Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

Hi everyone.

This is my first post on reefcentral... I am setting up 50 gallon DT with about 25 ish gallons in the sump and want something like 450 - 500 gph. I have read (most) of the posts here (there are quite a few!) but still have a few questions... I hope you can help!

I am planning on a c2c weir with the 3 drainlines made from 1" piping. The sump is about 7' away and about 4' below the display tank (it's in the garage).

Do I have to use tees at the back of the tank, or can I go straight to90 degree elbows? I understand about taking end caps off to be able to clean, but am struggling to find screwthreaded Ts and endcaps (I'm in the UK...). I take it the siphon will still work OK with just elbows. Won't it?

Just elbows should work fine. You don't need threaded T's however. This adapter is needed. But if you cannot get this adapter and/or threaded caps, it is moot.

A few people have said that I should be using 1.25" piping to get the flow rate I want, but I am assuming that 1" will be fine for 500gph under full siphon.

For 500 gph, 1" will do the job, especially with a 4' drop.* It is a good idea to use 1.25" for the open channel, less chance of noise.

Finally (for now...) will the siphon start OK with this long drain line to the sump?

Thanks for your help with this!

Noel

*It should work, as long as there are no horizontal runs in the line, and friction loss will take a bigger bite due to the length of the line. Horizontal runs can cause the drain line to air lock, and not form a siphon. Considering the rather low flow rate, it will take some time to purge the air out of the line. Make sure the outlets are not more than 1" (or less) below the water level in the sump.

 

[budster.stig1]

Hi everyone.

This is my first post on reefcentral... I am setting up 50 gallon DT with about 25 ish gallons in the sump and want something like 450 - 500 gph. I have read (most) of the posts here (there are quite a few!) but still have a few questions... I hope you can help!

I am planning on a c2c weir with the 3 drainlines made from 1" piping. The sump is about 7' away and about 4' below the display tank (it's in the garage).

Do I have to use tees at the back of the tank, or can I go straight to90 degree elbows? I understand about taking end caps off to be able to clean, but am struggling to find screwthreaded Ts and endcaps (I'm in the UK...). I take it the siphon will still work OK with just elbows. Won't it?

A few people have said that I should be using 1.25" piping to get the flow rate I want, but I am assuming that 1" will be fine for 500gph under full siphon.

Finally (for now...) will the siphon start OK with this long drain line to the sump?

Thanks for your help with this!

Noel

Elbows work fine, see mine with elbows on attached picture!......Budster:bum:

 

[racundra]

Cheers guys!

I am stuck with about 2 feet or so of horizontal pipe, as it passes through the garage wall. Fingers crossed it will be ok...

I guessed that a lowish flow would be a bit of an issue with starting the siphon. I am having a DSB in the sump, so don't want to go mad on the flow. I read that x10 was about right for a DSB, hence the 500gph.

Thanks again... (I will probably be back for more later..!)

 

[dairelee]

Thank you for the suggestions. Indeed....I did cut the main syphon pipe to within 2 inches of the water level and it worked!! This overflow system really is amazing - so quiet and no worries of flooding! Thank you!!

 

[uncleof6]

Thank you for the suggestions. Indeed....I did cut the main syphon pipe to within 2 inches of the water level and it worked!! This overflow system really is amazing - so quiet and no worries of flooding! Thank you!!

The outlets of the drain lines should not be any more than 1" deep in the sump. A basic design criteria.

 

[uncleof6]

Cheers guys!

I am stuck with about 2 feet or so of horizontal pipe, as it passes through the garage wall. Fingers crossed it will be ok...

I don't think crossing one's fingers is a very good plan. Nothing worse than doing things two, perhaps three times, when the first time can be gold. The drain lines really need to be kept angled down, 45° or more, being best. I don't see being stuck with the 2 feet of horizontal pipe, unless the wall is masonry, and then I would probably find someplace else for the sump: like under the tank.

I guessed that a lowish flow would be a bit of an issue with starting the siphon. I am having a DSB in the sump, so don't want to go mad on the flow. I read that x10 was about right for a DSB, hence the 500gph.

This thread is about drain lines, not DSBs, but they are rather strict, and that makes the sump not a likely place to attempt a DSB. 10x no, SPS flow rates yes. There are better ways to do a remote DSB.

Thanks again... (I will probably be back for more later..!)

 

[racundra]

Ouch! OK. Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I am pretty much stuck with the sump going where it is and have to have that short horizontal run too. I will have to get the drawing board back out... It sounds like a bean overflow may not work for me. You are, of course, right - fingers crossed is no way to go!

Cheers

 

[uncleof6]

Ouch! OK. Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I am pretty much stuck with the sump going where it is and have to have that short horizontal run too. I will have to get the drawing board back out... It sounds like a bean overflow may not work for me. You are, of course, right - fingers crossed is no way to go!

Cheers

Ummm I would keep the drawing board put away. What would affect bean's system would be worse with any other drain system. The only other option is an air/water mix system, and that will give you fits if the weather is not just right...... what I said about the angles etc, goes double for air/water mix--at a much lower flow rate.

 

[racundra]

Haha! OK, uncleof6! I have done a quick remeasure and think I might be able to limit the horizontal run to about a foot if I put the drains at one end of the display tank rather than in the middle. I guess that won't make much difference. I will be using 45 degree elbows rather than 90s, so that will hopefully minimise adverse effects.

Thanks for your help - I appreciate it!

 

[Sacohen]

All of the variations of this setup have the gate Valve and Union Connections behind the tank.

I don't have a lot of space behind my tank, I may only have enough room for the 1 1/2" T connector.

Is there any reason why the gates and unions couldn't go below the tank under the stand?

Thanks.

 

[jason2459]

All of the variations of this setup have the gate Valve and Union Connections behind the tank.

I don't have a lot of space behind my tank, I may only have enough room for the 1 1/2" T connector.

Is there any reason why the gates and unions couldn't go below the tank under the stand?

Thanks.

I believe it's just a convenient location making it a lot easier to do the initial setup. I have all mine down by the sump as I have mine in my basement and would be loud if I didn't.

 

[uncleof6]

The locations of the valves are only an issue with long drops, as jason indicated. Whatever works for you is good. You only need one valve though: on the siphon line. I would avoid unions if possible, unless you plan on pulling your plumbing apart.

 

[Sacohen]

Thanks for the info.
My drops are only 2-2 1/2 feet.
You never plan on pulling your plumbing apart, that's why I usually put them in as a precautionary measure.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks for the info.
My drops are only 2-2 1/2 feet.
You never plan on pulling your plumbing apart, that's why I usually put them in as a precautionary measure.

I see them as a leak risk. They also add to the friction loss in the drain... just some thoughts. Some like um, some don't.

 

[meegwell]

Thanks for the info.
My drops are only 2-2 1/2 feet.
You never plan on pulling your plumbing apart, that's why I usually put them in as a precautionary measure.

I never plan on it either. When I run into trouble, I jsut cut and rebuild. Its not terribly expensive.

 

[meegwell]

I know this has been discussed but I cant find it. Do I need to cement the elbows in my overflow? I recall somehwere mentioned that i dont, and if I get some air suction to apply something. Anyone? I'll be doing my first water fill and test tonight...so excited!

 

[jepuskar]

This thread is EPIC...I mean EPIC...and I don't even come from the EPIC talking generation. I remember viewing this 3 years ago.

Herbie/Bean/Sprung....all common household names.

J

 

[GROSSR]

As just posted, plan as much as possible. I assemble my sump from the front of the stand and never from the back. Wow that has saved me a bunch of grief. Unions do reduce the size of the pipe, but the second pipe picks up the extra flow. I have 1 inch pipes and I have the main pipe closed over 50%. The second pipe picks up the extra and is dead silent.

In my mind who cares it is closed 50% as long as water is flowing correctly into the sump and it is SILENT (ahhh golden silence) it is not that big a deal.

If you are pushing to much water into the tank, it might be an issue, then you would have a valve on the output side of the pump to drop the flow down.

Meegwell : I did't cement mine in. I used a bulkhead with threads. I got some threaded nipples and simply screw my elbow onto that threaded nipple. I also found I made the overflow to narrow and could not screw off the nipple. I have since moved from acrylic to glass and corrected that issue. My elbows are on tight. I could turn them another full turn but I would never get them off. I thought about cementing them in, but, once again, if I had issues I would have to cut them out. I would rather screw something off than cut it. just my 2cents.

rich

 

[meegwell]

Finally did my first Water Test - How to Fix this?

Finally did my first Water Test - How to Fix this?

I was crossing my fingers and toes as the tank was filling last night. After the usual suction/flushing/gurgeling I made some siphon valve adjustments and balanced this puppy into perfect silence! Its awesome.

Here is my number one issue bugging the crap out of me (besides the fact that the magdrive 7 sounds so loud): My C2C is not level!!!! I have 36" of overflow capacity but only using about 15" because it is ever so slightly not level...water actually rests on the edge of the glass most of the distance. The overflow rises above the waterline maybe a 1/8" at one end.

I dont think there is much I can do here short of a tear down, which I wont. I've contemplated some way of leveling it maybe with silicone (its 1/4" glass btw) but I just cant think of technique that would make it sure to be a clean and accurate job.

Any thoughts here? :sad1:

 

[picker]

> magdrive 7 sounds so loud
> ever so slightly not level...water actually rests on the edge of the glass

a quite higher flow pump will solve both