PO'd about Zoas

[Chriskid]

on another note,for discussion purposes i see no one is talking about getting there zoas from the islands at around 35$ a colony,however you need to get a whole box+ shipping. why is this?

and as for gouging, at what point is there no alternative places to get these animals? they are all over,there for not gouging.

price gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

 

[KafudaFish]

A few posts ago there was mention of the good ol’ days of zoa keeping and this is something that I have thought about from time to time but I have never put much energy into finding an answer. There are those out there that could probably answer this in a few minutes and some have even participated in this thread though I doubt if they will return to help. Another reason is I doubt if anyone could provide anything other than a best guess though it probably would be in the ball park.

Here it goes:

How many color morphs were there in 1995?
2005?
Remember names really weren’t widely used and when you went to a frag swap you asked for the blue zoas, no the ones with the red too.
2013?

Without knowing the numbers, I bet most (almost 100%) would say that the number of morphs has increased dramatically. All that we have to do is look at some of the tanks on RC and other sites or go to an online website and click on view all and see 100+ color morphs and most of those have names.

However I wonder if we really are “seeing” more and more on the level we think we are seeing. Again I could be completely wrong but again how would I know.

Over the last 3 to 5 years every now and then a thread starts about a new color morph out and it being the new must have go to polyp. At some point it is pointed out that the new morph has been out since 200x or even earlier. Things die down and the hobby moves onto the next one and so on. Somewhere down the line that new must have is the same color morph that was discussed previously and was around 10 years ago.

Yes I am sure new color morphs have been collected but what hasn’t been collected in the last 5 years? People will collect whatever is hot and the businesses will sell whatever is hot for us.

Again not of the answer but it would be interesting to know.


On a side note and again there are those that could answer the why question above but I know a local reefer who would buy from a wholesaler out of LA rocks with zoa colonies on them. He would get 30 to 50 pounds of rock and have 20 to 30 frags/mini colonies of 5 to 100 polyps each. He would frag a decent frag for himself, 5 to 10 polyps, and then sell similar sized frags for $20 to $40 each depending on size. Fast forward a year and he would have those for sale again.

I am sure we paid for his rock pretty quickly.

 

[19jeffro83]

I call it like I see it. No BS, no sugar coating... If you wanna play with the bull you are going to get the horns.
The people who are making money hand over fist in this hobby are the ones fighting for the names and high prices. That's how it has always been. On the flip side the reefers who are fed up speak against it. Some channel their opinion in different ways.

All you're doing is sounding like a whiney baby. Don't buy things out of your price range. I'm no troll, I'm not even bickering w this complaining sarcastic jerk on the interwebs. You are externally negative and are of no help IMO.
Good for you in your experience, although Some of your claims are nothing but falsies and anicdotal condescending BS, I'm glad you have an opinion but maybe try expressing your passive aggressive attitude in a more positive way. Names make things easier! Prices depend on how pretty things are! I know this is voodoo to you being "OG" and all but deal w it or stick w your ray and shark tanks. I don't make a penny of anything. I enjoy growing from "seed" aka the beginning of a colony, just like while overcrowding a colony will release polyps to give room for the existing and spread the "seed" as well. No need to be so semantic over such a simple analogy, unless of course it confused you.
I'd also like to add the fact as I believe I've stated. I used to see all sorts of shipments come in. My good friend owned a saltwater fish store. I know what he pays for rocks full of "fire and ice", "watermelon", " nuc greens" and all the other COMMON zoanthids seen on the market. I thi I it so see up that "back in the day" the pot luck store pick was so great and cheap. At the same time I'm in to a bit of conservation. I also keep darts and strictly buy only captive bread, for a number of reasons. So tell me what's wrong w paying a little more for something from someone else's tank instead of taking it from nature. ORA does it w sps and fish, people pay a premium for that reason.
Not trying to be combative toward you but you either come across the wrong way, or you're just a jerk dude.
Just some thoughts, Jeff.


Ps. Go a head and knock down my spelling and grammar, I don't give a ****.

 

[19jeffro83]

hey boys, good to see the discussion is ongoing. Sharkboy: Fair enough. I did somewhat call out your sig. Actually i didn't really specifically call out your sig, i was more so highlighting the irony dispalyed in these threads( disinterest of taking part in expensive and/or named corals)and how they're always spawned by the very individuals who aren't interested in taking part in $ and/ or named corals. The phenomenon is not unlike that south park episode ("goobacks") where the local mob townsfolk angrily blurt out " they took er jobs!" and offer no real definitive structure or solution for their discontent. On a separate note i always hear about reefers who have been in the hobby for decades talking about "the good ol days" when all these pieces cost 5 bucks for a colony. If nothing has changed but the prices and not the quality and color morphs of corals, shouldn't there be decades old massive colonies of all of the so called high ends that fetch a higher price? Or could it be that there are far more unique, drastically more colorful morphs that are avail to the hobby these days. Personally when i see someone spending their $ on things that i find absurd, i mentally acknowledge the observation and move on. But all of the reincarnations of these threads always makes for some entertaining reading. Carry on!

+1 like!

 

[Chriskid]

All you're doing is sounding like a whiney baby. Don't buy things out of your price range. I'm no troll, I'm not even bickering w this complaining sarcastic jerk on the interwebs. You are externally negative and are of no help IMO.
Good for you in your experience, although Some of your claims are nothing but falsies and anicdotal condescending BS, I'm glad you have an opinion but maybe try expressing your passive aggressive attitude in a more positive way. Names make things easier! Prices depend on how pretty things are! I know this is voodoo to you being "OG" and all but deal w it or stick w your ray and shark tanks. I don't make a penny of anything. I enjoy growing from "seed" aka the beginning of a colony, just like while overcrowding a colony will release polyps to give room for the existing and spread the "seed" as well. No need to be so semantic over such a simple analogy, unless of course it confused you.
I'd also like to add the fact as I believe I've stated. I used to see all sorts of shipments come in. My good friend owned a saltwater fish store. I know what he pays for rocks full of "fire and ice", "watermelon", " nuc greens" and all the other COMMON zoanthids seen on the market. I thi I it so see up that "back in the day" the pot luck store pick was so great and cheap. At the same time I'm in to a bit of conservation. I also keep darts and strictly buy only captive bread, for a number of reasons. So tell me what's wrong w paying a little more for something from someone else's tank instead of taking it from nature. ORA does it w sps and fish, people pay a premium for that reason.
Not trying to be combative toward you but you either come across the wrong way, or you're just a jerk dude.
Just some thoughts, Jeff.


Ps. Go a head and knock down my spelling and grammar, I don't give a ****.

+1 lol you spelled the last word with asterisks... sorry had to

 

[650-IS350]

So tell me what's wrong w paying a little more for something from someone else's tank instead of taking it from nature

LOL like all the so call NEW morphs or new corals came from someone's tank. They were sourced from the reef by divers paid pennies to the dollar. Transhipped in bulk, cherry pickers grab the colony, chop it up, take pictures with high intense lighting (LED/ALL BLUE Lighting to highlight the colors and worse photoshop ) while using expensive lense's, post and hype on every sight or vendor appropirate sites then charge you 200-350 a single polyp because it cost nature that much. Even though the original colony cost them less then the single polyp he/she is charging. Damn natures hard work does cost a lot for those selling them. Their hard work blood sweat and tear. Cry me a FN river.

and for those that love to always justify the crazy single polyp prices with Supply and demand. SMH. Awesome when the people putting out these prices are also the ones controlling the supply. :lmao: They all benifit by keeping prices up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

If you want this kinda practice to end, STOP PAYING these crazy prices and these price gougers won't be asking for those absorbent prices and forced to drop their prices to realistic amount. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY PRICE GOUGING STOPS. No one buys, more and more vendors obtain the same piece and they charge for lower prices so that other vendors would have to keep adjusting thier prices to compete. In the end when NO ONE pays the stupid price, those zoathids/palys will over flow the market and they would be forced to drop their prices big time to move their stock. :celeb2::celeb2::celeb2: means in the end real prices for us reefers.

 

[Chriskid]

LOL like all the so call NEW morphs or new corals came from someone's tank. They were sourced from the reef by divers paid pennies to the dollar. Transhipped in bulk, cherry pickers grab the colony, chop it up, take pictures with high intense lighting (LED/ALL BLUE Lighting to highlight the colors and worse photoshop ) while using expensive lense's, post and hype on every sight or vendor appropirate sites then charge you 200-350 a single polyp because it cost nature that much. Even though the original colony cost them less then the single polyp he/she is charging. Damn natures hard work does cost a lot for those selling them. Their hard work blood sweat and tear. Cry me a FN river.

and for those that love to always justify the crazy single polyp prices with Supply and demand. SMH. Awesome when the people putting out these prices are also the ones controlling the supply. :lmao: They all benifit by keeping prices up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

If you want this kinda practice to end, STOP PAYING these crazy prices and these price gougers won't be asking for those absorbent prices and forced to drop their prices to realistic amount. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY PRICE GOUGING STOPS. No one buys, more and more vendors obtain the same piece and they charge for lower prices so that other vendors would have to keep adjusting thier prices to compete. In the end when NO ONE pays the stupid price, those zoathids/palys will over flow the market and they would be forced to drop their prices big time to move their stock. :celeb2::celeb2::celeb2: means in the end real prices for us reefers.

price gouging - pricing above the market price when no alternative retailer is available

and just order your own from the islands! why will no one talk about getting your own. CRY BABYS NEED TO GROW UP! what i see is mostly people complaining that can go for a swim and pick your polyp. so in reality it dosent affect you at all.

 

[Chriskid]

you know what, gas cost to much, milk is on the rise, tobacco is 10$ a pack, but Indonesian animals should be 25cents.... holy crap, be happy you able to even keep these jems, in your home no less! Lets complain to congress and get the tax on zoas raised, and limited to.

and if the prices go any higher im going to throw my reef tank away, and order a white bangles tiger for my spare bedroom. that will teach you all. lmao

 

[19jeffro83]

For the books I don't pay any crazy prices nor sell for them. I trade most of what I get now a days and like it that way much better.

 

[Chriskid]

For the books I don't pay any crazy prices nor sell for them. I trade most of what I get now a days and like it that way much better.

nor do i , but im still trying to figure out why the complainers dont go elsewhere, any one that has been in this hobby for a while, know what something is worth.

 

[650-IS350]

LMAO I love it when people call other cry babies when they're trying to educate the rest that the prices they see now is not real but a artificially created by those for their own gain. Awesome bro, you contributed greatly to this thread by the way. Props to you.

 

[650-IS350]

If ya don't like the complaining as you state go back to your forum then like you stated before... since we complain out here =) no one is putting a gun to your head. I was being general in my post's here to educate the masess. but if you want to be personal I can go that way +)

 

[Chriskid]

i wuznt being personal, just general, for education purposes go elsewhere to get your zoas. no one is putting a gun to your head.

 

[19jeffro83]

LOL like all the so call NEW morphs or new corals came from someone's tank. They were sourced from the reef by divers paid pennies to the dollar. Transhipped in bulk, cherry pickers grab the colony, chop it up, take pictures with high intense lighting (LED/ALL BLUE Lighting to highlight the colors and worse photoshop ) while using expensive lense's, post and hype on every sight or vendor appropirate sites then charge you 200-350 a single polyp because it cost nature that much. Even though the original colony cost them less then the single polyp he/she is charging. Damn natures hard work does cost a lot for those selling them. Their hard work blood sweat and tear. Cry me a FN river.

and for those that love to always justify the crazy single polyp prices with Supply and demand. SMH. Awesome when the people putting out these prices are also the ones controlling the supply. :lmao: They all benifit by keeping prices up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

If you want this kinda practice to end, STOP PAYING these crazy prices and these price gougers won't be asking for those absorbent prices and forced to drop their prices to realistic amount. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY PRICE GOUGING STOPS. No one buys, more and more vendors obtain the same piece and they charge for lower prices so that other vendors would have to keep adjusting thier prices to compete. In the end when NO ONE pays the stupid price, those zoathids/palys will over flow the market and they would be forced to drop their prices big time to move their stock. :celeb2::celeb2::celeb2: means in the end real prices for us reefers.

Never said they developed or morphed in their tanks but I'd rather buy a morph from another's tank then one pulled from the ocean. Seems everyone on here likes to manipulate and twist words just for arguements sake.

 

[650-IS350]

LOLZ ok... awesome take. That's what I love about internet or forums. People always take what is said differently or something to what is not meant.

What's said there jeff is in general not inregards to you or Chris. Its info that's out there. people to see make decisions on their own. Hell go ahead and pay for some Red Hornets 350 a polyp when most of us will just wait till it goes down to 5-10 a polyp.

To Chris is that being cry baby ( i love the name calling btw ) I could care less if it was for someone else. We put out the info out there. It's real info like it or not. I don't have to sugar coat it for all so that those who don't agree with with can't digest it better. Never called any of ya'll price gougers nor anyone on this thread. That was a general take on these coral hypers and sellers out there. Re-Read what I said.

 

[650-IS350]

Never said they developed or morphed in their tanks but I'd rather buy a morph from another's tank then one pulled from the ocean. Seems everyone on here likes to manipulate and twist words just for arguements sake.

hmmm never said you said anything to that matter.... did that general statement strike a nerve ??? hmm why would it

 

[19jeffro83]

hmmm never said you said anything to that matter.... did that general statement strike a nerve ??? hmm why would it

"Like all the new coral morphs came from someone's tank" obviously not!
Did t strike a nerve at all. Your wording sure did make it sound that way though.

 

[Chriskid]

im not defending 300$ polyps, more of the names and the goudging pokes. like i stated anyone can go elsewhere. and as for very informative, even you have to admit this is a thread for whining.lol

have you ordered a box of zoas? have you ordered a box from figi? get them and get a grant to sell them for 25cents. better yet grow them and sell them for a dollar. if you pay 350$ for a polyp your an idiot with investment ideas, and nothing more. so in most aspects you deserve it.

 

[650-IS350]

Your wording sure did make it sound that way though.

=) which is why i asked to have you re-read it as there was never an intent at jabs at anyone on this thread. All my posts are there to inform the masses, they its' up to them all to make the decision. =)

 

[650-IS350]

have you ordered a box of zoas? have you ordered a box from figi? get them and get a grant to sell them for 25cents. better yet grow them and sell them for a dollar. if you pay 350$ for a polyp your an idiot with investment ideas, and nothing more. so in most aspects you deserve it.

Totally agree bro. If I had money to burn I would set up my own operation there in Fiji and other islands get direct, pay those divers and workers better, provide these corals at a better price for all to afford and still keep the business going. I would do that just to crash this crazy prices back to real world prices and take down all the gougers out there. It's a hobby, we should all be here to help each other make it easier for others to afford and have nicer corals. which reef clubs are awesome for. But that's just a dream =)

Just love these chop shops and online vendors that have been making a killing on the hobbyist by putting out crazy names crazy prices and hype the hell outta new corals to get every nickle and dime out of it and the buyer. The ones that have no morality of how they do business as long as they make the buck.