Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[reeflo/sequence]

the 'friction loss" is a function of the length, the diameter and the desired flow
the brief 1/2" won't restrict flow very much (too short)..at 1000gph the 1" will add 1 foot of lift for every 8' of length..at 1500gph this jumps top 1 foot of lift for every 3' of pipe..it moves geometrically with increased flow..see linkhttp://www.reeflopumps.com/images/tips.pdf

 

[jdcook72]

the 'friction loss" is a function of the length, the diameter and the desired flow
the brief 1/2" won't restrict flow very much (too short)..at 1000gph the 1" will add 1 foot of lift for every 8' of length..at 1500gph this jumps top 1 foot of lift for every 3' of pipe..it moves geometrically with increased flow..see linkhttp://www.reeflopumps.com/images/tips.pdf

That is good to know. I'm planning 400-500 GPH turnover in a 30 gallon tank and was planing on using 1" for the drains X3 (Bean) and 1/2" for the returns X2. From what you're saying, I should be able to use 1/2" bulkheads for all locations an not worry about effects on flow? This would be good because I'll only need one hole saw indtead of two and I will have a little more flixability with my placement for the drains since the bulkheads will be a little smaller.

Thanks.

 

[jwilson]

the 'friction loss" is a function of the length, the diameter and the desired flow
the brief 1/2" won't restrict flow very much (too short)..at 1000gph the 1" will add 1 foot of lift for every 8' of length..at 1500gph this jumps top 1 foot of lift for every 3' of pipe..it moves geometrically with increased flow..see linkhttp://www.reeflopumps.com/images/tips.pdf

No sure that's exactly correct. In addition to the friction loss there is the loss due to the sudden contraction and the sudden expansion. It depends on the ratio of the diameters to the fourth power. So with 0.5" and 0.75" you have roughly speaking about 10 extra feet of friction loss, I'm not saying it's as bad as all 1/2" pipe, but it's definitely no where near negligible.

16 GPM (1,000 GPH/60) isn't even in the table for pressure drop of 1/2" steel pipe. At 8 GPM the loss is 28 psi/100 ft and at 10 GPM the loss in steel pipe is 42 psi/100 ft so even if you made it 1 psi per foot (and it's more than that) you have 10 psi of loss, which is more than 5 feet of head.

It's been a really, really long time since I did anything with these formulas so maybe I'm wrong but I'd be interested in knowing where.

See attached info from Cranes

 

[ohioreef71]

Well after months of reading and planning I finally built my semi internal coast to coast overflow. I am preparing to drill the 125g tank within the next few weeks. I am wondering what is the best way to silicone the box to the tank. I may silicone inside the box to be cleaner it just may be a pain to do. I also wonder if just doing silicone on one surface of the box will suffice. Should I silicone inside and outside the box to assure the box will stay? My overflow is 48"x3"x4" in a standard 125g 72" tank

 

[rrasco]

I used 2x4s to support the overflow while installed it and siliconed both inside and out. Removing the 2x4s was a bit of a pain though, if you can lay the tank on it's back, I would do that. I basically siliconed every joint I could just to be safe. I would also use RTV silicone if you have the option.

 

[dunk373]

i am looking to do this also and will build an overflow box and drill the overflow box to match the tank holes and use the bulkheads to secure the box to the tank. the tank is full of stuff and a huge acro coral thats at the top so it will be out of the water while i drill. I'm thinking of laying a towel over the coral and pump water over it to keep it wet. if i have to move it i can but am afraid it will break loose. I have a question for REEFLO I was going to get the hybrid barracuda hammerhead, can the motor be run on 240v or is it just 120v? My set up will be in the basement I am thinking of using a t for the lines so I only have to drill 2 holes in the floor could this work or must all 3 lines be separate?

 

[jeffreylam1132]

So, if I only have two holes to work with, what would be my best option? One elbow facing down and one facing up or both facing down inside the overflow box?

 

[uncleof6]

I know how the Herbie Method work when the tank is drill on the bottom with the internal overlfow. But how does it work when your tank is drilled on the side?

The same, unless you do not have an internal overflow. Lacking an "overflow" you will get no surface skimming.

So, if I only have two holes to work with, what would be my best option? One elbow facing down and one facing up or both facing down inside the overflow box?

One up, one down. Use pipe to place them relative to the water level. Where the bulkheads are, is relatively unimportant.

 

[Adamc1303]

I want to do a Bean Animal over flow system. I have a few questions.

The dimensions of the tank are 96" long x 28" high x 30" deep. I want to have an external overflow box so the back wall of my tank is one flat piece of glass. Is there a specific size need the external overl fow box to be? Using a traditional durso standpipe system I would go with 2 1.25" drains and 2 1" returns. Does this mean I need 6 drains with the Bean Animal type drain? Does it make a difference if I do one long overflow box or 2 totally separate ones? I will have all the filtration in my basement. Can I have all 3 drains connect to one larger line that will go to my basement. I realize that it wouldn’t work as a failsafe if that line ever clogged but I have never heard of such an issue. Drain issues are usually within the stand pipe from my understanding. If I can connect 3 lines into one it will help me not run6 lines to my basement and rather just have lines. Last question, are there Bean Animal overflow kits available for sale anywhere, or is there anyone that makes them and sells them?


Thanks in advance!

Adam

 

[dunk373]

I want to do a Bean Animal over flow system. I have a few questions.

The dimensions of the tank are 96" long x 28" high x 30" deep. I want to have an external overflow box so the back wall of my tank is one flat piece of glass. Is there a specific size need the external overl fow box to be? Using a traditional durso standpipe system I would go with 2 1.25" drains and 2 1" returns. Does this mean I need 6 drains with the Bean Animal type drain? Does it make a difference if I do one long overflow box or 2 totally separate ones? I will have all the filtration in my basement. Can I have all 3 drains connect to one larger line that will go to my basement. I realize that it wouldn't work as a failsafe if that line ever clogged but I have never heard of such an issue. Drain issues are usually within the stand pipe from my understanding. If I can connect 3 lines into one it will help me not run6 lines to my basement and rather just have lines. Last question, are there Bean Animal overflow kits available for sale anywhere, or is there anyone that makes them and sells them?


Thanks in advance!

Adam

I am in the exact same boat as you but i have my tank full of livestock which makes it harder. From what i know I am learning here too the bean overflow needs all piping separate. You put the gate valve in the siphon pipe in the basement close to the sump. A single pipe would work but would be noisy IMO. the siphon valve would be installed by the DT but before the pipes are joined. From my thought for this to work you will need that pipe to be pretty big and this allows water and air to mix= noise and I do not want noise.

 

[jdcook72]

As I understand it...
Bean animal has three function specific channels by design: full siphon, open air and emergency. The capacity is determined by pipe size, not number of pipes. If you wanted increased capacity beyond what would be available through a practical size pipe, I believe you could have multiple full siphon channels, all tuned for a combined capacity of just below full capacity with the remainder going through a single open air channel. I think the likelihood of this would be low though as a 1.25" full siphon can drain about 3000 GPH. You mention you're dropping to a sump in the basement so I would guess you could drain closer to 5000 GPH with the additional head head height.

Because the full siphon needs to coordinate with the open channel, and for simplicity of setup, all channels should be in the same overflow. I think that it would be possible to have them separate overflows as long as the level of the open channel in the tank is above that of the full siphon and likewise with the emergency channel relative to the open channel. I'm not positive on this though.

If all three channels fed to a common pipe, air would enter the line through the open channel and the siphon would be broken. You could combine the open channel and the emergency channel and functionality remain unchanged under normal conditions, for the most part. If there was an issue with the full siphon channel, the open air channel would not be able to fail over to full siphon mode as air could still enter via the emergency channel after the open channel's vent became submerged. Likewise, the emergency channel may not be able to operate as a full siphon for a reciprocal reason. This could be an issue when the capacity of the open channel(s) cannot meet the requirements of the system that is normally provided by the now impaired siphon resulting in an overflow.

Assuming your tank has two overflow boxes, each plumbed for a 1.25" and 1" line, I would recommend the full siphon (1") and open (1.25) channels in one with the emergency (1") and return (1.25" split with a wye) in the other.

I don't know if anyone offers a generic Bean animal kit though I think there are kits available for the Durso which is 1/3 the setup with the remainder basically being open pipes, one with a valve, to act as full siphons. I would think there are any number of people on the board that would be happy to help you through any planning and steps for your specific setup.

 

[jeffreylam1132]

The same, unless you do not have an internal overflow. Lacking an "overflow" you will get no surface skimming.



One up, one down. Use pipe to place them relative to the water level. Where the bulkheads are, is relatively unimportant.

Can you please explain to me what you mean by "use pipe to place them relative to the water level". Sorry, I just want a better understanding before I start plumbing this.

 

[jdcook72]

Can you please explain to me what you mean by "use pipe to place them relative to the water level". Sorry, I just want a better understanding before I start plumbing this.

I think uncleof6 is referring to the stand pipe to which the elbows are attached (in a reef ready tank with the holes at the bottom). Cut them to the length necessary to have the elbows end up at the desired level in the tank. For a tank drilled on the side, assuming near the top, I would think you would have enough range of adjustment available from rotating the elbows.

uncleof6, if I'm way off base, sorry. I'm just awake right now.

 

[gone_fishing]

Help with start up issue.

I had my tank made with an internal C2C that runs the full length of my 72" tank. I have three 1 1/2" bulkheads with 1 1/2" plumbing going down into my sump, under the tank. When it is running, it requires no adjustments, runs perfect.

I got a controller and was hoping to shut off the return pump for feeding, food goes right over and sticks to the full siphon drain (I have grooves in it to keep any potential fish/inverts that might get into C2C safe). Then I have to scrape it to keep it clean. When the pump turns back on, the water goes into the open drain and siphon, but even after an hour the siphon does not take over. I notice after about 10 minutes if I turn the ball valve closed, let the siphon drain fill, then open it all the way to drop the level in the overflow, I can then get the water to slow down in the open channel and get my siphon.

I have both ending about 1/2 to 1" under the water in the sump, when my tank shuts down that is higher as the water level in the sump goes up. My open channel was drilled 1/2" higher then the siphon and emergency drains. I do have about 12" of horizontal run on the siphon line before a 90deg drop into the sump. The open channel has only a few inches of horizontal run before dropping down.

Any help would be great!

 

[dunk373]

sounds like not enough return water or the open channel's too high to start a siphon on 1.5" it takes a lot of water flow. maybe make the open channel a bit higher or pump more water into it faster to see if it works.

 

[autodave]

It is also best to avoid horizontal runs and 90's

 

[roczero]

How do you keep the snails out of the siphon drain? My system has been up for a couple months now and works great except for snails getting sucked up by the siphon every day and getting stuck. Then i have to shut down the pumps, take apart and clean it out. A lot of the time this happens more than once a day. The tank is guaranteed to be making gurgling noises when I get home from work everyday. My elbows are set about a half inch off of the bottom on the box like specified but any snail that climbs over the edge of the box gets pulled into the siphon.

 

[gone_fishing]

How do you keep the snails out of the siphon drain? My system has been up for a couple months now and works great except for snails getting sucked up by the siphon every day and getting stuck. Then i have to shut down the pumps, take apart and clean it out. A lot of the time this happens more than once a day. The tank is guaranteed to be making gurgling noises when I get home from work everyday. My elbows are set about a half inch off of the bottom on the box like specified but any snail that climbs over the edge of the box gets pulled into the siphon.

I have slots in the PVC, no snails or fish in siphon. Just have to clean nori from the slots every once in a while. I have that PVC touch the bottom of the c2c.

 

[gone_fishing]

sounds like not enough return water or the open channel's too high to start a siphon on 1.5" it takes a lot of water flow. maybe make the open channel a bit higher or pump more water into it faster to see if it works.

How would I move the open channel higher, do you mean in the sump?

It is also best to avoid horizontal runs and 90's

So if I can remove the 12" horizontal run, or at least make it the same length as the open channel, maybe it will do the trick? No way to avoid 90 degree, I tried 45 but it just wouldn't fit. I'll have to get in there and try to eliminate the run.

 

[jdcook72]

How would I move the open channel higher, do you mean in the sump?


So if I can remove the 12" horizontal run, or at least make it the same length as the open channel, maybe it will do the trick? No way to avoid 90 degree, I tried 45 but it just wouldn't fit. I'll have to get in there and try to eliminate the run.

Why wouldn't the 45 fit, space issue or getting everything to align? Since it's only a 12" horizontal run, I would recomend using a section of flexable PVC and have it angle down to the veriticle piece after the 90 to reduce the horizontal length.