"Saltwater Connections" owner gets fined 135,000.

[jimmy frag]

well Allmost, i thought i was having your back as i am in agreeance with you and couldnt come up with anything constructive to respond to KaFudafish,s total lack of acceptance of your opinion on this subject. We all like to have our say heard and sucks when others dont want to except it. anyways, cheers. you can all choose to click on the little red 'x' at the top right hand corner of your screen if you dont like whats in front of you. i do it all the time.

 

[M88A2]

Like nobody else here would like to go diving in Indonesia and come back with a bunch of livestock. He got fined because he didn't pay the ridiculous fees to obtain a license to do what he did.

http://www.fao.org/fishery/legalframework/nalo_indonesia/en

Correct me if Im wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the idea that "If you want something, then you should be able to go out and get it with little to no restriction" I think we, as a supposed intelligent species, should show some restraint with regards to our wants.

 

[syrinx]

We should follow laws-period. However intellect does not beget dominion, or responsibility. A chimp has no more responsibility for the care of his enviorment than the tree he lives in. The strangling fig that kills the decidious tree to live, is not immoral.

 

[jimmy frag]

Correct me if Im wrong, but it sounds to me like you support the idea that "If you want something, then you should be able to go out and get it with little to no restriction" I think we, as a supposed intelligent species, should show some restraint with regards to our wants.

isnt that the basis of which your country was built on and still stands today. as far as swc go,s. this guy took it to the extream and got cought the guy at your corner LFS does it every order for sps but on a smaller scale hiding the specimens under a differant name

 

[Fshhh]

With everything reefs have going against them and how little protection they are getting, I hate to see someone breaking the laws that are in place. I ordered a swc160 skimmer last month and it was a good product at a good price but I might have looked elsewhere if I had read this thread first.

 

[M88A2]

isnt that the basis of which your country was built on and still stands today. as far as swc go,s. this guy took it to the extream and got cought the guy at your corner LFS does it every order for sps but on a smaller scale hiding the specimens under a differant name

Wow that's a great attitude bro. I suppose I'll just look up the mistakes of Canada so i can blame something on you. BTW how's the air up there in your heavenly castle. Must be nice for you Sh** not to stink.

 

[M88A2]

We should follow laws-period. However intellect does not beget dominion, or responsibility. A chimp has no more responsibility for the care of his enviorment than the tree he lives in. The strangling fig that kills the decidious tree to live, is not immoral.

I see your point but the strangling fig lacks the conscientiousness as the chimp does not possess awareness on a grander scale. Also the damage of plants and animals are normally mitigated by natural factors where as human activity tends to only be bound by laws and ppl's decision to abide by them.

 

[pyton]

For me this is just a slap on the wrist for this guy! A simple fine and I bet they made payment arrangements. If he was a smart business man he would sell off his business to someone that respects the hobby.

 

[Reeferz412]

isnt that the basis of which your country was built on and still stands today. as far as swc go,s. this guy took it to the extream and got cought the guy at your corner LFS does it every order for sps but on a smaller scale hiding the specimens under a differant name

No, it applies to any scale and most people on this forum no matter how "extreme" it is would tell them it is wrong. "The basis of which your country ..." lol wow.

 

[jimmy frag]

No, it applies to any scale and most people on this forum no matter how "extreme" it is would tell them it is wrong. "The basis of which your country ..." lol wow.

Alex, i think you would be surprized to find out how many people strait out dont give a crap where their coral came from. other wise we all would be waiving a copy of the cites it came with. not to mention these south pacific reef zones wouldnt be in half the shape there in. do you have any idea how many families in and around Bali life,s depends on people like you and me and the guy from SWC. do you know what "unidentified scieractinian" is. just what it sounds like. a pile of crap, but this is what alot of your sps coral comes in from indo as. why...because there is a quota set that says these exporter can only export out so many pieces per year of each and every individual coral. how in the world is it that each and every corner LFS in my town alone has already exceded some of these quotas set out by the indo government, not even considering the shops down there. HMM. you ask. because its a game they play. and you buy their product. labled on paper as "unidentified scieractinian" my last order of acro came in this way. i am holding in my hand right now a copy of cites that says for the year of 2012, me (coralandfish.ca) has ordered 262/493 of Fungia Moluccensis. that means i have imported to Canada 262 pieces of brain coral of the 493 pieces aloud to be exported world wide from Indo. that leaves 231 pieces to be divided up between your country, eu, asia and the rest of the shops in my country. people...stop being so bloody ignorent and look around you, this sort of thing is all over. next time your at the LFS ask to see the copy of cites for the coral of which you wish to buy. if your an honest, moral sole you will be coming home with a cultered piece or empty handed. enough talk about monkeys in trees. Jimmy

 

[M88A2]

jimmy im not sure what your beef is, but "attacking" the country i live in for something yours does as well makes you sound "insert word here". Maybe I'm having trouble understanding what your trying to say. It sounds like you dislike my country cause some ppl operate as the Saltwater Connections owner did. Then you say that your country practices similar business and indicate that you are actually a part of the problem. But then you try to justify it by saying your helping the locals, who i suspect don't get a great share of the profets. Finally you are attacking people who dislike the breaking of limitations that are supposed to be implemented. Are you suggesting that because people break laws, that no one should have to follow them and other should feel stupid for say/thinking it's wrong? if any of what i have written has truth, I am ashamed that your part of this hobby.

 

[Allmost]

lol gotta relax guys

I think Jimmy is saying, all ppl in this BUSINESS [reefing] break the law. he provided example that 262/493 brain corals are in his position, so someone has to be breaking the law, cause in my 40 KM radius, there are more than 500 brain corals newly imported count in USA as well, we have double the limit indo government set up here in north america ! so most of the stores must be breaking the law, right ? there cant be any other explanation. .... so someone is breaking the law [or almost everyone in this business is breaking laws]

I agree with him with regards to locals, 500 corals, between 50 families will not garantee bread on their table at night ! so they catch more and sell more, illigally, to provide for their family !

lets leave politics out of this though ... we all know that there are alot of corruptions in politics, but this is not the place to discuss those. I dont think Jimmy was saying any country is better than the other, so no need to get that wrong ...

sooooooo whos gonna ask their LFS to see their cities permit tonight ?

 

[jimmy frag]

M88A2 .i am not saying your country is any differant than mine or any other. open your eyes and look around. some little guy runnining a little business gets busted for bringing in live rock (why he didnt get cites is beyond me other than limitations) and we tar and feather him. thats not enough, lets boycot his products and see if we can bankrupt him (like the fine he got wasnt bad enough). lets all go down to VA or FL and check out the stores down there, wait how about Toronto, oakville, burlington. ah crap. just like i said. they are all doing it in some sort of way. me to. im as guilty as that guy at SWC. i have enough sence to stop once i realize what the hell is going on. if you want to talk about ca. alk . mag. nitrate bla bla bla, im all ears as you may have something intelagent to add im sure. being ignorent is not a bad thing untill you open your mouth and pretend you know what the hell your talking about. AND THAT MY FRIEND IS JUSY A STATEMENT IN GENERAL. NOT DIRECTED AT YOU OR YOUR COUNTRY. its a very very croocked business. the day will come when a commity of some sort comes a knockin to these shops with a little piece of paper that say " we have the right by law to come into your store and ask you to provide all the paper work that states where each and every piece of coral and fish originated from. this isnt about figs and monkeys, you or me.

 

[M88A2]

gotta watch how you phrase things if your not trying to insult. your comment towards my initial posting sounded abrasive and def rubbed me and a couple others the wrong way. by no means am i saying censor yourself but its all in how you word it. anyway to get back on topic, I believe the consumers have a right to know if they are supporting practices that they do not agree with. And if they decide to no longer support such business that is their given right. I have never bought from this seller and never planed on doing so but i too would no longer support retailers for shady practices. If the individual's finances were to decline, it would be unfortunate as that is not the intended effect. The purpose would be to reduce damaging practices. And i would hold all LFS and online retailers to the same standards

 

[jimmy frag]

again, we all talk the talk. do something about it. you cannot boycot a little guy in Winipeg because the media and you want to set an example. its the hobby, its big buisiness here in north america, its a way of life in Indo. these guys get payed penies (which go a long way over there) and this is how they feed their families. and this is how our shops are able to get the goodies to stay afloat. again i challange you (in general) ask your shops for a copy of the cites for that smoking hot deep water acropora he wants to sell you. and ask why its says on the cites 50 pieces while he has 200 in his tanks. "gotta watch how you phrase things if your not trying to insult." not insult, i get angree because of ignorance. your corner LFS guy says "we use a guy, he,s a trans shipper, he,s bringing in big volume and supplies a bunch of shops. i just go to the airport and pick up my order. right, so lets all assume everything is leagal. nobodys playing the system here. pile of crap. my hat goes off to those companys that make sure each and every I is dotted. and some wonder why some charge so much.

 

[syrinx]

Your argument is sound JF- based on the information you have. However, you are lacking information in so many areas, that it is really impossible to educate you on the processes involved in shipping, inspection at source, and in our case usfw and customs inspections. That does not even begin to get into the ways invoices are handled. Nor does it enter into the fact that the scientific identification of stony corals is done by examination of the coralites of the skel. As I said- based on what you know, your argument is sound- but if you dig in deeper- you will see your kung fu is weak.

 

[jimmy frag]

syrinx. im not a newbie here. im telling the fax. i really dont give a CRAP weather you or anyone elce think my or some one elses argument is sound. you want me to dig deeper,for what.spew more crap on this ?. really. do you want a copy of my cites. do you or have you ever imported ? do you realy think the jack at customs has a clue what he is inspecting. iv been doing this a long time, i know what the heck im talking about. your going to educate me on the process. put up your paper work on your orders and i will point out to the good people how YOU are the same as buddy over at SWC.

 

[jimmy frag]

im totaly cool with opinions, but ????????????

 

[M88A2]

goosfraba bro. if your not here to help others understand or listen to the voice of others, your in the wrong place. best take your QQ elsewhere. And for the record. just cause ppl do wrong stuff all the time doesn't give everyone free pass to do so. Those that get caught must be punished, not to make an example, but because they violated regulation. If my LFS breaks such regulations, I can almost guarantee local support will die. it seems you almost encourage such behavior so you sir are the enemy. Personally i could care less if its big business. If its wrong and everyone does it, its still wrong. Morals and ethics are a funny thing huh? Not to say that im a Saint, but i don't do what i want just because everyone else is or because its fun/easy.

 

[jimmy frag]

goosfraba bro. if your not here to help others understand or listen to the voice of others, your in the wrong place. best take your QQ elsewhere. And for the record. just cause ppl do wrong stuff all the time doesn't give everyone free pass to do so. Those that get caught must be punished, not to make an example, but because they violated regulation. If my LFS breaks such regulations, I can almost guarantee local support will die. it seems you almost encourage such behavior so you sir are the enemy. Personally i could care less if its big business. If its wrong and everyone does it, its still wrong. Morals and ethics are a funny thing huh? Not to say that im a Saint, but i don't do what i want just because everyone else is or because its fun/easy.

im going to assume "goosfraba bro" what ever that means, is directed at me. ( jimmy is my name, i dont hide) so i will give a shot at answering your remarks. i am here to help others understand hence my replies and posts. i have listened to others and i have stated my stance and offered proff to back it up. i dont feel im in the wrong place unless this is the tar and feather catagory. QQ ? whats that. this free pass thing im not understanding, whats that about. i dont condone breaking local, provicial, federal or international laws. what gave you that inclination. two thumbs up to you frowning on your LFS breaking regulations. how and where is it you see me encourageing this kind of buisiness,im the one shining the light on the goings on. i see you dont care less about big business. morals and ethics ? where does that come in to this topic, we rape the ocean of its fish and coral illegally lol.