Barfly
Custom User Title
LOL, I was gonna be really impressed if you figured the drawing out.
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
LOL, I was gonna be really impressed if you figured the drawing out.
NO worries guys.....
NO worries guys.....
LOL....Guess I gotta AutoCAD this but Mr.Bean, your correct it's a HOB overflow. I will research further on this. Thanks bro. Perhaps I can get ur opinion next time once I have my 3D drawing.
In your design, u have noted it's flood free but aren't all overflow flood free once u have reached the equilibrium. It's true that ur return pipe inline with the pump would be a factor here but if you have ur return above ur tank water level, no siphon effect, you'll be fine. Another option is to place a one way valve, right? Please advice. Much respect to you...
NO worries guys.....
LOL....Guess I gotta AutoCAD this but Mr.Bean, your correct it's a HOB overflow. I will research further on this. Thanks bro. Perhaps I can get ur opinion next time once I have my 3D drawing.
In your design, u have noted it's flood free but aren't all overflow flood free once u have reached the equilibrium. It's true that ur return pipe inline with the pump would be a factor here but if you have ur return above ur tank water level, no siphon effect, you'll be fine. Another option is to place a one way valve, right? Please advice. Much respect to you...
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Doggie,
The overflow design in this thread works solely by the force of gravity and does not need primed to "self start". At no point in the system is water carried above the weir height or pool operating level. That is, when the pump starts, gravity is all that is required for the system to return water to the pump. The failure modes are limited to blockage and the design renders most of those modes fail-safe.
An HOB overflow, while relying on gravity, does not "self start" in all cases. It only "self starts" if it is primed. Water must be pulled ABOVE the weir height and/or pool operating level for the system to operate. That is, the driving force is "gravity" but the water must defy gravity (via the Bernoulli principle) for the system to operate properly. The failure modes are harder to deal with and the system is simply nowhere near as safe, let alone easy to engineer as "fail-safe". You simply can't cheat the physics, no matter how confident you are that you can.
Lastly, check valves (one way valves) are destined to fail and should never be relied upon to prevent system backflow from causing a flood.
If you wish to pursue your design or have more questions, they would be better suited to a dedicated thread, as we are starting to veer off topic here.
The overflow design in this thread works solely by the force of gravity and does not need primed to "self start". At no point in the system is water carried above the weir height or pool operating level. That is, when the pump starts, gravity is all that is required for the system to return water to the pump. The failure modes are limited to blockage and the design renders most of those modes fail-safe.
An HOB overflow, while relying on gravity, does not "self start" in all cases. It only "self starts" if it is primed. Water must be pulled ABOVE the weir height and/or pool operating level for the system to operate. That is, the driving force is "gravity" but the water must defy gravity (via the Bernoulli principle) for the system to operate properly. The failure modes are harder to deal with and the system is simply nowhere near as safe, let alone easy to engineer as "fail-safe". You simply can't cheat the physics, no matter how confident you are that you can.
Lastly, check valves (one way valves) are destined to fail and should never be relied upon to prevent system backflow from causing a flood.
If you wish to pursue your design or have more questions, they would be better suited to a dedicated thread, as we are starting to veer off topic here.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Nemo,
It would be in your best interest to read the entire project post at my site:
http://beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx
Once you have read the project page, you may want to browse through the contents of this thread, as most questions have been asked and answered dozens of times. If you still have questions, then post back here and we can help you get sorted out. Just within the last few pages, systems of your size have been discussed.
This will help you understand HOW the system works and what flow ranges it will handle without any modifications.
It would be in your best interest to read the entire project post at my site:
http://beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx
Once you have read the project page, you may want to browse through the contents of this thread, as most questions have been asked and answered dozens of times. If you still have questions, then post back here and we can help you get sorted out. Just within the last few pages, systems of your size have been discussed.
This will help you understand HOW the system works and what flow ranges it will handle without any modifications.
nemosworld
Active member
nemo, i pm'd you my number. i can help you design your system from the ground up. tank your size i would stick to the original design and not modify it in anyway. despite what others on our local thread has stated about drain sizes. though they were not talking about this system.
so basically 1.5 inch drains x 3 and 1 inch returns.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Bean, I asked this a while back but never got an answer.
If I am planning on running a 1.5" siphon and open standpipes and pushing 3000GPH down 36" to the sump water level, will a 1.5" emergency do or do I need a 2"?
If I am planning on running a 1.5" siphon and open standpipes and pushing 3000GPH down 36" to the sump water level, will a 1.5" emergency do or do I need a 2"?
Barfly
Custom User Title
1.5" will be more than adequate
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
JJ Ocean
New member
Bean,
I've read through the thread and your site - thanks a bunch. I'm designing my 315g tank now, so I have complete flexibility at the moment. My plan is to push 3,500gph return to the tank, but I want to spec the build to 4,000gph. I'll have about a 4' or 5' head on the siphon drain. If you were designing this yourself - how would you spec the drains?
Right now I'm spec'ing four 1.5" drains (1.5" bulkheads & 1.5" pipe). 1 siphon, 1 open channel and 2 emergency. My two areas of question are really around if 1 siphon is enough and is 2 emergency drains complete overkill. An alternate design I have has the 2 center drains as siphons that tee into a 2" pipe with a single regulating valve on the 2" pipe to the sump. That leaves me with 1 open channel & 1 emergency on the alternate design. Below is my current design.
Thanks,
John
I've read through the thread and your site - thanks a bunch. I'm designing my 315g tank now, so I have complete flexibility at the moment. My plan is to push 3,500gph return to the tank, but I want to spec the build to 4,000gph. I'll have about a 4' or 5' head on the siphon drain. If you were designing this yourself - how would you spec the drains?
Right now I'm spec'ing four 1.5" drains (1.5" bulkheads & 1.5" pipe). 1 siphon, 1 open channel and 2 emergency. My two areas of question are really around if 1 siphon is enough and is 2 emergency drains complete overkill. An alternate design I have has the 2 center drains as siphons that tee into a 2" pipe with a single regulating valve on the 2" pipe to the sump. That leaves me with 1 open channel & 1 emergency on the alternate design. Below is my current design.
Thanks,
John
JJ Ocean
New member
Thanks for the info. Still a little surprised that 1" handles 2,000gph (per Bean's site) and 1.5" does over 5,000gph. Seems I'm not a fluid dynamics guy, so that's why I asked. Thanks!
TheFishMan65
New member
Area of a circle is pi * radius squared so
1 inch pipe 3.14 * .5 * .5 = .785 square inches
1.5 inch pipe 3.14 * .75 * .75 = 1,766 square inches
so 2.25 time larger (200 * 2.25 = 4500) plus less resistance on a larger pipe
1 inch pipe 3.14 * .5 * .5 = .785 square inches
1.5 inch pipe 3.14 * .75 * .75 = 1,766 square inches
so 2.25 time larger (200 * 2.25 = 4500) plus less resistance on a larger pipe
crossleymarko
New member
confused
confused
so bean were does the plumbing go to, do all 3 join into 1 outlet or are they all seperate. i have looked and cant find anything. what is the full plumbing diagram please
thanks
confused
so bean were does the plumbing go to, do all 3 join into 1 outlet or are they all seperate. i have looked and cant find anything. what is the full plumbing diagram please
thanks
An observation and question. I noticed that when I run my mag 9.5 at full bore I get water level oscilation in the overflow upon start up. During normal stabil operation I can fully open the valve and the water stays stable, will not oscilate. Only when I turn it off for a water change or maintenance that I notice the system will not stabilize on start up. When I close return vavle about 1/4 closed, stabilizes quickly. the glass overflow has a total linear 24". The system is built exactly to spec and both open and syhphon channels end about 1" below the water line in the sump.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Gus
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Gus
Hello,
Thanks so much for the informative thread. Please forgive me if this was already answered. I found a couple references and think this will work but just wanted to run this by everyone.
From my understanding, dual overflows can be adapted to this but a single overflow is best. I am planning for about 2000 GPH through the overflow in a 270. Thinking of a single 30 x 6 overflow with 3 1.5" bulkheads. I believe the original design was with 1" bulkheads with 1.5" plumbing. The complicating factors are that I'm running a wavebox and mp60 for flow, which may change water height up to 2" at any given point. I think the BeanAnimal overflow's ability to handle different water levels and "self adapt", this should be okay but just wanted to make sure since the tank is still in the design phase.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks so much for the informative thread. Please forgive me if this was already answered. I found a couple references and think this will work but just wanted to run this by everyone.
From my understanding, dual overflows can be adapted to this but a single overflow is best. I am planning for about 2000 GPH through the overflow in a 270. Thinking of a single 30 x 6 overflow with 3 1.5" bulkheads. I believe the original design was with 1" bulkheads with 1.5" plumbing. The complicating factors are that I'm running a wavebox and mp60 for flow, which may change water height up to 2" at any given point. I think the BeanAnimal overflow's ability to handle different water levels and "self adapt", this should be okay but just wanted to make sure since the tank is still in the design phase.
Thanks in advance.
Similar threads
