Poo? Really. POO?! Where did this theory start? I'm calling Shenanigans!

[Winwood]

I read I believe in an old Aquarium Fish Magazine that studies have shown that coral colonies inhabited by commensal damselfishes show higher growth rates than those without them. The higher growth rates were attributed to the greater nutrient levels present around the inhabited colonies. It has been several years since I read the article so I don't recall every detail of it, but I do seem to remember that the main point of it was the waste produced by the fish was being utilized by the corals.

 

[jungliztkruger]

Fish poop is part of the great "Circle of Life" ! However crappy it's role, it still has that part to play. (Wordplay! )

 

[SPSEMPIRE]

sps are particularly looking for larva for food, plus plankton as well. This is larva from corals, pods, and other inverts.

The waste from the fish adds fuel to the plankton, which feeds the pods, which spawns to feed the sps corals...............

 

[GXPKY]

sps are particularly looking for larva for food, plus plankton as well. This is larva from corals, pods, and other inverts.

The waste from the fish adds fuel to the plankton, which feeds the pods, which spawns to feed the sps corals...............

+1 to this, just like manure on a field, it fuels the growth of algae, plankton, etc, it's all just part of the food chain, it may not directly feed the sps, but indirectly it does.

 

[Alex T.]

I think the hobby is slowly coming full circle. Extremely expensive, more efficient and oversized skimmers seem to be the name of the game. Running GFO, carbon dosing, amino acid supplementation, ZEO,ULNS, and foods such as Oyster Feast and Rod's food are enough to make your head spin when you look at all the possible ways to operate and feed a tank.

When you logically look at it, maybe if we all simply had skimmers rated for our tanks and fed normally we would achieve the same results with some available nutrients always available in the water column at a much easier and inexpensive route. There are quite a few impressive tanks in the TOTM list that don't run any of these methods and we'd kill to have them. Some of the most beautiful SPS tanks do in fact have nitrates between 5 - 10 ppm and their colors are not of this world.

 

[JRF]

Here is some interesting info on "fish poo theary" as pertaining to coral nutrition, and bleaching due to inadequate nutrition...


"Michael Risk and colleagues have made interesting discoveries about the synergistic effects of nutrients and sediment. ...

On the other hand, observations of bleaching events around the world suggest that the "fish poop theory" will not be supported by the data. To confirm this, the results of Reef Check and other datasets such as the AIMS long-term monitoring program could be used to show that reefs with high populations of various guilds of reef fish were often more heavily bleached than reefs with lower populations -- as noted by Alina and others. Good examples for this lack of correlation may be found by comparing well-managed, no-take MPAs such as reefs at Orpheus Island, Australia with fished reefs nearby which bleached equally or less badly in 1998."

Gregor Hodgson, PhD


Extracted from:
Nutrient Deficiency and Coral Bleaching
A Coral-List Server Discussion Thread

 

[risin]

I heard that poo in the ocean (and our tanks I would assume) is consumed, on average, 7 times.I can't remember where or when, but it has always stuck with me. This is no way indicates that SPS eat the poo, but it does get eaten again.

 

[LifeAquatic]

fish poo

fish poo

I always understood that SPS eat zoo plankton and some forms of DOC. DOC is also a major food source for the microfauna in our tank. Fish poop is the main source of DOC in our fish tanks. Surely some of the undigested micro amounts of meaty food from fish poo will feed the SPS. The fish poop supplies food to the microfauna that supply food to the plankton etc. etc. that supply food to our sps. I think this is where you here the term "balance" come in to play. You are balancing your DOC count to create a healthy tank.

 

[ousnakebyte]

Here is some interesting info on "fish poo theary" as pertaining to coral nutrition, and bleaching due to inadequate nutrition...


"Michael Risk and colleagues have made interesting discoveries about the synergistic effects of nutrients and sediment. ...

On the other hand, observations of bleaching events around the world suggest that the "fish poop theory" will not be supported by the data. To confirm this, the results of Reef Check and other datasets such as the AIMS long-term monitoring program could be used to show that reefs with high populations of various guilds of reef fish were often more heavily bleached than reefs with lower populations -- as noted by Alina and others. Good examples for this lack of correlation may be found by comparing well-managed, no-take MPAs such as reefs at Orpheus Island, Australia with fished reefs nearby which bleached equally or less badly in 1998."

Gregor Hodgson, PhD


Extracted from:
Nutrient Deficiency and Coral Bleaching
A Coral-List Server Discussion Thread

This would also support the findings from the study conducted between the Smithsonian and National Geographic a few years back, looking at Palmyra Atoll, Kingman Reef, etc. Bascially, they looked at several different reefs with various levels of human disturbance, primarily overfishing. Reefs that were over-fished had a high prevalence of bleaching/disease and overall less healthy reefs.

On reefs that were not overfished, it was estimated that 80% of fish biomass was locked up in sharks and groupers, keeping the smaller reef fishes in check. Also, overall coral health was better as well.

I'm not really sure where that "fish poo" thinking came from either, unless it's the fish poo -> feeds microfauna -> feeds corals, which I guess is possible. Most sps corals - I'm mostly interested in the acroporids - are carnivorous, catching and eating zooplankton.

You can have great coral growth in fish-less reef tanks.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

it would be wise not to compare open oceanic (reef) systems with the closed microcosm

it would be wise not to compare open oceanic (reef) systems with the closed microcosm

*staying on topic*

poop is poop. IME SPS corals don't eat fish poop- not even when it's recycled by other critters.

fish poop, worm poop and snail poop is a huge source of PO4 and
PO4 inhibits calcification in scleractinian corals if it's levels are significant- a condition that's much more likely to happen in an aquarium than on a healthy wild reef.

bottom line: fish poop in a reef aquarium should be avoided.

more poop won't make your corals more colorful or grow faster.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'd love to see any coral down one of these logs

 

[ryshark]

*staying on topic*

poop is poop. IME SPS corals don't eat fish poop- not even when it's recycled by other critters.

fish poop, worm poop and snail poop is a huge source of PO4 and
PO4 inhibits calcification in scleractinian corals if it's levels are significant- a condition that's much more likely to happen in an aquarium than on a healthy wild reef.

bottom line: fish poop in a reef aquarium should be avoided.

more poop won't make your corals more colorful or grow faster.

So do you feel the same goes for oysterfeast, rotifeast and all the other sps coral foods, that all they really do is add extra PO4? This is something I have wondered about as I have never seen my sps polyps actually eat anything.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

So do you feel the same goes for oysterfeast, rotifeast and all the other sps coral foods, that all they really do is add extra PO4?

no

 

[dudley moray]

I read I believe in an old Aquarium Fish Magazine that studies have shown that coral colonies inhabited by commensal damselfishes show higher growth rates than those without them. The higher growth rates were attributed to the greater nutrient levels present around the inhabited colonies. It has been several years since I read the article so I don't recall every detail of it, but I do seem to remember that the main point of it was the waste produced by the fish was being utilized by the corals.

i read that same article it was in FAMA i believe

 

[ryshark]

I'd love to see any coral down one of these logs

That would be a tough one to swallow, but put it through a powerhead (where most of my fish poo goes) and it would be crop dusted.

 

[ousnakebyte]

I thought JRF and I were on topic...

I'm also a huge fan of feeding artemia nauplii (newly-hatched brine) to corals after lights out. The more nutrients you add to you system, the more you will increase the PO4. But, good husbandry practices can help you maintain those levels.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I read the FAMA article being discussed.

It was referring to corals in the ocean and not fish poop but other wastes (urea).

The "logs" in the pic get dusted every night. They elicit no feeding response.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I thought JRF and I were on topic...

I'm also a huge fan of feeding artemia nauplii (newly-hatched brine) to corals after lights out. The more nutrients you add to you system, the more you will increase the PO4. But, good husbandry practices can help you maintain those levels.

no doubt good husbandry is necessary.

IME there's a big difference between feeding corals food and feeding them fish poop.

 

[MammothReefer]

Agreed, I think the difference is that some people are confusing the issue. Feeding your corals what they eat, and assuming they eat waste just because the byproduct of both actions result in a increase in nitrate/p04 (if you don't have a means to export it), are not the same.

OysterFeast, Cyclops, or any other foods that your corals can get a hold of, are not the same things as them getting a hold of processed fecal matter from your fish.

SPS/corals are nothing more then clusters of anemones with a single skeleton structure. They are not "Filter feeders" Your anemones don't benefit from fish poop. They eat silver sides, mysis, ect.. Why would your SPS corals be any different. They eat plankton.

So to sum it things up. The addition of anything in our tank that will break down and decompress can result increased levels of Nitrate,Nitrite, Ammonia, and P04. This has no bearing on whether or not SPS eat benefit from waste/fecal matter produced by our other tank inhabitants vs direct/indirect feeding of plankton or a substitute.

 

[LifeAquatic]

fish poo

fish poo

Agreed, I think the difference is that some people are confusing the issue. Feeding your corals what they eat, and assuming they eat waste just because the byproduct of both actions result in a increase in nitrate/p04 (if you don't have a means to export it), are not the same.

OysterFeast, Cyclops, or any other foods that your corals can get a hold of, are not the same things as them getting a hold of processed fecal matter from your fish.

SPS/corals are nothing more then clusters of anemones with a single skeleton structure. They are not "Filter feeders" Your anemones don't benefit from fish poop. They eat silver sides, mysis, ect.. Why would your SPS corals be any different. They eat plankton.

So to sum it things up. The addition of anything in our tank that will break down and decompress can result increased levels of Nitrate,Nitrite, Ammonia, and P04. This has no bearing on whether or not SPS eat benefit from waste/fecal matter produced by our other tank inhabitants vs direct/indirect feeding of plankton or a substitute.

I think its clear that SPS wont directly eat fish poop. Maybe some micro processed parts of the poop. In my experience a reef tank with no fish becomes very sterile over time causing poor water conditions. The water becomes to polished and nutrient free. This looks good to our eyes becasue the sand is bright white and there is no algae present but the corals are always pale in color. It seems important to have some waste floating through there to support the eco system in your tank. In contrary to what you are saying I think the right amount of "poo" is the key ingredient to an overall healthy tank. Not to much or to little. Its a balance.