Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Gorgok]

I have only skimmed through the posts and searched for pics (with google) on this (its a Long post) so sorry if i missed the answer.

Is this possible to do with opposing end overflows? Would that mean you need 6 pipes or what? I saw some drawing where 2 ends were tied to a single gate valve but i don't recall any clearly showing how many of which kind and where the pipes were.

 

[TheFishMan65]

Read over the last few pages. This was just discussed.

 

[Gorgok]

Thanks, found the answer in the pages you said.

Now the question really is how should i redesign the overflow of the 400 plan i have without using either long side... But that is a whole different topic.

 

[Jim Miller]

Although not a reefer I'm very intrigued by this system. I currently have a bottom drilled 90g planted tank with 1.5" bulkheads for drain and return. I was thinking that I could continue to use one of the bulkheads to service an inside-the-tank safety standpipe which is one of the Bean features. I could use a HOB OF box to place the full siphon and laminar flow pipes externally.

Taken together I think these three could properly implement the Bean system. Am I correct?

I'd have to forego my return bulkhead due to siphon issues. My reason for this approach is that I have a 3/4" rimless starphire 90g that I'm certainly not going to hack on.

Thanks

Jim

 

[ram1500]

Since stumbling across beans system six months ago and actually buulding it in my recent 72g bowfront tank, i will never build another tank with any other type of system. I cant see any reason to do it any other way.... Thanks bean...

Gus

 

[CreativeGuy]

Off Topic - RODI automation thread?

Bean, you have been working on a RODI automation set up on your web site. Do you also have a thread posting on RC for it?

 

[drdingo]

Great thread. Thank you Bean Animal for the design.


My question is what if you have a high flow sump? What size drain pipe should I use?

I currently have a 125 with the glass holes kit installed but I just bought a 250 and will be doing the BeanAnimal design so its more quite and cleaner. I don't like the look of all the equipment in the tank and would like to use the returns as all the flow for the tank (its FOWLR).

There are two mag 950s operating as the return pumps. What size pipes should I be using to ensure there is enough flow?

I went with the glass holes 1500 kit but can't run both pumps at full blast (because the overflow is only rated for 1500).

Thoughts?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I don't believe downsizing will cause a problem. I do have a question. Why the triangle shape for the drains? Why not a straight line? I wider box will have more leverage and be more likely to pop off. Now the pipes will be supported (right ?) and the box is the proper thickness and attached correctly (right again ?) so it probably is not a problem. Just curios why that lay out.

Thanks

Yes, Miracles said that the box would have to be supported by triangle braces to make this work.

As for the straight-line, their design guys came back with that also, they just thickened the bottom pane and line the holes up straight and made the box 6". Fortunately I had measurements and CAD drawings of 90s and tees and that's too tight to fit a double-90 and a tee-90, so I have to go buy the parts and verify it, I think 7.5" box will work with what they had in mind, and it will be easier to secure the standpipes.

And I think your flow is plenty for a 120. Sometimes I think people get carried away with moving water with the circulation pump. You don't need all that water running thru the sump. Make up your desired tank circulation with powerheads or a CL system. I installed two of the #3 Sicce Voyagers with their timing controller which alternates them, 1 minute each is how I have it running - works really nicely, great flow. Also assuming one installs a satisfactory skimmer for aeration and removal of suspended organic pollutants. The skimmate from my magus is disgusting. It's like pooh. Probably is!!

Previously, the system ran a Mag 12 @ 780 GPH, a Koralia 4 @ 1200 GPH and 2 K3s at 850/ea which totals up to 3700 GPH. I wish to maintain that flow rate without powerheads or a CLS. I am not a big fan of CLS.

What I decided to do is switch to a Reefflo external pump and max out the flow at 3000GPH or thereabouts, and do away with the downsizing the pipe idea and the powerheads. Except maybe a Vortech 'cause I want one.

The filtration is only an Algae Scrubber and I was going to run it off the overflow, but due to several factors related to the space under the tank, I decided to run that off it's own pump, external, and customize the 40B sump to make it all snazzy with baffles and other neato ideas I came up with.

With all that said, here's the next question:

With a 1.5" pipe for the main siphon, do I need to go to a 2" 2nd pipe and emergency standpipe, or am I good with 1.5" all around?

IIRC, the suggestion to go one size higher on the #2 and #3 pipe was in the case of using a 1" siphon, because the #2 pipe stood less chance of closing off and gurgling or turning into a partial siphon. With all of them 1.5" I don't think that's an issue, and the #2 would be able to handle the total 3000GPH no problem if #1 got 100% blocked.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Another quick question, I looked back a ways for an answer but couldn't find one.

How deep does an external overflow box really need to be?

I'm using 1.5" plumbing and holes in the bottom, so if I take a tee and a street elbow for the open standpipe and a 90 and a street elbow for the full siphon, and the notch in the end of the tank that feeds the overflow box is 1.5" down from the rim (rimless tank), then the 90 measures 3.25", 1.5" + 3.25" = 4.75", add an inch for distance from the inside bottom to the 90 (accounts for bulkhead and short pipe section) then I should be able to use a 6" deep (from top edge of tank) box. I don't see the need for anything like 8-12" deep, since Bean's original design had the intake for the siphon pretty just 1/4" or so above the bottom of the box.

 

[drock59]

Need Some Help

Need Some Help

I have a 30" cube that I am going to be setting up, but I have an issue with the bulkhead placements for this style of overflow.

As you can see, there are two 1.5" bulkheads in the middle of the back panel and two 1" bulkheads toward each edge of the back panel.

I am looking for input as to if this style of drain is even possible with the current set up and how to go about it. I would very much like to make an internal overflow to keep the current 30 x 30 x 30 dimensions of the tank.

Any recommendations appreciated. :spin1:

 

[SpacedCowboy]

Trying to tie them together with a pipe is not worth the effort. Using an "open channel" in each box may work, but if the flow through those open channels is that low to begin withm then are you really getting that much more surface skimming? 90% of the flow is through the siphon and therefore the box with the siphon will do 90% + 5% (open channel) if the surface skimming anyway.

If the siphon does 80% of the flow and the rest is split between the two open channels, then you still only get 10% of the flow going through the other open channel, still marginal (at best) gains.

(back from Europe )

Well, it may still be worth it. The surface-filtering efficiency of the weir is based on a combination of flow and linear length, and I'm using a high-flow sump strategy, so assuming I get ~3200gph at 5' head from my rated-4300 gph Reeflo Super Dart, that 10% will be ~320gph over another linear 22". That may in fact be comparable to what some people are seeing when using a lower-flow sump strategy.

Of course, I'm not sure if I'll get silent flow at 320 gph down a 1" drain, we'll have to see. I could always use the 1.5" as the drain if necessary.

[edit: DSB]

I'm getting mixed advice from the newbie forum on the DSB idea as well. Some people are recommending against it (stagnant water problem will be the same in the DSB, if it would be a problem without one), some people are saying they tried it and it worked for them. Just thought it would be worth a mention as a data-point.

Simon.

 

[SpacedCowboy]

Ok, how about this for a wild idea...

I effectively have one "spare" hole because I have 2 overflows with 2 holes in each. To increase the flow over the second wier (see above), I could use the remaining hole as the input to a closed loop. I'd have to pipe the closed-loop returns over the top of the back of the tank (thinking of using an oceans motions, and putting one return-pipe either side of each overflow - painted black they ought to be not-very-visible).

Using the 1" as the closed-loop input, and the 1.5" as the second open-drain, I ought to get

• Better flow over the second weir, because the closed loop will be draining water from the overflow as well as the open-drain
• Therefore better skimming because the surface water will still be going down the open drain

At the same time, it means I could use an OM 4-way, and some of those Revolutions devices to get some seriously non-linear flow in the tank. It's a bit more piping over the back, but I don't mind that...

Thoughts ?

Simon.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can use the input for a closed loop but you are still going to have the problem of the flow not being balanced between the two boxes, small variations may (or may not) effect the stability of the system. The point being that putting all of those design eggs in an untested basket is a big gamble. It may work just fine, but if it doesn't then you have a mess to re-work.

 

[dmastracchio]

I am having trouble with my system. Just recently I have moved the ball valve lower to change something up and i took out all the horizontal piping, to try to eliminate where air can be trapped, but for some reason my siphon is loud. I will flush it out and a good siphon will start, but eventually within a few hours, it gets louder.

Should I have the pipe going straight down? The way my tank is set up, I was unable to do a straight drop but if need be I can move it so it has it. There are two 45 degree elbows in the drop.

 

[Spaced Cowboy]

You can use the input for a closed loop but you are still going to have the problem of the flow not being balanced between the two boxes, small variations may (or may not) effect the stability of the system. The point being that putting all of those design eggs in an untested basket is a big gamble. It may work just fine, but if it doesn't then you have a mess to re-work.

I think I'll give it a go - if it is truly unstable, then I can just take the 1" pipe over the top of the overflow. Again, painted black it won't be that visible - it'd be right in the corner of the room, so not so obvious.

If it does work out, well, that'd be useful to know for anyone else wanting to try this sort of overflow on a standard reef-ready tank.

Simon.

 

[pandimus]

ok guys so i thought i had this puppy setup, but apparently my old pump was so loud that i did not notice the noise from my overflow. I have everything setup, I dont have any noise in my overflow, but the actual pipes are making a sloshing noise, ive tried adjusting it, but it does not seem to go away... Any advice?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think I'll give it a go - if it is truly unstable, then I can just take the 1" pipe over the top of the overflow. Again, painted black it won't be that visible - it'd be right in the corner of the room, so not so obvious.

If it does work out, well, that'd be useful to know for anyone else wanting to try this sort of overflow on a standard reef-ready tank.

Simon.

Simon,

Each tank will be different with regard to the overfall flow, plumbing configuration and water movement. What works on one tank may not (will not) work on another.

The goal behind this design is a simple "one-size-fits-all" method to achieve a silent and fail-safe overflow system. When the plan is deviated from, all bets are off. In the case of what you propose, the results will depend on to many variables to be able to predict the outcome before the the system is setup.

 

[lbaldrey]

Ive got the herbie overflow on my system and the water level in the overflow seems to vary when i turn the return off and then back on.

Also when the water level in the return chamber reduces due to evap the water level in the overflow seems to drop a bit.

What am I missing?

Thanks...

 

[BeanAnimal]

The water in your overflow is coupled to the water in your sump via the siphon standpipe, the level of one affects the level of the other. In effect, they can find equilibrium at more than one operating level. This design eliminates this problem by using the open channel as the level regulator. That is, the system is self adjusting over a very broad range of flows. Set and forget. Many folks have issues keeping the "herbie" set, as it needs adjustment from time to time due.

 

[SpacedCowboy]

[sigh] Well, maybe I'm pushing the design too far. I've been thinking a bit more about it, and there are large peninsula tanks with overflow weirs only at one end. That means they're operating with ~24" of weir, so maybe me using only one 22" overflow for skimming isn't so bad, especially since I'll be pushing a lot of water through that 22" overflow with my high-flow sump strategy.

I've just spent the day building a combined stand for a 225 gallon saltwater tank reservoir, a 50 gallon RO/DI reservoir, and a 50 gallon mixing reservoir. I'm feeling sore and not-too-keen on complicating things (read: making more work for myself) right now

Simon.