, with bulkheads in the tank, with 45 and 90 degree elbows, with those pipe basket things so nothing goes down the pipe if the pump ever dies, pointed in different directions. What do you think?
If you have the main pipe coming out of the pump, with 4 "T"s , or even 2 + fittings, I think it would work...
toonascott
New member
CoralFiend - I am glad you are not giving up. Mother nature gave you a major "hi, I'm in charge!" but I guess that is what attracts me to aquariums in the first place. I little slice of mother nature that I have control of for once.... my life is so busy, my aquarium is the only thing I have control of. That is why it must be perfect....
toonascott
New member
Hey Phillybean, I have been contemplating the "ULTIMATE CLOSED LOOP" along with the "ULTIMATE SKIMMER".
On the closed loop front.... all I can decide on so far is the oceans motions ( ya know what they say... it's not the size of your vessel..it's the Motion in your Ocean) ha, I tried to crack a funny
but seriously now, I think the ocean's motion is the ticket. Plumbing it is going to be this threads biggest challenge.
Now the skimmer canundrum. I am doing a flip flop here my peeps. (I do flip flop alot, it's because I make better decisions when I have all the facts and options)
I had an ASM G3 in my hands tonight - didnt give me a sense of confidence
I had a Kent Nautilaus TE and some other Kent model that mimic'd the ASM.
I think the ultimate skimmer for my project is...... a 12 " pipe running from my house to the ocean 4 blocks from my house. TADA!!!!
Sorry, no skimmer chosen yet. However, there is hope! I am totally in love with the following concept.
Seperate sump for skimmer (recirculating type skimmer)that is fed effluent from calcium reactor, and outlet of skimmer dumps into the refugium.
OH YEAH, and lots of gate valves all over the place.
On the closed loop front.... all I can decide on so far is the oceans motions ( ya know what they say... it's not the size of your vessel..it's the Motion in your Ocean) ha, I tried to crack a funny
but seriously now, I think the ocean's motion is the ticket. Plumbing it is going to be this threads biggest challenge.
Now the skimmer canundrum. I am doing a flip flop here my peeps. (I do flip flop alot, it's because I make better decisions when I have all the facts and options)
I had an ASM G3 in my hands tonight - didnt give me a sense of confidence
I had a Kent Nautilaus TE and some other Kent model that mimic'd the ASM.
I think the ultimate skimmer for my project is...... a 12 " pipe running from my house to the ocean 4 blocks from my house. TADA!!!!
Sorry, no skimmer chosen yet. However, there is hope! I am totally in love with the following concept.
Seperate sump for skimmer (recirculating type skimmer)that is fed effluent from calcium reactor, and outlet of skimmer dumps into the refugium.
OH YEAH, and lots of gate valves all over the place.
CoralFiend
New member
For wavemaking, I too went for the OceansMotions. I have dealt with the folks that own OM (Paul & Cass) now for months. One thing I can promise you, you will never experience customer service like you will get from them. It's unbelievable really. If you have a problem you can email Paul - or call his cell phone (the number is on the front page of their web site).
Since you are looking for ideas, this is the way I plumbed my OceansMotions 4-Way. I drilled one 2.5" hole in the back wall (to accept a 1.5" bulkhead). I didn't want to drill any more holes because of the overflows. I only had a couple of inches between the edge of the overflow and the edges of the back glass. Too close for me. So, I decided to go over the back wall and under the sandbed.
I will return at both the front and back on the bottom of the tank, with the flow pointing upward at a 45 degree angle. These four returns are from two ports of the 4 way that are split. The other two ports of the 4 way will return to the top front corners.
Here are some pics I just took today, as this is what I am doing right now on the 140. Hope this gives you some ideas. You can also go to the OceansMotions web site and go into their forum and look for the Water Pix section. Customers have uploaded hundreds of pictures of their set ups. You can get some great ideas there. If you are still stumped, you can email Paul or just call him and he will help you design the proper flow for your tank.
Here are some pics of the closed loop on the 140. Might give you some ideas.
Since you are looking for ideas, this is the way I plumbed my OceansMotions 4-Way. I drilled one 2.5" hole in the back wall (to accept a 1.5" bulkhead). I didn't want to drill any more holes because of the overflows. I only had a couple of inches between the edge of the overflow and the edges of the back glass. Too close for me. So, I decided to go over the back wall and under the sandbed.
I will return at both the front and back on the bottom of the tank, with the flow pointing upward at a 45 degree angle. These four returns are from two ports of the 4 way that are split. The other two ports of the 4 way will return to the top front corners.
Here are some pics I just took today, as this is what I am doing right now on the 140. Hope this gives you some ideas. You can also go to the OceansMotions web site and go into their forum and look for the Water Pix section. Customers have uploaded hundreds of pictures of their set ups. You can get some great ideas there. If you are still stumped, you can email Paul or just call him and he will help you design the proper flow for your tank.
Here are some pics of the closed loop on the 140. Might give you some ideas.
Phillybean
New member
I guess my question is, whats the point? What does a Ocean's Motion system do, other then change up the current?
My reasoning is, for a lot cheaper I can get a large pump, using PVC, split the outfeed into 4 pipes, with valves on all of them and every few days change the valves a bit. Different flow, and just as much of it, and I save 300 bucks.
If you can sell me on why I need the Oceans Motion system, please try, if you can sell me on it, and I beleive I need it, Im sure I can sell my wife on it
My reasoning is, for a lot cheaper I can get a large pump, using PVC, split the outfeed into 4 pipes, with valves on all of them and every few days change the valves a bit. Different flow, and just as much of it, and I save 300 bucks.
If you can sell me on why I need the Oceans Motion system, please try, if you can sell me on it, and I beleive I need it, Im sure I can sell my wife on it
CoralFiend
New member
I didn't know there would be a test!
Am I going to tell you that your idea won't work? No. I have a couple of friends that have great looking reefs and they use the same setup as you describe.
My take on flow is that it is necessary to help remove waste products from the corals and to keep that waste (along with fish waste and uneaten food) suspended in the water column as long as possible. This will maximize the possibility that it will be skimmed out of the tank by the overflow and not settle to bottom to decompose.
Ideally, I think you would want to avoid "dead spots" where sufficient flow does not occur. Steady constant water movement patterns may lead to certain areas where flow does not reach and create places where detritus will settle.
I think random flow is the way to go. With the direction of flow constantly changing and colliding with other currents within the tank, there is less of a tendency to create dead spots and waste will find it more difficult to settle on the bottom.
For my system, I want to establish random flow. That's why I went with an OceansMotions product. Is this the only way to achieve random flow? No. Personally, I don't like powerheads visible in the tank. While systems like the Tunze Streams are very efficient, I personally don't like the look of two huge powerheads hanging on either side of my display.
It's a matter of preference. If having powerheads hooked to a wavemaker scattered inside of a tank isn't bothersome, then that is a simple way to accomplish random flow. I just don't like to see it.
As far as cost goes, many people will buy a wavemaker (like the Red Sea Wavemaster Pro) and three or four powerheads. The cost of that set up is not much less than just getting an OceansMotions Squirt or 4Way valve.
I like the OceansMotions products because they are simple. They take one main artery of water flow and channel it in many different directions (from 2 to 8) from different locations within the system, creating random flow. They do this with the least amount of effort and they do it very quietly and add no heat to the system, as with powerheads. They are also reliable, with the only moving parts being the easily replaceable drum inside and the motor (which is used in the medical field and can possibly last 15 years or more). It is also easily replaceable. The drum inside can be replaced with different versions to change up the flow patterns.
Lastly, with an OceansMOtions product you will get tremendous customer service and technical advice tailored to your system. Paul Hayton at OM and his wife Cass are a real pleasure to deal with. I have talked to Paul on the phone several times about how to set up my system and have exchanged emails with him at 2am about problems I was having in design. His personal cell phone number is on the front page of their web site. Paul will help you with any problems with the product , even though most are the result of irregularities in plumbing.
Am I going to tell you that your idea won't work? No. I have a couple of friends that have great looking reefs and they use the same setup as you describe.
My take on flow is that it is necessary to help remove waste products from the corals and to keep that waste (along with fish waste and uneaten food) suspended in the water column as long as possible. This will maximize the possibility that it will be skimmed out of the tank by the overflow and not settle to bottom to decompose.
Ideally, I think you would want to avoid "dead spots" where sufficient flow does not occur. Steady constant water movement patterns may lead to certain areas where flow does not reach and create places where detritus will settle.
I think random flow is the way to go. With the direction of flow constantly changing and colliding with other currents within the tank, there is less of a tendency to create dead spots and waste will find it more difficult to settle on the bottom.
For my system, I want to establish random flow. That's why I went with an OceansMotions product. Is this the only way to achieve random flow? No. Personally, I don't like powerheads visible in the tank. While systems like the Tunze Streams are very efficient, I personally don't like the look of two huge powerheads hanging on either side of my display.
It's a matter of preference. If having powerheads hooked to a wavemaker scattered inside of a tank isn't bothersome, then that is a simple way to accomplish random flow. I just don't like to see it.
As far as cost goes, many people will buy a wavemaker (like the Red Sea Wavemaster Pro) and three or four powerheads. The cost of that set up is not much less than just getting an OceansMotions Squirt or 4Way valve.
I like the OceansMotions products because they are simple. They take one main artery of water flow and channel it in many different directions (from 2 to 8) from different locations within the system, creating random flow. They do this with the least amount of effort and they do it very quietly and add no heat to the system, as with powerheads. They are also reliable, with the only moving parts being the easily replaceable drum inside and the motor (which is used in the medical field and can possibly last 15 years or more). It is also easily replaceable. The drum inside can be replaced with different versions to change up the flow patterns.
Lastly, with an OceansMOtions product you will get tremendous customer service and technical advice tailored to your system. Paul Hayton at OM and his wife Cass are a real pleasure to deal with. I have talked to Paul on the phone several times about how to set up my system and have exchanged emails with him at 2am about problems I was having in design. His personal cell phone number is on the front page of their web site. Paul will help you with any problems with the product , even though most are the result of irregularities in plumbing.
what gph pump you using?
get an oceans motions supersquirt if you have under 2000 ( its what i use and i love it. and its proving so reliable i may end up selling my spare OM
im only doing 1200 gph in my 130 reef yet everything is happy. i have so much turbulance that the flow rate dosnt seem to matter ( altho i still want a surge device or ... possiably... build a closed loop you cant have to much flow ^^)
get an oceans motions supersquirt if you have under 2000 ( its what i use and i love it. and its proving so reliable i may end up selling my spare OM
im only doing 1200 gph in my 130 reef yet everything is happy. i have so much turbulance that the flow rate dosnt seem to matter ( altho i still want a surge device or ... possiably... build a closed loop you cant have to much flow ^^)
CoralFiend
New member
Yes, there are different OceansMOtions products, depending on what you want to do. I actually ordered a Super Squirt initially and then in talking to Paul, he thought it was a better idea to have more flow and a 4Way, so they gave me credit and took the Super Squirt (unused) back.
I am using a Sequence ReeFlo Dart, which is about 3600gph - full throttle. Don't know if I will use it full strength yet, so I installed a gate valve to easily adjust the flow rate until I get it just the way I want it. According to the Sequence web site, the Dart can be throttled back to 400gph.
Goda, if you want to increase the flow of your system, I wouldn't add a bigger pump as your main return. It isn't necessary to have a lot of turnover through the sump. A lot of people don't realize this and get a very trubulent sump with tons of micro bubbles in the main display tank as a result. Skimmers only need about a 2 to 3 times system turnover rate per hour to properly skim anyway. The rest of the filtration in your sump, like cabon, mechanical (floss) or phospan doesn't need a lot of turnover either.
So goda, you are probably fine like you are with the main pump. If you want more flow, go with the surge device or closed loop. I always thought the surge devices were cool, but I would think they would be rather messy with salt spray and creep. They also dump tons of bubbles into the tank. I prefer a little more controllable source of flow.
One other thing to consider is what volume of water will the drains in your overflow handle? Most 1" drains will only handle around 600gph. With a closed loop system, this is not an issue.
I am using a Sequence ReeFlo Dart, which is about 3600gph - full throttle. Don't know if I will use it full strength yet, so I installed a gate valve to easily adjust the flow rate until I get it just the way I want it. According to the Sequence web site, the Dart can be throttled back to 400gph.
Goda, if you want to increase the flow of your system, I wouldn't add a bigger pump as your main return. It isn't necessary to have a lot of turnover through the sump. A lot of people don't realize this and get a very trubulent sump with tons of micro bubbles in the main display tank as a result. Skimmers only need about a 2 to 3 times system turnover rate per hour to properly skim anyway. The rest of the filtration in your sump, like cabon, mechanical (floss) or phospan doesn't need a lot of turnover either.
So goda, you are probably fine like you are with the main pump. If you want more flow, go with the surge device or closed loop. I always thought the surge devices were cool, but I would think they would be rather messy with salt spray and creep. They also dump tons of bubbles into the tank. I prefer a little more controllable source of flow.
One other thing to consider is what volume of water will the drains in your overflow handle? Most 1" drains will only handle around 600gph. With a closed loop system, this is not an issue.
toonascott
New member
I too have tried multiple powerheads and "wavemakers", to no avail. I am constantly moving powerheads around to battle cyano.
I also think one external pump and an ocean's motion, create less heat and maybe even use less electricity.
I have also looked a product that creates one giant "wave" in your tank. Seeing it in action, looks like it will rip the tank apart.
I am am going to drill my tank, and setup an ocean's motion, and run the return lines just like Coralfiend.
I find flow is the trickiest part of the tank. Some corals want lots, some like very little.
I am going to put corals in my tank that like moderate to high flow.
I can always put low flow corals in my 40.
I also think one external pump and an ocean's motion, create less heat and maybe even use less electricity.
I have also looked a product that creates one giant "wave" in your tank. Seeing it in action, looks like it will rip the tank apart.
I am am going to drill my tank, and setup an ocean's motion, and run the return lines just like Coralfiend.
I find flow is the trickiest part of the tank. Some corals want lots, some like very little.
I am going to put corals in my tank that like moderate to high flow.
I can always put low flow corals in my 40.
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