PO'd about Zoas

[Overgrown]

Im not one to get into flame exchanges on computer forums, so lets take it easy Its a discussion. Nothing more. But are you referencing the numerous Reefcentral threads that discuss the differences between Zs/Ps? Because who hasnt read those threads? As for the specific scientific genus corresponding to the piece in question, can you enlighten us as to the specifics of the specimen's class? I hope youre not basing your theory on the sediment on the stalk or the mouth, because the initial frag I acquired displayed sediment in the stalk in my fine sand display, yet is nice and clean in the barebottom frag tank. But I get it: when all else fails, redirect attention elsewhere Glad to head over to that thread however so as to not take this one off track.

 

[XSharkboyX]

Im not one to get into flame exchanges on computer forums, so lets take it easy

:debi:You either have a selective memory problem or just a flat out terrible memory"¦ Take a look back at post #137. You flamed my signature first, that states I boycott named corals. BTW this is a reefing forum not a forum about computers.

Its a discussion. Nothing more.

We are having a discussion. We are discussing how you do not know the difference between a zoanthid and a palythoa"¦

But are you referencing the numerous Reefcentral threads that discuss the differences between Zs/Ps? Because who hasnt read those threads?

I was not and will not reference any thread on reef central that talks about the different characteristics, classification, or behaviors of zoanthids vs palythoas because over 95% of the people on reef central cannot tell the difference. I will however share a bit of information with you that 99.9% of polyps sold as "œpalys" are a Zoanthus sp.

As for the specific scientific genus corresponding to the piece in question, can you enlighten us as to the specifics of the specimen's class?

There you go again using those big words... The "œspecific scientific genus corresponding to the piece in question" is Zoanthus. Plain and simple, no question about it. As far as enlightening you on the class Anthozoa, click on this link"¦ http://lmgtfy.com/?q=class+anthozoa
I do not have the time to go into explicit details about cnidarians. You can find pretty much all the information that is in my brain on the subject in any good coral book, or the www. If you wish to have your mind blown in person I can meet you for beers sometime and tell you all the information you want to know"¦

I hope youre not basing your theory on the sediment on the stalk or the mouth, because the initial frag I acquired displayed sediment in the stalk in my fine sand display, yet is nice and clean in the barebottom frag tank.

It's not a theory it's fact. I can tell by glancing at the polyp, even if your picture is of one single immature polyp.

But I get it: when all else fails, redirect attention elsewhere Glad to head over to that thread however so as to not take this one off track.

I was not and did not redirect attention anywhere else. If I wanted to do that I would have told everyone to look back in your vast previous post count to your selling threads where you were selling single polyp frags at outrageous prices"¦
As far as the comment you made about letting you know if I see them in a fish store"¦ If I would have known you 6-8 years ago I could have told you a dozen places that those polyps were being sold at on any given day of the week. They are not rare at all. Just because you or the guy you bought them from only has 1 or 2 polyps of them does not make them rare. Nor does attaching a ridiculous name and charging more money for them.
I hate to be the bad guy here but the price gouging sellers like you are not helping this hobby at all. They continue to kill it every day one polyp at a time.

If you wish to continue this discussion further I will do so in PM as I do not want this thread getting locked. Far too many individuals have thanked the people speaking out in this thread for opening their eyes or saying what they do not have the courage to say.

 

[19jeffro83]

That is a flat out lie... They all grow like weeds. If they are not growing in your tank then you dont know what you are doing. Who ever convinced you that "higher priced/nicer colored" zoas = slower growers is very unintelligent... :lmao: It makes me giggle... Reefers in Europe used to, and still do, throw zoanthids and palythoas away because they grow soo fast in a healthy reef tank. Notice I said reef tank, not frag tank...
The only reason tiny frags take forever to grow is because they get butchered into 1 or 2 polyp frags. People expect them to take right off and flourish when you have severed the tiny colony into tiny pieces. You can't frag a frag. Ever cut your grass too short? It's pretty much the same concept...

This price gouging fad has been an ongoing battle for several years. It is a good thing that people are still discussing it as it sheds light on zoas to some of the newbies. (Pun intended) I'm not really PO'd About Zoas I"m PO'd about the people who ruined zoa keeping. Some people complain that it does nothing to sit around and talk about the problem. While I agree with you to an extent I personally did something about it like some of the other old time true reefers did. I quit.

I got out. I tore down my pride and joy. My reef was gone. I decided that I was no longer going to support or be a part of something that I did not agree with. My passion had been killed overnight by worthless turd sandwiches. Reefing had gone from a hobby to a money making fad. There was nothing I could do about it. Some of you may not agree with my stance or my solution but I really had no choice. I couldn't walk into any LFS anymore and without looking at hefty price tags and named corals/inverts. Online forums were filled up with picture threads that were intended for newbies to pm the posters about purchasing. With price gougers in every corner of the hobby it was becoming very difficult to find decent hobbiests to trade with and discuss reef topics. Yes thats right, we used to discuss reef topics together. The hobby was about soo much more then. There was rarely selling. People gave frags to each other or traded.
AND THE FRAGS.... The frags back then would be considered small colonies now. Even if someone had a rare blue, red or white morph they would take the extra week to grow it out before they cut some off.

I can honestly say, and I think any old school true reefers here (If there are any left) would agree with me that we used to trade polyps then that any price gouger would KILL for now. I can think of at least 10 morphs that I gave away when I tore down my tank that most people have never seen. It's because they have no name... The general public has no idea what rare is... The named polyps that are being offered for sale now are not new or "rare." They are the same morphs that we would give away 10 years ago. :lmao: It blows my mind that people would line up for blocks to spend $100 a polyp for common zoas that had a fresh "name." Better get there fast though, because they are limited edition and they are only offering 1000 single polyp frags this week...

For now I have devoted my time to my other long-time passion of keeping sharks and rays. I may one day come back to reefing, but it will be long after all the price gougers have run everyone off and prices hit rock bottom where they belong. They still only pay the native collector $.25 at best for every colony of zoas he brings up no matter what color they are....


:beer: Cheers

The fact that you put this much energy into this reply astounds me first off.
As well as the obvious lack of zoathid keeping. That's cool that you purchased a bunch of colonies and had an instant tank full of life, to each there own. I like to grow from a seed. Did you ever try that? I also like beautiful color and variety. Not so much jnto the dookie brown stuff. I just think your a tightwad honestly. So have your opinion and ill have mine. IMO different zoas and palys need different conditions so saying they all grow like weeds makes you sound "ignorant" they do all grow different and also have separate needs in comparison. I'm glad you're so smart and experienced to realize that your system isn't the same as everyone else's. kudos to you master!

 

[XSharkboyX]

The fact that you put this much energy into this reply astounds me first off.

Much like a lot of things you say, this comment makes no sense. It took me about 8 minutes at best to type out that response. If that qualifies as a lot of expelled energy then I guess you are lazy.

As well as the obvious lack of zoathid keeping.

Pretty bold coming from someone who has been in the hobby for 5 minutes and has a frag tank. I wouldn't really consider myself to have been in the hobby a long time compared to some of the greats. I guess it depends on if you think 13 years is a long time. Of those 13 years I have been keeping zoas and palys the whole time. If that qualifies as a lack of zoanthid keeping then everyone on this site except for Muchoreef has "œthe obvious lack of zoanthid keeping."Or do you consider him to have a "œobvious lack of zoanthid keeping" as well. I guess a good question for you would be what qualifies an individual to have an obvious plethora of zoanthid keeping? I am assuming you are talking about zoanthid knowledge and not a polyp count"¦

That's cool that you purchased a bunch of colonies and had an instant tank full of life, to each there own.

You failed to see my point. My point was that reefers knew better than to cut single polyps off of rocks and sell them. Frags back then were no less than a dozen polyps. If you consider that to be a colony then wow the perception of newbs is a lot worse off than I thought"¦ You do not get an instant tank of life when you put colonies into a reef tank. It takes skill and time to grow a reef.

I like to grow from a seed. Did you ever try that?

No I cannot say that I have ever tried growing zoas from a seed. I was unaware that was even possible. :celeb1: Congratulations to you on figuring out a way to do that"¦ wow"¦ This new generation of reefers are a step ahead of us old school guys. Times they are a changin"¦

I also like beautiful color and variety. Not so much jnto the dookie brown stuff.

That's great"¦ Again, whoever convinced you that more colorful and named polyps should command more money is unintelligent. Or maybe they are smart in your opinion; it depends on what you think of con artists.

I just think your a tightwad honestly.

Bro"¦ There is a difference between being a tightwad and not being an idiot. Just because you have been fooled into paying ridiculous prices for designer polyps does not make everyone else in the hobby a tightwad because they are smart enough to see through the BS"¦ I have spent more money on reefing books than you have on your setup. Guess that makes me a tightwad and probably makes me have an "obvious lack of reefing"¦"

So have your opinion and ill have mine. IMO different zoas and palys need different conditions so saying they all grow like weeds makes you sound "ignorant" they do all grow different and also have separate needs in comparison.

LOL. Here is one thing you have been right about so far. Some of them do have different conditions that they prefer. It is your job as a hobbyist to figure that out"¦ I guess I should not have assumed that everyone knew what I meant by they all grow like weeds in a healthy reef, please forgive me for that"¦ I did specify a healthy reef later in that same paragraph. Again, I assumed by saying "œa healthy reef" that everyone could figure out it meant that the needs of all inhabitants were being met. For clarification purposes; THEY ALL GROW LIKE WEEDS IN A HEALTHY REEF IF YOU GIVE THEM THE RIGHT CONDITIONS AND BY HEALTHY REEF/GIVE THEM THE RIGHT CONDITIONS I MEAN MAKE SURE THE NEEDS OF ALL THE INHABBITANTS ARE BEING MET AND BY MAKE SURE THE NEEDS OF ALL THE INHABBITANTS ARE BEING MET I MEAN MAKE SURE ALL THE LIVING ORGANISMS INSIDE YOUR AQUARIUM ARE GETTING THE PROPER CARE AND BY PROPER CARE I MEAN LIGHTING/FLOW/FOOD/ECT"¦
Man it is a good thing I'm ignorant I don't have to use punctuation anymore.

I'm glad you're so smart and experienced to realize that your system isn't the same as everyone else's. kudos to you master!

:lolspin:I don't really have a response to this"¦

 

[Pallobi]

We appear to have a troll...

 

[Chriskid]

man i usually stick to the club forum, however i wanted to see what "the big reef people" had to say. I am more sorry for wasting my time reading the arguments and the bashing. It is an embarrassment to even be so cocky. It seems again that no one is helping anyone here on this thread. Bravo to all the experts, however if all seems to just argue i think you all should have a conference at a "Bar" back ally or whatever floats your boat.

 

[XSharkboyX]

I call it like I see it. No BS, no sugar coating... If you wanna play with the bull you are going to get the horns.
The people who are making money hand over fist in this hobby are the ones fighting for the names and high prices. That's how it has always been. On the flip side the reefers who are fed up speak against it. Some channel their opinion in different ways.

 

[XSharkboyX]

Double post.

 

[650-IS350]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = answer

 

[kichimark]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = answer

Hey Charles, long time bud. How is your PSL going? Enjoying the show?

 

[Chriskid]

why then dont all of you guys that are complaining just buy your own box of zoa/palys from the islands. no middle men, instead of ,ill say it again"taking your ball and leaving the reef hobby" no one is stopping you.

and im am not making money hand over fist, not hardly any even. i give more away then i ever sell. i just enjoy talking about them and enjoying these wonderful animals.

and on another note, i love the satisfaction of growing a large colony of them from a frag. it sure beets a bought reef, i prefer to grow one i am proud of.

 

[Overgrown]

Hey boys, good to see the discussion is ongoing. Sharkboy: fair enough. I did somewhat call out your sig. Actually I didn't really specifically call out your sig, I was more so highlighting the irony dispalyed in these threads( disinterest of taking part in expensive and/or named corals)and how they're always spawned by the very individuals who aren't interested in taking part in $ and/ or named corals. The phenomenon is not unlike that South Park episode ("Goobacks") where the local mob townsfolk angrily blurt out " They took er jobs!" and offer no real definitive structure or solution for their discontent. On a separate note I always hear about reefers who have been in the hobby for decades talking about "the good ol days" when all these pieces cost 5 bucks for a colony. If nothing has changed but the prices and not the quality and color morphs of corals, shouldn't there be decades old massive colonies of all of the so called high ends that fetch a higher price? Or could it be that there are far more unique, drastically more colorful morphs that are avail to the hobby these days. Personally when I see someone spending their $ on things that I find absurd, I mentally acknowledge the observation and move on. But all of the reincarnations of these threads always makes for some entertaining reading. Carry on!

 

[megadeth72]

there are old colonies that have the same color as "insert hipster name here"

most sps keepers viewed zooanthids as a pest

 

[Chriskid]

there are old colonies that have the same color as "insert hipster name here"

most sps keepers viewed zooanthids as a pest

really??? please, im an sps keeper and ive found the joy in polyps aswell, once again if you buy a reef then ya, if you grow one then they are all where you want them.

 

[megadeth72]

really??? please, im an sps keeper and ive found the joy in polyps aswell, once again if you buy a reef then ya, if you grow one then they are all where you want them.

not sure if your new to the hobby, but people have gone so far as to pull rocks out and scrub the rocks to remove mushrooms and zooanthids

zooanthids/mushrooms will both kill sps

 

[Chriskid]

ya im new

 

[Chriskid]

if you grow one then they are all where you want them.

i also have an efflo killing my zoas.

some of these statements above are just plain arrogant. or ignorant,not sure which.

 

[Biocubehqi]

not sure if your new to the hobby, but people have gone so far as to pull rocks out and scrub the rocks to remove mushrooms and zooanthids

zooanthids/mushrooms will both kill sps

This is a true statement, keep the zoas to keep wife happy... Mushrooms are a plague, they killed my prized tort...

 

[Biocubehqi]

I guess I would say I like zoas, but we need a mushroom hating page... I shoulda read b4 posting....

 

[kichimark]

This is a true statement, keep the zoas to keep wife happy... Mushrooms are a plague, they killed my prized tort...

Ah, you folks mentioned the "M" word. Man I regret adding the shrooms since I am constantly removing them. Never understood why they cost so much either. Them and clove polyps are overpriced IMO. I like clove polyps and have around four different types but they grow super fast and many stores charge per polyp. I give them away to newbs with the warning.