Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[eagle9252]

well things have changed and now I can do all 3 with 1-1/2" should I do this on keep the siphon at the 1" pipe size? also can you turn the tee on an angle or does it have to be straight up?

The open channel should always be the largest diamter, followed by the emergency, as the emergency MUST be able to carry the full system flow. In most cases, the 1" will be sufficient to handle the full flow (under siphon) of the return pump. If it is NOT, then there really is no place for 1" in the system.

In the scenario where the system only has modest flow, the siphon valve may be closed significantly, and in this case the 1" emergency is likely enough. That said, it still makes more sense to dedicate the smaller standpipe to the siphon and the larger to the emergency.

Remember, this design was published as a ONE SIZE fits all system that can be used AS IS to accomodate just about ANY size tank. In that spirit, some of the parameters leave a lot of headroom on smaller systems.

A slight cant (lean) and/or a 45 bend or two in the OC will help to keep the water from dropping and splashing. Horizontal runs can create issues where the water backups and and causes pulsation and gurgling. It may or may not, but again (as we keep mentioning) the original plan does not account for such variables. When you introduce them, you will have to make adjustments to keep the system working as expected. For most folks, this means a noisy system and complaints that the design does not work...

 

[Firochromis]

It appears that you are stuck with the bulkhead sizes, so have no options. The siphon diameter is going to be rather limiting and will be very dependent on the total head height. I would not expect to get more than 500 GPH out of it in most real world situations...

Wow, sad news for me. I was expecting the double of it from the siphon line. Head height is slightly higher than 3' and it is a straight line, without any 45 or 90 elbows.

 

[stormrider27]

I am curious about the divider too. It certainly shouldn't hurt any.

I recently drilled my tank and am nearly ready to install the external box and internal weir. 125g 6' tank. 4' long weir. 2' long external box. The weir drains to the external box via two 1.5" holes. The pipes are 1.5" each. Standard bean design.

I wanted to put a 'slot' between the weir and external box rather than holes. But it was FAR easier to drill the holes. I didn't trust myself to cut a slit. I had some issues getting my local glass shop to drill a hole for me, even with me providing them the hole cutter. So I didn't even bother to ask again.

Oval holes: If the glass shop can cut them for you, will likely cost a good bit. Have you considered a number of smaller circular holes in series? If the glass shop can cut you a slit nearly the length of the external box though.. that'd be a great solution too.

Well I might have gotten lucky. I stopped by a glass shop a couple of miles from my house and the technician owns a 240 gal fresh water tank. Anyway, he thinks he can cut me two 6" long by 1-1/2" high ovals for $25-50 a piece. Now the question is what is the minimum safe height I can make the external box? I can make the length up to 5 feet and the width up around 4 inches give or take an inch. Any input will be appreciated?

PS my tank is 72" X 18" X 22" (LXWXH)

 

[noplay180]

Hello I have a 8 foot tank and i would like to do a bean animal on this tank. should I go c2c and how deep and how far of the wall should it be please help trying to finish this by the weekend thanks in advance.

 

[uncleof6]

Hello I have a 8 foot tank and i would like to do a bean animal on this tank. should I go c2c

The most efficient is going to be the C2C. Hands down. Place the plumbing at one end of the tank or the other, not in the middle (probably common sense.)

and how deep and how far of the wall should it be please help trying to finish this by the weekend thanks in advance.

This question comes up very often. It is a math problem. Measuring, addition and subtraction. Depends on where on the back panel the holes are drilled, and the plumbing size. Some dimensions are scattered throughout the thread. Best is to do the homework, rather than have one of us do the math for you.

General guidelines:

Holes must be 1 hole diameter or more down, from the top edge of the glass, to the edge of the hole, and to each other.

Top of the weir--1" down from the top edge of the glass (or more.) This places the water level out of sight with a rimmed tank.

Bottom of down turned elbows 3/4" + or - from the bottom of the overflow box.

Water line in the overflow will be ~ the middle to the top of the down turned elbow in normal operation.

Width (front to back) wide enough to get the elbows in, and turn them, and to work with a hand in the box.

 

[active]

uncleof6 said it best. those are the guidelines more or less that i used and it worked flawlessly. i measured about 4 times made a card board mock up of the overflow glass i was going to have made checked the measurements again and went with it. my glass guy cut me 2 48" x 3 1/2 pieces of glass and 2 small ones for the ends for 20 bucks. my son and i drilled the tank and i dont know who was more worried him or me but it went perfectly. i went almost coast to coast. i couldent fit the glass properly for a full coast to coast so i cut it 1 foot short on either side. i dont think that will make too much difference. and unless you are stretch armstrong and have 4 foot arms you'll want to drill your holes closer to one side or the other. my tank is 6 foot i can reach the last pipe to adjust with no problem but an 8 foot tank no way.
good luck with your build

 

[torino06]

i was wanting to get my glass ordered finally for the bean overflow but now i'm on the fence whether i want to use an external box or
not. if you peek at the pic below you can see where i have drilled my holes. they are rather low (6" from top of trim, 4" from bottom of trim). if i go the external box
route, i think i would need the box to be about 8" tall. this would
give the water about a 1" drop from the holes to the external box. for
length i would be around 20" (just outside the outer 2 holes). width i
was looking at 4" or so. does this sound right?????
i also saw on here that "yousmellsfishy" used a slanted internal weir. what are the thoughts on this? with a 2.5" width internal i could skip using an external box and make
the setup similar to bean's original design. at first i was all about the
external box and saving the space, but now i am having my doubts. one
main concern is the excess weight of an external box. 2nd is if all
the extra work is really worth it?
any help would be great!
thanks!

 

[uncleof6]

i was wanting to get my glass ordered finally for the bean overflow but now i'm on the fence whether i want to use an external box or
not. if you peek at the pic below you can see where i have drilled my holes. they are rather low (6" from top of trim, 4" from bottom of trim). if i go the external box
route, i think i would need the box to be about 8" tall. this would
give the water about a 1" drop from the holes to the external box. for
length i would be around 20" (just outside the outer 2 holes). width i
was looking at 4" or so. does this sound right?????
i also saw on here that "yousmellsfishy" used a slanted internal weir. what are the thoughts on this? with a 2.5" width internal i could skip using an external box and make
the setup similar to bean's original design. at first i was all about the
external box and saving the space, but now i am having my doubts. one
main concern is the excess weight of an external box. 2nd is if all
the extra work is really worth it?
any help would be great!
thanks!

Look for other similar posts concerning internal/external setups.

You don't really want the water dropping down from the holes, using the holes as the weirs. You want an internal weir, and an external box, with the water level in both at the horizontal centerline of the holes, without the bulkheads. The bulkheads would be in the floor of the external box.

I think your holes are a bit low, on the back panel, but that just makes a little longer drop from the water level in the tank.

If you do the internal box, with no external, the slanted weir will not work as you need some clearance for the elbows. 2.5" width, IMO, is not wide enough, to comfortably or effectively work in it. For an internal/external (with the plumbing outside the tank) that width would be fine.

Also the longer the "weir" the more efficient and quieter it will be.

 

[active]

this what mine looks like from the center. i didnt go coast to coast but close. this is rather easy to do and a proven system of filtering and protection.

 

[torino06]

Look for other similar posts concerning internal/external setups.

You don't really want the water dropping down from the holes, using the holes as the weirs. You want an internal weir, and an external box, with the water level in both at the horizontal centerline of the holes, without the bulkheads. The bulkheads would be in the floor of the external box.

I think your holes are a bit low, on the back panel, but that just makes a little longer drop from the water level in the tank.

If you do the internal box, with no external, the slanted weir will not work as you need some clearance for the elbows. 2.5" width, IMO, is not wide enough, to comfortably or effectively work in it. For an internal/external (with the plumbing outside the tank) that width would be fine.

Also the longer the "weir" the more efficient and quieter it will be.

sorry i wasnt too clear on everything. obviously i would use an internal weir with the external box, not just the holes. i wouldnt do a full c2c, but close to. sorry about the confusion.
unfortunately i was scared while drilling the holes so i used a guide and that was the highest i was allowed to go. now i know this makes the setup a bit more, ill say difficult, so this is why i wanted to confirm dims. being that the holes are so low and assuming i am doing an external box, would external box dims of 20x 4x 8-10 inches be ok? with an 8" height the center of the T and 90 (waterline) would be at the bottom of the 3 holes.

 

[active]

measure from the bottom of the frame of the tank down to your elbow and add 1/4 to 1/2 inch. then measure our how far the elbow sticks out of the bulkhead not pushed in all the way and there are the dimentions of your weir box. the water height when the system is off will be at the bottom of the tank rim. no need for a box on the back, just do the 3 pipe bean system and dont look back.

 

[uncleof6]

measure from the bottom of the frame of the tank down to your elbow and add 1/4 to 1/2 inch. then measure our how far the elbow sticks out of the bulkhead not pushed in all the way and there are the dimentions of your weir box. the water height when the system is off will be at the bottom of the tank rim. no need for a box on the back, just do the 3 pipe bean system and dont look back.

Agreed, unless there is a compelling reason add an external box. The concept derived from the desire for a smaller internal box, it is not a requirement to run the system.

 

[eagle9252]

Nowhere finished yet but here is a start. Due to the way the tank and the wall meet I had to comeoff with a 90* and then run the drains. I’m not finished yet but getting there. I was able to run all three 1-1/2 and the return will be 1” from a mag 9.5

 

[gweston]

In the past few days I built a 4' internal weir with an external box on a 6' 125 gallon tank. Not a C2C, but close. I left 1' on each end to allow for drilled returns. I gave myself two options. Larger internal weir with elbows plumbed in, or a space saving thinner weir with external box.

I'd have gone the no external box option if my tank was wider, such as with a 180+ tank. But as the 125 long is about 18" from front to back, real-estate for light penetration is a bit of a premium. So I went with the external box configuration. Ultimately it saved a couple inches off the internal weir dimensions.

I am waiting for the cure. I then paint the back black, move it onto the stand, and start the plumbing work.

Yeah. I've been 'working' on this darn thing for well over a year now. Nice to finally seeing things get off the ground.

 

[uncleof6]

Nowhere finished yet but here is a start. Due to the way the tank and the wall meet I had to comeoff with a 90* and then run the drains. I’m not finished yet but getting there. I was able to run all three 1-1/2 and the return will be 1” from a mag 9.5

Wish I could make the "buzzer" sound about now. So how about GONG!!

The Danner Mag 9.5 and larger require the use of 1.5" pipe minimum on the pump outlet if you want to get any flow out of it. This is per the Danner instructions. The difference is in the 300 gph range. Just covered this again, in another thread concerning the herbie (should still be on the front page)

May be just me, but I suspect this system setup will show some problems, not for certain, but the configurations are designed around the obstruction, rather than based on function. I understand the issue you have however. If the system starts, and stabilizes, you are most of the way there, however, I would thoroughly test all failure modes (save complete blockage of all three pipes) before trusting it.

 

[InDashMP3]

Hey all! I'm looking to build 150G (72x18 footprint) and need some quick assistance. I've have not been active on Reef Central in some time, in fact, my original user name Joseph Fiocca I cannot access; the system that resets passwords on Reef Central is not cooperating! I'm sorry that I've had to re-register (maybe a mod can help me out here!). Anyway, I have a guy that's willing to drill my tank this weekend. I am torn between 1" and 1.5" bulkheads for the overflow. I'm planning on an internal c2c, but not real sure about dimensions. I currently have a PanWorld 50PX pump (less than 900GPH), but considering another pump soon (not sure which one). With that said, I was thinking that I should go with 1.5" bulkheads planning for the future, but really, how much flow do I need?? I figure if the 1" bulkheads can handle 2000GPH, I should have no problem sizing a pump appropriately. Assuming I go with 1" bulkheads, how far down from the lower edge of the top trim should the holes be at center? I was thinking that I would center the three pipes on the back, but earlier in this thread, someone said they should "obviously" be on one side?? It's not too obvious to me! Also, I'm thinking the top of the weir need only be about 1/4" from the top of the trim (or the lower??) Thanks everyone! Have always loved RC, and looking forward to getting active again!!

 

[don-n-sa]

BeanAnimal
First - Thank you for the work you have put into this. I am in the process of setting up a 150g and I am going with your design for the standpipes.

I do have a few questions.
The caps on your orginal set up are threaded. Is that neccessary? I could only find slip at my local HD / Lowes. Would they ever have to be removed? Before I glue them I thought I would ask you.
Does the cap on the Open Channel standpipe need to be tapped like you did? What if I drilled a hole and just put the airline directly in it? Also, is the loop on the airline that is run over the calflo necessary or could it just be run straight up a few inches?

Thanks in advance.

 

[uncleof6]

HD and Lowes, usually always have the threaded adapters and caps. Odd you could not find them. Maybe a local thing, not sure. The removable caps are to provide access for cleaning, which really should be done periodically, and make it easier to clear a blockage, should one occur. However with slip caps, you are going to have to glue them, or they will leak air.

 

[active]

all of the fittings in my pictures came from lowes. the threaded adapters weren't near the regular fittings and the sani-t's were in another section too. i dont understand there idea behind there stocking the items in odd locations at all. you dont want to glue the caps as they may need to be taken off one day to clean as uncleof6 stated.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Don,

In addition to what has been posted above: The airline in the OC must be sealed and must be clamped or held into the oveflow box if it is to act as the fail-safe. There is a fairly detailed description of the function in the design plans