people who go with "almost" no Water Changes needed!

Of course we need ASW as many people don't live near the sea. I myself use more than 90% ASW as I am getting lazy and it gets heavier every year. But to me, there is no comparism to NSW. It even tasted different. Go ahead, stick a straw in your tank and drink some. What are you, a Sissy? Then jump in the surf and taste real water. Big difference. I wonder why.
This is what I am talking about.
 
Though on a minute scale, our tanks are no different.

They are small closed systems packed with life foods and waste compared to volumes in the sea. They are very different. The sea is very stable overall.
 
Though on a minute scale, our tanks are no different.

They are small closed systems packed with life foods and waste compared to volumes in the sea. They are very different. The sea is very stable overall.

Yet still behave similarly. Yes, the food chain takes place in our little glass box.
 
Turning it back on you, why would you not recommend changing 100% of the water? The vast majority of bacteria will stay on the rock and substrate. What is wrong with changing 100% of the water and using ASW?

IMO, exposing many reef creatures is undesirable.

I also believe that organics tend to bind most of the organics given a chance, but there is no such chance in ASW freshly added at 100%. Copper, for example, is almost entirely chelated by natural organics in NSW, but not in ASW until it has a change to mix with the organic matter present.

So these are at least 2 reasons I'd avoid big water changes. The first applies to any water and the second to ASW. :)

Unnecessary expense and bother is another that also applies to any type of water.
 
I also believe that organics tend to bind most of the organics given a chance,

I have no idea what this means, but you are the chemist with as many degrees as a thermometer and I am an electrician. I still believe that in some cases, changing to much water is bad. But I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. :spin2:
 
But I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. :spin2:

I don't think you are wrong.

At the end of the day if one practices reef keeping conscientiously then most of the tank crash threads probably wouldn't exist. Sure, there will be those due to mechanical failures or something else going wrong, but if a tank is built around common principles. Substrate to lights, fish, inverts, and corals, working together, then I'd wager less is right.

It should all work together just on a smaller scale if we keep what can naturally co-exist. Or so that is how I was taught...

Edit: Nice picture btw Paul. I was just at Monterey a couple weeks back and had a similar day. No diving but I made sure to visit the beach while my better half was shopping and spoke to those diving from the beach.
 
My 135 mixed reef is coming up on its 10 year anniversary. I fought with it for the first two years with one bloom after another of various algae: hair, lobo, diatoms, bubble, you name it, I've been through it, and was doing biweekly (or more often) 5-20 gallon water changes to try to combat. I ran phos, carbon, etc. and changed it religiously. I pulled bucket after bucket of hair algae out of it for months. Eventually I got frustrated, went back to the drawing board, got a better skimmer and setup a fuge with chaeto and just let things run their course. I now change water maybe twice per year (20 gal each). I have a pretty good "feel" for when things are happy, and only test parameters when the "canaries" in the coal mine start to look off. At one point I went 2 years without logging a test (I'm sure I did test a couple times but just forgot to log it). I use kalk in the top off, and dose Alk, Ca, and Mg, and maybe a cap of trace elements every month or two. I have some bubble algae and some cyano spots here and there, but I figure that's just part of the biology of my system. Nothing runs out of control (except the ricordea!) and I have robust mix of softies, LPS, and low light SPS (T5 lighting). Corals have just about filled the entire tank at this point, so I have no room to add more. Bioload is fairly light since my flame angel and purple tang harass all newcomers to death. Those two have been in for 6+ years, and my three Pajama Cardinals have been in from day 1. I am always trying to improve my methods and care practices, but at the same time I hate maintenance, so the tank has kind of evolved as a balance between what I do and what it will support. In this case, it seems to work fine for both of us.

There are many reefers who followed your path with ups and downs and learning from it. I followed that path too.
I have seen and done it all and always followed my own way.
I was criticised for it, but when i reach a level which was above average, people became curious and started asking serious questions.
So don't be afraid to think out of the box, but be responsible with you live stock.
Share you knowledge for those who are interested, only then we can all move forward.:)
 
IMO, exposing many reef creatures is undesirable.

I also believe that organics tend to bind most of the metals given a chance, but there is no such chance in ASW freshly added at 100%. Copper, for example, is almost entirely chelated by natural organics in NSW, but not in ASW until it has a change to mix with the organic matter present.

So these are at least 2 reasons I'd avoid big water changes. The first applies to any water and the second to ASW. :)

Unnecessary expense and bother is another that also applies to any type of water
.

I agree .

I find it easier and more consistent. Less bother with exactness in temp , precise mixing and supplementaion to bring elements to a perfect match with the aquarium water when the water change is small and frequent vs large and infrequent.
 
I used to be like many reefers who swore up and down that WC's were just a necessity to decrease organics, heavy metals, and organics.
Do I do wc's? Yes, about 6 per year...but my best reefing buddy, who many of you own his named sps frags, hasn't done a water change in 6+ years...I've went round and round with him for years, but in the end he won...my arguments don't have much weight anymore since most if his 1" frags sell for $100+. Hard to argue with results.
 
Yes it is and that is why I always say to change water but I believe we can change to much water because if some tanks can go for years with no water changes, we are thinking about this wrong. I am not saying to never change water but every day or week is rediculous.
 
!% per day is not ridiculous;odd word choice.
It works very well for me without taking out or putting in too much of any element or organic and let's the aquarium remain relatively consistent. Would a half a percent ,a tenth of a percent per day be enough; maybe;depends on the tank; I guess.
I think there is a risk with large changes frequent or infrequent in terms of creating unplanned changes in the chemistry and biology of the tank.
 
Some of the tanks noted for long term survival without any water changes rely more on measuring and dosing major . minor and trace elements and attempting to chase a myriad of numbers with complex supplementation schemes. Some just have limited types of corals of average to below par vibrancy. I find it easier to do small diaily water changes.
 
Does this tank look like stocked with limited species?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2395250

It has been running since 2005 with no water changes...

Of course you need to do something in return.... you don't get result by doing nothing in return.

Some people believe in water changes others in taking control.
Do what ever works and what you believe is best for your situation

I find measuring and dosing easier than messing with the water barrels.
Beside that it provide me with more information and a better understanding of my corals and their needs. Far more than just swapping water every week.:)
 
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but my best reefing buddy, who many of you own his named sps frags, hasn't done a water change in 6+ years...I've went round and round with him for years, but in the end he won...my arguments don't have much weight anymore since most if his 1" frags sell for $100+. Hard to argue with results.

Presumably, people selling a lot of frags probably do water changes whether they intend to or not every time they ship out a frag. :)
 
Does this tank look like stocked with limited species?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2395250

It has been running since 2005 with no water changes...

Of course you need to do something in return.... you don't get result by doing nothing in return.

Some people believe in water changes others in taking control.
Do what ever works and what you believe is best for your situation

I find measuring and dosing easier than messing with the water barrels.
Beside that it provide me with more information and a better understanding of my corals and their needs. Far more than just swapping water every week.:)

Your tank is beautiful, Glenn. Just another example that there are many different husbandry methods to use to have a nice reef tank!
 
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