Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

You should have a valve on the primary siphon. The open channel and the emergency should always be completely open during operation. You want to close the valve on the primary siphon only until you are getting a small amount of flow down the open channel.
 
Sorry, I probably called them wrong. Yes, primary siphon has a gate valve on it. It is fully closed (nothing going down it) and the full siphon (down turned elbow with no valve) is taking SO much flow that my pump can't push enough to overwhelm that SINGLE siphon.

That's where my problem is coming from. Is there a way to have less flow through the unrestricted siphon?
 
Under normal operation there shouldn't be an unrestricted siphon. The primary siphon should have a valve and it should be restricted. The open channel should not be a siphon because of the airline vent but the valve, if present, should be completely open. The emergency shouldn't come into use except possibly during startup, and again if a valve is present it should be completely open. Assuming all pipe diameters are the same, then any one of the backup standpipes is often able to take the full flow when they become siphons, either because the airline on the open channel begins to suck water or the emergency drain becomes submerged.

Do you have pictures of the system? It sounds as though the drains are constructed improperly or you may be a bit confused on how the system operates. Although I may just be misunderstanding you as well.
 
Ok, you're right, I figured out the problem. I have my airline vent on the wrong pipe. I have it on the one with the valve. Since everything is glued, that should be an interesting fix. At least I know what is wrong now. I can't believe I fouled that up! I looked at the first page picture a million times before assembling.

Thanks so much

-mark
 
Syntastic, I have a 46 bow with a 20 gallon high sump. So while Bean and Uncle are the authorities, and I agree, in small tanks, thing go wrong very fast, I have my C2C 30" long and I am using 3/4 inch pipe. I have a eheim 1260. This works for me. Absolutely silent and done as designed by Bean. The size of the overflow for 1" was too large for my eye. I did purchase the 1" components and fit them, and I didn't like it. So I went with 3/4.

Would I do this on a smaller tank...probably not in that I would go with a All in one and avoid a sump all together.

rich
 
Ok my 1" bulkhead od measures 1.67" or 42.4mm Not sure if that's what you want or not.
Doug

Thx

I found some more detailled models in Sketchup and the 1" bulkhead seems to be roughly the one sold as a '32mm' here. The '25mm' one is somewhere in between the 3/4" and the 1" bulkhead.
So I guess to be on the safe side with flow, I'd go for the 32mm version.
 
Ok, so I got it fixed. My temp solution last night (plugging the hole in the wrong cap) didn't work so well. It was apparently sucking air still. When I read how the head pressure will pull that air down and cause a full siphon (restricted), I cut the cap off, replaced it and glued it, and WOW. Silence. Amazing work! Thanks for the help!!
 
i read through a lot of this thread and could not find any mention of how close the initial 90s for the drains should/can be to the bottom of the glass of the overflow. Mine are probably 1/8th of an inch from touching the glass...I see that Bean cut his with a table saw, is this necessary? would this cause any drainage problems?
 
Quick question for anyone running this system. Are all 3 pipes submerged ~1" in the sump?

I read pretty much the whole thread over the course of a couple weeks and don't recall seeing it mentioned. I probably just don't remember!

Thanks
 
Quick question for anyone running this system. Are all 3 pipes submerged ~1" in the sump?

I read pretty much the whole thread over the course of a couple weeks and don't recall seeing it mentioned. I probably just don't remember!

Thanks

dude come on, its directly on beananimals website: "All (3) standpipes extend into the sump and terminate just below the water level."

it's not necessary, but having the main siphon terminate below the standpipe, the startup is easier
 
i read through a lot of this thread and could not find any mention of how close the initial 90s for the drains should/can be to the bottom of the glass of the overflow. Mine are probably 1/8th of an inch from touching the glass...I see that Bean cut his with a table saw, is this necessary? would this cause any drainage problems?


That is too close. 3/4" is a practical gap. More than that is practical as well. Less than that, and you are going to loose something, not quite sure what, but eventually you will. Something that would most likely pass down the drain, can get stuck with such a small gap, and partially even fully occlude the drain line. There is redundant backup of course and it works, however—we really don't want to tempt the fates if it isn't necessary.

Bean cut teeth in his elbows to keep fish out. But, keeping fish out is not a practical pursuit to waste time and energy on. In terms of performance, less water can squeeze between the teeth, than an open inlet. How much less, could take some effort I don't care to put in to it.

I try to encourage folks to NOT use minimal dimensioning when building these systems. No sense painting your self into a corner, in the end it just makes more work for you.
 
Ok, so I got it fixed. My temp solution last night (plugging the hole in the wrong cap) didn't work so well. It was apparently sucking air still. When I read how the head pressure will pull that air down and cause a full siphon (restricted), I cut the cap off, replaced it and glued it, and WOW. Silence. Amazing work! Thanks for the help!!

Thanks... glad to see you got the help you needed and are up and running!
 
i read through a lot of this thread and could not find any mention of how close the initial 90s for the drains should/can be to the bottom of the glass of the overflow. Mine are probably 1/8th of an inch from touching the glass...I see that Bean cut his with a table saw, is this necessary? would this cause any drainage problems?

DO NOT cut small parts like this in a TS... you will end up without fingers... I have not updated the renderings, but am no longer user teeth or guards around the standpipes.

1/8" is pretty close... depending on flow. Over the years I have found that any fish that DO end up in the overflow need to find their way to the sump. I would guess I have maybe 1/2" to 3/4"of clearance now.
 
Quick question for anyone running this system. Are all 3 pipes submerged ~1" in the sump?

I read pretty much the whole thread over the course of a couple weeks and don't recall seeing it mentioned. I probably just don't remember!

Thanks

Yes, all three pipes are submerged about 1" in the sump (operating depth).
 
dude come on, its directly on beananimals website: "All (3) standpipes extend into the sump and terminate just below the water level."
We all miss things sometimes... that is what this thread is for. I (and several others) answer the same basic questions over and over... please be kind if you are going to help....
 
We all miss things sometimes... that is what this thread is for. I (and several others) answer the same basic questions over and over... please be kind if you are going to help....


Thank you (both) for the answer. And sorry for asking questions that have already been asked. Like I said I have read pretty much everypage of the thread and probably just missed it. I knew that the two went in the water ~1". Just want sure of the emergency. Kinda seemed like you would want to keep that one out to reduce pressure in case it actually had to be used. Turns out it gets submerged also!

I have everything done beside that last vertical tube going in the sump. Just wanted to make sure before I glued it in place.

Thanks again!
 
howdy again, I have the system up and running, but I can not get the main siphon to have 0 bubbles. It also makes a lot of trickling noise from the main siphon.. see the youtube video below. any advice is appreciated. thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJGlFU74urs&feature=youtu.be

You have an air leak somewhere. I would check the unions and make sure the orings are greased and the connection is tight, but don't crank down on it or you will destroy the oring. Check the glued joints. I had to put a wrap or two of Teflon tape on the street elbow inside the overflow to stop it from pulling air.
 
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