pico reef pest algae problem challenge

Wow you have all the sensitives!! We're pretty spoiled so far in that a huge portion of our dose tanks had only 1 or none... Before you get started let's brainstorm I say

The algae you describe is treatable with peroxide so that's a plus, of course with these sensitives in mind. If you can contact peroxide on it, those invaders will die it won't be a waste of time.

Can we see a full tank shot just to get a guess? There is not any problem in using non peroxide approaches if we can't find some way, we are mindful of your inverts...

Those inverts aren't immediately killed by brief emersion, so is any of the target up high where you can lift out a rock for an external treatment or guided by Murphys law like I assume they are all buried within a complex rock structure down lo

Lol
 
I still cruise weekly the big peroxide threads online for details/recurrences, info to transmit to our threads here and at nano reef

Threads bigger than this one can be found on r 2 r and Manhattan reefs for examples of threads where my heavy bias is not there or at least flooding the posts...I have seen posters claim both Lysmatas and clams and rbta's were successfully treated by an in-tank variation, a low dose

There are multiple posts about it, but there are more posts of stress/loss than success so that's where the list of 6 (so far) originates, from collected and repeating online anecdotes.

The wet paper towel technique, laid over a target while tank is drained, has shown effective at spot delivery and runoff prevention. Still just brainstorming

Its nice we have time to contemplate using or not using it before taking action.
 
One of the challenges with an online reference thread are the incompletes...we would be greatly benefited in having the neomeris updates started a few pages ago, napoli's tough tough green rock issue and aquamans Dino update.

I enjoy starting any new challenge but without those updates a very critical portion of data is missing

I would estimate between here and nano reef there are 30+ pm tanks who never followed up as well. Its predictable if they had trouble we'd still be in contact...but those update pics, without them this thread is useless. Pics are the closest thing to proof we can get, testimonies don't mean much to the skeptics (pics don't either for permaskeptics but with enough, for long enough, they'll have to change slowly)

To track long term results, the only way to win skeptics, we must have at least a first update! Ohiomom's update was the critical first that got us rolling here with pics
 
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I will work on a full tank shot this weekend. The clam can be removed, as he is attached nicely to a 6x6 rock that is seperate from my main rock structure. He has some bubble algae on his shell. I believe I can get to most of the problem areas by draining the tank and or removing rock to treat outside of the tank. My concern with the fromia is his diet is believed to consist solely of micro film algae. So complete irradication of this would be bad. So I really dont want to dose my entire tank. Also my tank is very full of frags. Last count I believe was around 75. Not bad eh? Nearly two frags per gallon!
 
That's excellent, I like to pack pico reefs like that but the $ and patience to do that in a large tank makes me enjoy looking at all these big tanks someone else is working! I hate not ever getting to own fish or a mature crocea that part of ultra micro pico reefing stinks.
 
So I took some pics this weekend, but since my daughter was the last to use the camera I can't find the USB cable to upload them.
 
I wanted to add these tidbits Napi in the form of a giant rambling post (again) thanks for posting back I understand you've been dealing with a fair bit of outside responsibilities and your tank isn't going anywhere so we get to things when we can! the best is there is no hurry to act, any tank here was fine before peroxide testing even if a little greener than we'd like, taking this slow is preferable to any rush.

So I had mentioned in pm your tank to be in the top two most challenging set of treatment circumstances Id seen, those prior 3% spot testings that didn't register day 2 bleaching still have me head scratching and considering you got mutant algae lol and you had mentioned that some spot 19% did indeed burn it after a bit of delay again I couldn't figger out...

so when considering a tankwide dosage to bridge together at least some kind of activity and a possibility of helping your situation Im expecting not much to occur since we couldn't even get an emersed spot test to register. again Id say buy one more bottle from a pharmacy for 75 cents brand new just to always start on that footing.

I like to type opinionated when i feel sure about something regarding peroxide but regarding upper known tolerances for mixed fish systems I cant recall ever seeing that, the data is just not there. too many people hate the idea of even using it to study it formally like that.

Should you measure and attempt anything within some of the basic parameters I'll posit thats a tremendous helpful foot in the door even if you dont beat the algae and I have to post a loss of efficacy for the first time in this thread! You will have begun -some- kind of documentation on basic upper tolerances.

What I have read online and been told in person regarding guesstimate tolerances:

My LFS owner 20 years in the game keeps literal gallons of 35% on hand in back room to dump in his $20K+ display tanks for power outages. Serious hours-long googling will reveal this practice done in freshwater and saltwater for truly decades, maybe back to the fifties, in pet shops as a known oxygen booster in crowded tanks when support systems are down.

Theres no method to the madness, they just dump it in. Not anywhere near careful like what we do and while people are seething at us for using puny 3% lol which is laughable in comparison :)

My LFS's tank is mixed stony corals for sale and very profitable prices, your standard fare of sps's, acans, blue and orange linkia and sponges, huge scolymias, every darn thing you would expect from any given fish store and he personally told me several times he'd dump like half a gallon of new 35% into these 220 gallon displays when he saw fish hovering up top, naturally pooling towards the best oxygen gradients.

Same is said online in deep googling, they just dump it in.

So from that I draw nobody knows the dang true upper limit but they push the boundaries pretty hard and lose nothing they can tell from the practice. I told him incidentally he was doing a number on any diatoms or algae in the making he just laughed and said he'd never heard peroxide used for that reason, it was strictly an oxygenator for his cause. He used liberal disgusting amounts I couldn't recommend with fifty people wanting to bash me for trying to get people to use it as an algaecide lol

The very few and distant online threads from 8-10 years ago I found in deep googling on the matter said that peroxide toxicity will show up in the gills as the first receptive organ to exhibit a pre failure condition. You would mentally take note of the opercular action of your fish before treatment, and the gill coloration if viewable, to watch for changes.

As you slowly dose more and more to try and see if algae will respond, and you are using a safer 3% than I mentioned above, it seems you can start pretty darn liberal past the 1 ml/10 mark with zero expectations of fish loss truly at any known dosage. If they begin pumping gills hard, or the gills become reddened and protruding in an attempt to expel respiratory CO2/uptake systemic O2 because they can't respire, a large water change would be in order. I don't personally know an antidote for high oxygen in a tank or how to bind it other than to replace with cleaner water that is more natural in o2 content.

Im sure any residend chemists will know what to put into a reactor that has an affinity for O2, how you would prevent over scrubbing i dont know and am happy to learn. The big water change is surely a safe bet with much elbow grease involved.

Regarding water changes I say dont do any. In your size tank 3%, most likely to have no effect on your algae unless we get lucky somehow, should simply dissociate in a few days time. Id think that exporting too much of it will just lower the dissolved oxygen amounts back to pre treatment balances and offset any gain from the addition.

We are really in new territory on this one man we are going to have to proceed by feel.

Ive linked in previous pages other peroxide threads although I can't specifically recall where posters aiming to kill diatoms were bashing our 1:10 safe zone and said he had to get up to 4ml per ten gallons to beat it, still with no tank inhabitant loss and he had the usual fare of photosynthetic corals.

Im sure in any generalized dosing especially in sustained, ~4 ml:10 dosing there could be some collateral losses of some things so we'll just have to weigh that against the possibility of fixing the problem without having to deconstruct your tank and bleach the hell out of everything.

But to protect your tank again I recall you aren't short on gear...holding tanks etc, so I have to truly recommend you set up a separate tank with a few boulders of your finest and dose -that- tank with 4 mls per gallon and watch results with no fish or even corals, just see if a week of dosing 3x per that week does anything to the evil green rock lol

if you get nothing, I say don't dose your big tank and I'll hang my head in defeat after 23 pages and you'll give me regret nightmares dr sigmund couldn't repair.
 
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Ok I went yesterday and got a brand new bottle of 3% and removed what ever corals that weren't glued down and dosed 14ml's.

Corals left in my tank

All of my zoo's (high end) closed up for 40seconds then opened back up.

Green digi Looks great

Rainbow milli looks great

Sunset monti looks great

cleaner Shrimp (couldn't catch him) looks great acting fine


All of my rock looks the same the fish are ok. One thing I forgot to do was take my GFO off line I'm not sure if that makes a difference. I'm going to try 3ml/10 tomorrow and hold off there. I just don't want anything to happen to my fish.

I Think I should call NASA and have them do some test on this rock:headwally:
 
can anyone guess who just reached the end of his patience! hahahahahahaha:uzi:
 

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I was hoping you would share your experience, I actually found this thread from your original post.

I didn't measure a thing. I just had my wife bring home 3 bottles - I didn't realize there was nearly 1000ML's in a bottle. I didn't measure as there is nothing living in the tank but marco rock. I dosed last night, I will try to wait until tomorrow to dose again.

I appreciate your feedback and will plan to get some GFO online soon. No FTS, but I grabbed a couple from my phone. It's really bad in person, some 6" long....

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Here is a quick after shot. I'll take a FTS if you want, but only this side was lighted. Pretty much decimated my Bryopsis. Dosed about 1800ml's over a 5 day period, had no fish or corals in the tank. I did absolutely NO MANUAL REMOVAL. MY HANDS NEVER ENTERED THE TANK. I DID NOT SCRUB WITH THE MAG FLOAT FOR FEAR OF SPREADING SPORES!

I've now begun stocking and added clean up crew.

Thanks again Brandon - I'll be doing this for all algae issues on frags, etc as the tank grows.

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And thank you for the great pics and no-inhabitant dosing limits you found. This is -perfect- for new tanks who do not want to follow the old rules of having an early algae phase, its purely optional and I too opt the heck out.
 
Here is my update. I gave up and bought all new rock.

I hope my findings helps everyone else:

Fish are unaffected by 3% . I dosed 40ml everyday for a week on 90 gal and the fish were fine along with my cleaner shrimp and all of my inverts.

I dosed everyday for a week and a half and had no change in the algae.


Brandon thanks for all of your help with this!!!
 
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