Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[ISMANU]

Well that is a great drawing, and I really hate to burst your bubble, but the holes in the bottom are too close together. 1 hole diameter, edge to edge.

Why do you say they are too close together...... too close for what? My drawing is a little off, I couldn't find 1-1/2" bulkheads in the warehouse so I just scaled up a 1" The tank is already drilled and I test fit all the bulkheads so they fit in that regard. 1 hole diameter edge to edge is that a rule of thumb or Stress requirement? The tank manufacture drilled them so I assume that they are OK stress wise

Thanks for the complement on the drawing..... means a lot from you I have seen your work

Again thanks for all your input I just wish I had read more here before I had this tank made would have done it a little differently.

 

[Dseg]

Ok so I studied the Bean drain and I have a problem/question. I only have two drains. My drains are two 1" bulkheads, if I make one drain a full siphon but make it draw-in from a 3/4" inlet and use the other drain as a 1" Durso drain. Would I be ok? Or should I do a 1/2" inlet on the full siphon drain?

What is the way to get a silent drain for me with minimum air in the sump?

 

[uncleof6]

Why do you say they are too close together...... too close for what? My drawing is a little off, I couldn't find 1-1/2" bulkheads in the warehouse so I just scaled up a 1" The tank is already drilled and I test fit all the bulkheads so they fit in that regard. 1 hole diameter edge to edge is that a rule of thumb or Stress requirement? The tank manufacture drilled them so I assume that they are OK stress wise

Thanks for the complement on the drawing..... means a lot from you I have seen your work

Again thanks for all your input I just wish I had read more here before I had this tank made would have done it a little differently.

The 1 hole diameter is a stress requirement. Have seen many tanks break across the web (not internet lol) between holes. Better is 1.5x the hole diameter, but have not seen that many at 1x break. It is luck of the draw. It brings an element of risk, having them closer.

I don't trust tank manufacturers as far as I can throw them. They may have tempered the bottom panel, and that would help.

 

[ISMANU]

:headwally: well here is hoping I don't have any issues.... back to this thread it looks like the system should work set up this way right?

 

[uncleof6]

:headwally: well here is hoping I don't have any issues.... back to this thread it looks like the system should work set up this way right?

The drain system should work yes. You are going to need a big pump to run the closed loop. And probably a big pump to run the main return as well. Topics for a different thread though.

 

[uncleof6]

Ok so I studied the Bean drain and I have a problem/question. I only have two drains. My drains are two 1" bulkheads, if I make one drain a full siphon but make it draw-in from a 3/4" inlet and use the other drain as a 1" Durso drain. Would I be ok? Or should I do a 1/2" inlet on the full siphon drain?

What is the way to get a silent drain for me with minimum air in the sump?

No. Never run a siphon without a dry emergency. 1" siphon, 1" dry emergency. Called a herbie, it is silent, but requires adjustment from time to time. Don't use 1/2" or 3/4" for anything. With only two drains you loose the advantage of self adjustment. It is more important to consider flood prevention.

 

[alessandro]

uncleof6:
could you help me too?
:love1:

 

[Dseg]

No. Never run a siphon without a dry emergency. 1" siphon, 1" dry emergency. Called a herbie, it is silent, but requires adjustment from time to time. Don't use 1/2" or 3/4" for anything. With only two drains you loose the advantage of self adjustment. It is more important to consider flood prevention.

Thanks for the reply, what should I do with two 1" drains?

 

[alessandro]

Yes I still recommend no teeth. Teeth take 39 inches and turn it into 19" or worse ~ 10" of actual linear length overflow. We are looking for maximum linear length. Teeth look cool, and that is about the extent of it. They don't keep critters out of the overflow, and severely limit the surface skimming. The channeling makes for a louder overflow, and what we want is maximum surface skimming and quiet operation... ok before I get redundant here....

About teeth I agree with all your points but I have a question:
in your experience, without teeth, how do you prevent fishes to go in the overflow?

 

[ISMANU]

About teeth I agree with all your points but I have a question:
in your experience, without teeth, how do you prevent fishes to go in the overflow?

Your water level should only be >= 1/4" above the overflow line in order to get good skimming and this is not enough to invite fish in, The teeth are supposed to stop snails and other critters from crawling in but it has been my experience that they just crawl over them (snails aren't afraid of a little air).

And probably a big pump to run the main return as well. Topics for a different thread though.

Uncleof6 since I already am posting I have 2 Reeflo Hammerheads in the design

 

[uncleof6]

About teeth I agree with all your points but I have a question:
in your experience, without teeth, how do you prevent fishes to go in the overflow?

Some use a plastic net cover over the overflow, but I really don't see the value in that. If a fish is going into the overflow, generally they take a joy ride, and end up swimming happily in the sump (as long as your plumbing is not minimally sized. With netting or such, they land on the net, and die.....

 

[uncleof6]

Hi from the old Europe! (Italy)
here we do not have much familiarity with the beananimal overflow but I have spent a lot of time reading this looong thread and I like this overflow a lot!
The thing i like more, apart of course to be silent and failsafe, is the ability to carry a large amount of water, well above any other solution.
I am planning my new tank.
It will be:
170x110x70 cm ( about 68*44*28H inches) with a sump of 120x60 (48"x24").
About 350 gallons.
I want an external coast to coast overflow on the longer side with a beananimal.
The return lines will be 2 driven from 2 return pumps (i think to Red Dragon 2 x 6000/7000 litres -each (1800 gph each).
Could you please suggest me the ideal dimension for overflow (I am thinking 15x15 cm (6"x6") or 15x20 height cm - 6"x 8" height) all the longer side.
Better higher?
Could you please help me also with the correct diameter of the 3 beananimal pipes and the 2 return pipes?
Thank you very much for your help.
Alessandro

This should answer the dimension question. How are you getting the water from inside the tank to the outside? This is an internal/external "model." It is setup with some wiggle room for 1.5" pipe. I would think with a 36" drop, and ~3000 - 3500 gph, 1.5" pipe should work.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20851580&postcount=5202

I think you should use a single pump that can hit around 3500 gph, at your head height + friction loss, rather than run two pumps (even Red Dragons.) It will be more efficient. At that flow rate, I would want to use 2" diameter return pipe. 1.5" would work, but the friction loss would be rather high, needing a larger pump.

 

[alessandro]

This should answer the dimension question. How are you getting the water from inside the tank to the outside? This is an internal/external "model." It is setup with some wiggle room for 1.5" pipe. I would think with a 36" drop, and ~3000 - 3500 gph, 1.5" pipe should work.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20851580&postcount=5202

I think you should use a single pump that can hit around 3500 gph, at your head height + friction loss, rather than run two pumps (even Red Dragons.) It will be more efficient. At that flow rate, I would want to use 2" diameter return pipe. 1.5" would work, but the friction loss would be rather high, needing a larger pump.

Thank you for your help.
Drop will be around 48"
I will have an external overflow without teeth.
I have no more of 6"/7" between the tank and the wall so width of overflow will be 6". Depth of course is free and I am thinking to 7" or 8".
My second pump is for safety in case first fails so i can put a smaller pump there like Eheim 1262 and a bigger that can hit 3500 gph.

 

[uncleof6]

Thank you for your help.
Drop will be around 48"

1.5" pipe should meet your needs for the drain.

I will have an external overflow without teeth.
I have no more of 6"/7" between the tank and the wall so width of overflow will be 6". Depth of course is free and I am thinking to 7" or 8".

That sounds fine.

My second pump is for safety in case first fails so i can put a smaller pump there like Eheim 1262 and a bigger that can hit 3500 gph.

An Eheim 1262 is too small, to keep sufficient circulation in a 350, using it as a back even. I would grab one of those Red Dragons, for a back up, along with a pump that can hit 3500 gph.

 

[meegwell]

Thanks for the reply, what should I do with two 1" drains?

Do the herbie design. One full siphon, one dry emergency ( elbow turned up).

The benefit of the bean design, with an open channel (that can convert to full siphon in a problem via the air house becoming submerged ) is that the open channel handles the variations in the return pump flow. No need to adjust.

Since you have two holes, do the full siphon with a ball ball valve, tune it in perfectly so its silent....and have the other hole as the dry emergency.

Difference is you will have to re-tune that full siphon were as in the bean design the open channel acts as your automatcic re-tuner.....

Meegwell

 

[Sacohen]

I have a standard 55 gallon tank that I want to do this on.
My problem is I have no room behind the tank. Can I put the C2C on either the left or right side (about 12 inches wide) and the drill the holes through the side and have the three pipes over there?

I'm not sure if I want to do it like this one was...

or to have an external box like I saw on another post in here.

 

[uncleof6]

I have a standard 55 gallon tank that I want to do this on.
My problem is I have no room behind the tank. Can I put the C2C on either the left or right side (about 12 inches wide) and the drill the holes through the side and have the three pipes over there?

I'm not sure if I want to do it like this one was...

or to have an external box like I saw on another post in here.

First determine if the glass on the tank is tempered. The vast majority of 55 gallon tanks have tempered glass, which means they cannot be drilled or fabricated. Making the whole issue moot.

 

[Sacohen]

First determine if the glass on the tank is tempered. The vast majority of 55 gallon tanks have tempered glass, which means they cannot be drilled or fabricated. Making the whole issue moot.

I know the bottom of the tank is tempered, there is a warning label on it that says "Do Not Drill, This bottom is tempered glass" or something like that.

My point is that the warning was written in a way that it was not clear about the sides. I'm going to check the sides, but I wanted to know if there was a minimum length that the weir needed to be or something like that.

 

[uncleof6]

Best is the full length of the back side of the tank.

 

[Mr_Jones]

Ok after much consideration and review I believe the following will be best for my location/tank. If anyone can suggests improvements to this then please do so. Basic requirements are.

1 - beananimal overflow
2 - External overflow on the end of the tank
3 - 1.5 inch bulk heads
4 - tank dimensions are 72x28x30. (I increased the width on the tank based info from uncleof6).
5 - will have no teeth on the opening into the external overflow
4 - the additional hole in the external overflow is for the return to tank bulkhead

This was found on sketch up, seems to match exactly what I'm looking for.