Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just an idea for you, but I just made a tank with an internal box that has 2 parts so that you can remove the front cover for access to the overflow box. This one has an external box also, but the one similar to this I helped build for a buddy of mine who does not have an external box was a good solution for what you are wanting to do. He just siliconed on the from panel instead of using thumbscrews

It's made so you can flip it over and use the teeth up if you have fish

 

[uncleof6]

Just an idea for you, but I just made a tank with an internal box that has 2 parts so that you can remove the front cover for access to the overflow box. This one has an external box also, but the one similar to this I helped build for a buddy of mine who does not have an external box was a good solution for what you are wanting to do. He just siliconed on the from panel instead of using thumbscrews

It's made so you can flip it over and use the teeth up if you have fish

Teeth.....shame on you Floyd

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yeah, I know. That's what he wanted...it's a frag tank, but he said he might have fish someday, so it's there if he wants it. Plus I wanted to try building it!

 

[uncleof6]

Yeah, I know. That's what he wanted...it's a frag tank, but he said he might have fish someday, so it's there if he wants it. Plus I wanted to try building it!

Good solution though....

 

[lhemphill]

I have a question, one that may have been asked before but I could not find.

I have a 187g tank with a 90g sump. I want to do an external skimmer, although I also want to use Bean Animal's design. My question is how do I plumb this in order to route water from the tank to the skimmer/refuge/sump and keep the siphon?

My sump, left to right; Intake-Return-Refugium.

Thanks!

 

[pentrix2]

Today I just went to Home Depot to get the parts to build Bean's overflow system. I'm so excited about doing this for my new tank. Looks like I will be reading every message about this, i'm 1/3 done reading the original thread. some of the parts are so hard to get but I won't give up trying.

Pen

 

[mike78]

greetings everyone,

this is my first post in RC! I am a begginer from Hellas (you call it Greece), I knew nothing about aquariums until two months ago when I decided to get into this amazing hobby, well I am a spearfisher all my life though...

I designed a 130 gallon acrylic aquarium and I started reading as much as I can about overflows, since I am a mechanical engineer I always enjoy the DIY way instead of just buying one. anyway, to make a long story short, I read this thread from the start, I found it AMAZING and I constructed my overflow like BeAn's plans, the overflow chamber is outside the aquarium and I had to drill 30 small holes (coast-to-coast) to transfer the water to this chamber, the full siphon and the emergency tubes are 3/4" all the way while the open channel is 1,5", these diameters offer me a DEAD silent system that handles more than 1000gph easily!!! since this rate is too much for my curent needs, I tuned my return pumps to 600gph and I EASILY tuned the overflow with a simple ball valve to about 85% and it works fine for two weeks now.

I am still a begginer and I have just started with tropical freshwater (South American Biotope) but I joined RC to share this information with you and mostly to say:

THANK YOU BEAN ANIMAL!!! YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!! :thumbsup:

 

[bruce 1]

Do I need to put Ball valves on all 3 overflows? Would it be better to put gate valves? (would it be easier to adjust)? Can the ball valves be located in the sump area? It would make it easier to get to. Thank you and I am sure I have read all the answers to these but I can not find the answers now.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Mike... thank you for the kind words. Welcome to RC!

Bruce, only the siphon standpipe needs a valve. You can use a gate valve if you like. Placing it at the sump level will be just fine.

 

[SimonSKL]

Bean,
I wonder if you can offer some comment or suggestion to my plumbing configuration of my build. I have ordered a Marineland 125g with double corner-flo. Each corner-flo is drilled for two 1" bulkheads so all together four 1" bulkheads for the tank. The tank comes with 2 standard overflow kits (see picture below). Each kit contains one 1.5" drain pipe and one 1" return pipe.

Because I want the quietest drain system so I am not planning to use standard overflow kits as intended. Here is what I plan to do

In each cornerflo I will use one standard 1.5" drain pipe connects to 1" pipe to the sump. Each pipe will have a gate valve controlling the flow and achieving siphon before entering into the sump (green pipes). The right cornerflo will have a second 1.5" drain pipe slightly higher which will serve as the backup drain. This drain will have no flow restriction and goes straight to the sump (purple pipe).

The return line (red) will go to the left cornerflo. In summary, I will have two primary drain controlled with gate valves, one backup drain and one return. Do you see any problem with such configuration.

Is one 1" return line adequate or do I need two lines. I try not to have pipes outside as I plan to put a shadowbox behind the tank as background.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[uncleof6]

Using two 1" siphon lines, whose combined flow capability is GREATER than that of the "failsafe" 1" pipe--short circuits the failsafe. Realistically, however, since the 1" pipe at siphon will flow more than what you are probably going to send to the tank, that could be a moot point, but none-the-less.

The long horizontal run may cause starting issues, for the siphon on the left, with air getting trapped in the horizontal run. This is a design modification, and the results are not predictable. Also, balancing two siphons for equal flow, considering they are configured differently, could present a challenge also.

Perhaps it needs to be pointed out again, that THIS drain system (the BeanAnimal) incorporates a single siphon, a single open channel, and a single dry emergency, rather than two siphons, and a dry emergency. Since your design is a HUGE modification, it cannot be expected to perform as this system does, nor can it be expected to be failsafe. (see above)

There is a way to incorporate the BeanAnimal (note* Bean you need to come up with a shorter name for this system other than S&FOS BA perhaps for Bad A** ) system into your corner overflows. A single siphon and a single open channel in the right overflow (1" and 1.25" respectively, and a single 1" dry emergency in the left overflow, configured with a 45° down slope, to prevent starting issues.

 

[SimonSKL]

uncleof6, Thanks for the comments and suggestions. They all make sense. I modified my plan as you suggested.

Green - siphon line regulated by a gate valve
Purple - open channel
Blue - failsafe
Red - Return

Questions that I have:

1. I plan to use all 1.5" for the siphon, open channel, and failsafe lines within the corner-flo. Since the bulkhead is only 1", what size pipe should I use for each of the 3 lines below the bulkheads, 1.5" or 1"?

2. I know within the corner-flo, the lowest is the siphon, then the open chanel and the failsafe will be the tallest. How much height difference should be between the siphon and open channel, and between the open channel and failsafe. I plan to use the factory standard drain pipe as the siphon and add heights to the open channel and failsafe pipes.

Thanks!

 

[uncleof6]

uncleof6, Thanks for the comments and suggestions. They all make sense. I modified my plan as you suggested.

Green - siphon line regulated by a gate valve
Purple - open channel
Blue - failsafe
Red - Return

Questions that I have:

1. I plan to use all 1.5" for the siphon, open channel, and failsafe lines within the corner-flo. Since the bulkhead is only 1", what size pipe should I use for each of the 3 lines below the bulkheads, 1.5" or 1"?

To use the factory standpipes (which I don't recommend..for maintenance reasons for one) you would need to seal up the siphon line--no air in it. Bean used 1.25" elbows, IIRC, 1" bulkheads, and 1.5" "standpipes/drain lines) without an issue, however--since your flow rate is way below the values for 1.5" pipe, your valve is going to be closed a considerable amount, and that has caused some issues, at least anecdotal.


2. I know within the corner-flo, the lowest is the siphon, then the open chanel and the failsafe will be the tallest. How much height difference should be between the siphon and open channel, and between the open channel and failsafe. I plan to use the factory standard drain pipe as the siphon and add heights to the open channel and failsafe pipes.

The siphon and the open channel should be configured identically, in height, etc. (save the size difference i suggested in my prior post, and the air hole for the open channel)

The dry emergency difference in height would be the difference between a down turned and an upturned elbow.

Thanks!

The 45° downslope i mentioned should be over the entire length of the pipe, under the stand. The horizontal run can cause a starting issue. You can drop the siphon line straight down into the sump, if it will fit, but the jog will not be a problem.

 

[SimonSKL]

Uncleof6, a 45 degree downslope for the failsafe line is too steep and can't reach the sump. I think a 22.5 degree elbow will be perfect without any horizontal run.

The down elbow in the factory drain pipe (one with holes on each side and a airline tubing on top) can be removed and replaced with one without holes to make it air tight.

I will run all 1" pvc below the bulkheads for all drain line. Do you see any problem with that?

 

[uncleof6]

Uncleof6, a 45 degree downslope for the failsafe line is too steep and can't reach the sump. I think a 22.5 degree elbow will be perfect without any horizontal run.

Test it to be sure, before you depend on it, however, it will probably be fine.

The down elbow in the factory drain pipe (one with holes on each side and a airline tubing on top) can be removed and replaced with one without holes to make it air tight.

I will run all 1" pvc below the bulkheads for all drain line. Do you see any problem with that?

Only with the open channel, but the adjustment is such that the flow in the open channel is very low (just barely flowing,) testing will determine how well it works. The thing is, the system works per the original design, and modification results vary, but it is hard to test them all--to be able to predict how a particular modification will work.

 

[SimonSKL]

Thanks for your help, Uncleof6!

I have a better understanding of this and now hope this will work as planned.

 

[SimonSKL]

Sorry double post!

 

[joegoersch]

Air lock ???

Air lock ???

I have the basic beananimal style, 3 drain overflow. I did a big water change yesterday for which i turned off the return pump. Upon restarting the pump, water level rose and started draining down emergency standpipe. I put my hand by the output of the two other pipes and noted water only coming down the emergency standpipe and the open-channel standpipe. NOTHING WAS DRAINING THROUGH THE SIPHON STANDPIPE. NOT ONE DROP. I snaked up a 1/2 inch hose from the bottom (a siphon hose)--no blockage. Then when I pumped on the bulb on the end of the siphon hose water started coming down the siphon standpipe & everything worked as usual.

IT SEEMED LIKE AN "AIR LOCK" or something like that, but I don't understand how that could happen ? Any thoughts ? Theories ? Anyone have something like this happen ?:eek1:

 

[uncleof6]

I have the basic beananimal style, 3 drain overflow. I did a big water change yesterday for which i turned off the return pump. Upon restarting the pump, water level rose and started draining down emergency standpipe. I put my hand by the output of the two other pipes and noted water only coming down the emergency standpipe and the open-channel standpipe. NOTHING WAS DRAINING THROUGH THE SIPHON STANDPIPE. NOT ONE DROP. I snaked up a 1/2 inch hose from the bottom (a siphon hose)--no blockage. Then when I pumped on the bulb on the end of the siphon hose water started coming down the siphon standpipe & everything worked as usual.

IT SEEMED LIKE AN "AIR LOCK" or something like that, but I don't understand how that could happen ? Any thoughts ? Theories ? Anyone have something like this happen ?:eek1:

How deep is the siphon outlet in the sump?

 

[joegoersch]

depth of siphon

depth of siphon

How deep is the siphon outlet in the sump?

I have to double check, but I think about an inch...

I think I see where you are going, what is the maximum safe depth ?

I don't quite understand the physics (even though I went to MIT--never got fluid mechanics !!!) to see how depth would matter. Of course, pressure is higher as you go deeper, but the water would rise in the drain, so i don't see how depth would matter....

Thanks...

BTW--I didn't see any reason when I built this to include the overflow pipe, seems completely unnecessary. I didn't really check for watertightness on these connections either, seemed like it would never get used---WRONG. So if you are reading this and thinking about your new build, DO NOT SKIP THE THIRD PIPE....