Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Brwestern]

Why not have the back wall built lower so that it can act as a natural weir and install an external overflow box?

Is this a glass or acrylic tank?

In general, you want to have as much linear overflow length as you can fit into the tank. Certainly there is a point of diminishing returns, but contrary to common belief and the calculator here at RC, the lower the the flow rate the longer the weir needs to be to provide sufficient surface skimming.

It's going to be a rimless glass.

I'm not looking to do anything too "out of the box" since it is my first tank. I found a tank build that has about what I'm looking to do, so hopefully I can get what I'm looking for.

Thanks for the advice and input.

 

[NEK-ap24]

Well Bean,
I have banged my head against the wall over and over.
I have called Lasco, Nibco, Grainger, American Granby, Ryan Herco Flow Solutions, I have talked to sales reps, receptionists, tech support, etc. They ALL say that they do not sell or make reducing street elbows. I checked the part numbers below and have been told that they are socket by socket or slip by slip.

P/N 406-168 1 x 1.25 SPIGOT x SOCKET
P/N 406-211 1 x 1.5 SPIGOT x SOCKET
P/N 406-249 1 x 2 SPIGOT x SOCKET

I was at a loss of where to go.

Has anyone successfully purchased a 1" spigot X 1.25 socket reducing STREET 90 recently? If so from where? and if possible a part number, please.

If you don't trust that I have called, give one the above names a call and ask if a 1" spigot x 1.25" reducing street elbow exists, they have all told me that they don't, and that the part number is for a socket x socket config.

I even went so far as ordering 10 what I hoped was the right thing from buyhardwareonline.com and now have $30.00 of a socket by socket reducing 90(nonstreet) that they won't contact me back about returns!

as I was posting this I called the manufacturers one more time to triple and in one case quadrupal check before posting that they don't exist! I spoke with a tech from Grainger and now I am wondering....

....is it possible that what you have is a 3/4" x 1.25" socket by socket elbow??? because the very helpful tech at Grainger mentioned that a 3/4" socket will actually fit into a 1" fitting.

That would make the pieces people are looking for p/n 406-167 (a 3/4" x 1.25" reducing 90)

What do you think?
thanks, I wish I could go a place and check for sure....but I live in the absolute middle of nowwhere, Hell it is an hour to WalMart!@$#%

 

[RocketSurgeon]

I'm not looking to do anything too "out of the box" since it is my first tank.

drill 3 holes and install a coast to coast weir. plumb your returns over the top.

 

[Names Brucey]

OK, I have asked questions relative to using acrylic for my coast to coast to incorporate Bean's method but now I am back to using glass. What thickness glass would i need for a internal overflow on a 6ft long tank. I was hoping 1/4" would be OK. Thanks.

 

[RocketSurgeon]

OK, I have asked questions relative to using acrylic for my coast to coast to incorporate Bean's method but now I am back to using glass. What thickness glass would i need for a internal overflow on a 6ft long tank. I was hoping 1/4" would be OK. Thanks.

I used 1/4" for a 48".

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18274570&postcount=2918

You could add a stiffner and not have worries.

 

[Names Brucey]

Sounds good. Thanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Has anyone successfully purchased a 1" spigot X 1.25 socket reducing STREET 90 recently? If so from where? and if possible a part number, please.

I am not sure what to tell you my friend... The fittings exist and are in use on my system.

I spoke with a tech from Grainger and now I am wondering....

....is it possible that what you have is a 3/4" x 1.25" socket by socket elbow??? because the very helpful tech at Grainger mentioned that a 3/4" socket will actually fit into a 1" fitting.

Respectfully, I know the difference between a 3/4" socket and a 1" spigot and am not using a 3/4" x 1.25" SOCKET x SOCKET 90.

As for "grainger" techs... they are not hardware experts they pretty much look at the same catalog as you see. Grainger and McMaster often have no real clue what they actually sell, as the manufacturers and suppliers change regularly.

The same goes for manufacturers. In MANY cases the person you are talking to has no real knowledge or hands on experience with the products their company manufactures or the applications they are used in, they just look at the same catalog as you. This is true for everything from PVC pipe to Electronics to light fixtures to shoes. Products are rarely designed "in house" and the sales and support staff are simply hired off the street to read from catalogs.

That would make the pieces people are looking for p/n 406-167 (a 3/4" x 1.25" reducing 90)

That will NOT work, while the OD may be close, it is not the same and will NOT seal properly, even if you remove the mold flash and mold marks.

What do you think?
thanks, I wish I could go a place and check for sure....but I live in the absolute middle of nowwhere...

I don't understand why you can't simply use the SOCKETxSOCKET reducing elbow? You can cut down the 1" side as far as you need to make a tight fit and then insert a 1" section of pipe (making your own street 90). Your project is stuck on principle, not function.

 

[afgun]

OK, I have asked questions relative to using acrylic for my coast to coast to incorporate Bean's method but now I am back to using glass. What thickness glass would i need for a internal overflow on a 6ft long tank. I was hoping 1/4" would be OK. Thanks.

And I am successfully using 1/4" for a 6' tank.

 

[Names Brucey]

And I am successfully using 1/4" for a 6' tank.

Good. Makes me feel better. If that is the case then I will do a small internal with 1/4" and do the external with 1/2". Thanks for the replies.

 

[SkyReef]

Connecting External Pump to Bean's System: Sealant v. Teflon Tape?

Connecting External Pump to Bean's System: Sealant v. Teflon Tape?

I'm wrapping it up on the first tank implementing Bean's overflow system. I'm connecting my return line to an Iwaki MD-40RT external pump via hard PVC. I know I can use Teflon tape to wrap around the male threads of the external pump's inlet and outlet, to help seal the adapters screwing onto them--which helps prevent leakage and salt creep at the pump.

Yet, I once read of another way. Is it bunk? I read that one could use silicone sealant, instead of Teflon tape for that purpose. Simply apply sealant to the threads, then screw on the adapters. The theory goes that the sealant holds up better, when considering that the pump vibrates a lot over time, because it is more flexible than Teflon tape. The theory also goes that the adapter can be manually removed from its silicone hold at a later time, if need be; so the silicone isn't "permanent," nor will it do any harm.

Is that true? Anyone ever heard of this or something like this? I want to finish the plumbing, but want to go about it the best way.

Sorry for the offbeat question.

Thanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Do not use either silicone sealant or teflon tape. Use PTFE (teflon) Paste. It will work MUCH better than the tape. You can get it at your local big box store.

 

[gweston]

+1 the paste is GREAT stuff. It can be messy to apply, but it seals far far far better than teflon tape.

 

[SkyReef]

Do not use either silicone sealant or teflon tape. Use PTFE (teflon) Paste. It will work MUCH better than the tape. You can get it at your local big box store.

+1 the paste is GREAT stuff. It can be messy to apply, but it seals far far far better than teflon tape.

Hey, Bean and GWeston. Thank you for your help.

I got the PTFE tube today, and my question is simply: will I be able to unscrew or otherwise disassemble the adapters from the pump's inlet and outlet after they are adhered with the PTFE paste--without harming or destroying the threads on the pump's inlet and outlet?

If not, does an inability to remove the adapters from the threads of the pump present a problem when cleaning or otherwise working with the pump?

Thanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

PTFE paste does not dry, so the parts can be removed as easily as they were installed.

 

[SkyReef]

PTFE paste does not dry, so the parts can be removed as easily as they were installed.

Awesome, Bean.

Thanks!

 

[SkyReef]

I have a two-chamber sump: front and back (it's not a side-to-side design because my sump and stand are skinny and deep). I know that Bean Animal's design calls for all 3 drains to terminate just below the water line, say about an inch below the water. No worries, my siphon and open lines terminate per Bean's instructions, in the front chamber (where the water table is stable), at a level between an inch and 2 inches below the waterline.

However, I have a question about the hopefully-never-used emergency drain standpipe. This is the pipe with the upturned elbow in the overflow box. Mine terminates in the rear chamber above the normal operating range of the water line in that rear chamber. I gather that the air-gap ordinarly existing in the emergency drain during normal (non-flooding) situations is perfectly okay. I say this because the emergency standpipe will not normally function to carry water, during normal operations. Hence, if the water rises in the overflow box, such that the upturned elbow and emergency drain line get activated, it will simply flood water down into the rear chamber of the sump. While this won't operate as a siphon initially, when the water table in the rear sump rises to about the height of the panel divider, it will become a siphon.

Yet, I suspect I might be wrong about this, and that I should terminate the emergency drain below the water level's normal operating range in the rear of the sump. Or, should I just terminate it below the water line in the front chamber, where the water level will always be stable? (I was trying to save room in the front chamber because I have a side tank that needs to send 3 more drainlines into this sump.) I suspect I am wrong because, if a flood situation occurs, I won't want to wait for the water to rise in the sump before kicking the emergency drain into siphon mode from open channel mode. The minute or so it takes to make that switchover into siphon mode might cause flooding in the tank above. I guess that was the whole point about having the emergency drain always covered with water; it creates an instant siphon in a flood situation, and a siphon can evacuate more water more quickly than an open channel drain.

Your help is greatly appreciated!

 

[TheFishMan65]

I actually thought it was supposed to be above the water level so you would hear the emergency drain spashing if it start to take water. It has been a whie since I read the tread though. As long as it can take the full flow if the others are blocked I can't imagine why it would be problem.

 

[BeanAnimal]

It will work just fine if it terminates above the water level. You don't need to worry about the splashing sounds alerting you... the sucking and gurgling in the overflow box will be a dead giveaway

 

[SkyReef]

I actually thought it was supposed to be above the water level so you would hear the emergency drain spashing if it start to take water. It has been a whie since I read the tread though. As long as it can take the full flow if the others are blocked I can't imagine why it would be problem.

Thanks, FishMan. Hopefully I won't ever have to hear that sound! :twitch:

 

[SkyReef]

It will work just fine if it terminates above the water level. You don't need to worry about the splashing sounds alerting you... the sucking and gurgling in the overflow box will be a dead giveaway

Thanks, Bean. Awesome! So I'll just carry on, then, and post pictures, when it's a wrap. And I'll listen closely for the dead-giveaway, sucking and gurgling sound, hoping I never encounter that.