Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[gernby]

Below is a simplified diagram illustrating how I think the BA could be simplified. Basically, you would just restrict the flow with the valve until the water level in the overflow box raised enough to start spilling over the exterior open channel.

Thoughts?

 

[austings]

I picked up a 40 breeder today, went to lowes and got all of the plumbing. Just waiting for my bulk heads to come in. Cant wait!

 

[BeanAnimal]

gernby:

From general standpoint, the system (in normal operation mode) is functionally the same. In fact. that is exactly how my skimmer discharge and ATS discharge are plumbed (I will post photos later if I get a chance...) The "3rd" standpipe is much smaller than the primary and emergency, and in my case vinyl tubing.

For a high capacity overflow, that means you still have 3 standpipes but have increased the failure probability by reducing the flow paths from the overflow box. In context to the dynamics of "normal" operating mode, the system will work as if all 3 standpipes were IN the overflow box.

From a capacity standpoint, the combined standpipe would have to be 2x the area of sums of the pipe below the valve and the "open channel" standpipe and the open channel at least the size of the pipe below the valve. In other words, both need to be the same size, but the area ABOVE the valve needs to be the area of the two combined.... make sense? For a skimmer or ATS, etc, were the flow is MUCH lower, the pipes are MUCH smaller and therefore the design make good sense.

 

[jeppley84]

As I have been reading through post on the overflow I having seen my problem talked about unless it's on the other link . I have a 75 gallon tank with calflo I have done exactly the way you say . I can hear the water running down my syphon. Tank is is maybe a 32nd or a 1/16 off enough I don't have water spilling over all the way. I am using a mag 7 for a return pump I am not getting any gurgling or slurping sems to be working good except I can here water running do the drain pipe .

 

[crazymittens]

Just wanted to say thanks to Beananimal, uncleof6, and all those who have taken the time to post their builds. This is a freshwater tank, but a lot of my research consisted of: 'site:reefcentral.com' My first tank also had the same system, but with an internal C2C along the back length...you can see it in the video, was recycled as the sump!

For those interested...my plumbing in the video is noisy because my pri/sec siphons are too low in the external box which creates the waterfall effect. Will be raising them up to compensate.

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=5te_rBUdM2E

Build thread
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=395426

 

[gernby]

I spent some time over the weekend redoing the plumbing in my soon-to-be retired 105 gallon reef. It has been running almost flawlessly for 9 years, and has several fish that are older than 10 years. It has a single overflow box, and has 2 bulkheads. One bulkhead is for the drain, and the other is for the return. However, I didn't use the return pipe, since I ran multiple tubes up the back from 3 squids.

I don't really know what the terminology is for the type of standpipe I had, but it was just a tall open-channel with a turn-down on top. I was never able to get it to run silently, but got it to a tolerable volume by using an undersized return pump.

Since I'm about to set up a DSA 180 Extreme Bow Front with the sump located in a remote closet, I decided to prototype my new plumbing on my old tank. I'm not all that concerned by the noise at the sump, but I want the aquarium and overflow to be totally silent.

I started by replacing the Mag 7 return pump with a Mag 12, which almost overflowed my tank. Then I replaced the drain plumbing with parts that had a slightly larger internal diameter (3/4"), and built it out as shown in the diagram below.

I am totally blown away by how awesome this works! If I open the valve all the way, the overflow goes totally empty in seconds, and it immediately starts girgling loudly while air bubbles start flowing into the tank. However, once I start to close the valve, the girgling slows, then stops. The water spilling over the top of the box slowly gets quieter as the water level slowly rises inside the overflow box. I can watch the water level rising at the same rate in the exterior tubing. Once the water level reaches the upper T fitting outside the tank, it starts to spill into the open channel. Once this happens, the water level in the overflow stops rising.

If I close the water valve a little more, the amount of water that spills in the open channel increases. However, I have to close the valve quite a bit before the volume of water flowing down the open channel starts making any noise. There is actually quite a wide range of adjustment where the entire system is absolutely silent.

It's also very easy to optimize the water level in the overflow by simply raising or lowering the height of the upper T fitting in the external open channel. Obviously, I will want to have an emergency return as well, but there's no need to prototype that one.

I'll take some pictures and video this evening.

 

[tassod]

New tank / need advice on setting up overflow

New tank / need advice on setting up overflow

I'm upgrading and getting a 72"L x 36"w X 24"H acrylic tank custom built. I posted this on another thread and was told to go with a coast to coast behind the tank overflow. Can someone point me in the right direction on how i should have the tank builder build this for me? What should the overflow dimensions be? How big should the drains and returns be? Where should the returns be located? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would love to also see pics and examples of this if anyone has this setup.

 

[Da Maui life]

I'm upgrading and getting a 72"L x 36"w X 24"H acrylic tank custom built. I posted this on another thread and was told to go with a coast to coast behind the tank overflow. Can someone point me in the right direction on how i should have the tank builder build this for me? What should the overflow dimensions be? How big should the drains and returns be? Where should the returns be located? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would love to also see pics and examples of this if anyone has this setup.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

 

[Da Maui life]

http://www.glassreef.com/basics_overflow.php

 

[silentstorm]

whats best for a reef ready tank??

whats best for a reef ready tank??

Thanks to bean for his idea & efforts to share it.

My question : I just bought a 180 reef ready tank with dual overflows with 2 1" holes drilled in the bottom. I am thinking about implementing bean's concept:

overflow 1 will house the siphon & emergency (one side of the tank)
overflow 2 will house the open channel & return lines.

This way i can reduce the flow through the siphon & make some flow go through the open channel (such that there is no noise) thereby pulling surface water from both ends of the tank.
And split the return into 2 lines for more flow.

Any comments / feedback?? Are there any downsides to this approach??

And since the holes drilled are 1 inch.. should I use 1 inch pipes or using a little bigger size (1.5") be better??

 

[SGT_York]

There are downsides to every approach. I had no luck gettin the open channel to be quite with a siphon in one overflow and a durso in the other.

I started out like that on my 120 two moves ago, downsides are the open channel is difficult to set right. As the overflow level is not dependent on the siphon line in the other overflow. In the siphon overflow without an open channel the water fluxuated just enough to not be silent. The overflow with a herbie siphon and emergency works well enough, but the durso style open channel tries to match the flow rate of the other overflow constantly gurgling.

You want the water level to be equal and be set by the weirs, so if one overflow is siphoning more water it tends to be lower. If you set the durso in the second overflow equal to the water level in the display it would work but it was difficult to get right. If you set it lower than the wier it will try and match half of the return and will be loud. You just want a bit of flow down the open channel and with two overflows it is hard to do.

I switched to two siphons and two emergencies, then I improved again by joining the two overflows under the tank to a gate valve using the remaining two bulkheads as emergency/open channels. (tricky but works great if done right)

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks to bean for his idea & efforts to share it.

My question : I just bought a 180 reef ready tank with dual overflows with 2 1" holes drilled in the bottom. I am thinking about implementing bean's concept:

overflow 1 will house the siphon & emergency (one side of the tank)
overflow 2 will house the open channel & return lines.

This way i can reduce the flow through the siphon & make some flow go through the open channel (such that there is no noise) thereby pulling surface water from both ends of the tank.
And split the return into 2 lines for more flow.

Any comments / feedback?? Are there any downsides to this approach??

And since the holes drilled are 1 inch.. should I use 1 inch pipes or using a little bigger size (1.5") be better??

The siphon and open channel must be in the same overflow, for the system to function properly. There is good information on dealing with dual overflows, earlier in this thread, over the course of the last year or so.

 

[SantaMonica]

I don't miss my tuned overflow from my 90 tall (before the tank cracked), because even though it was basically silent, the emergency still kept a slight trickle when it was balanced properly. And even if totally silent, you still had the return pump running.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You have been back for little more than a week and you show up in my thread out of the blue to tell us that a negative aspect of silent overflows is that the return pump can be heard?

Seeing that we both know I am not a fan and you have spent your share of time downplaying the usefulness of my overflow, my guess is you are shamelessly visiting (fishing?) highly active threads for traffic to your forums.

 

[HowieUMD]

I just bought a new 390 gallon glass tank. It's 96 X 30 X 30. I had it setup with two overflows inside along the back close to each corner. That's how I had my old 240 setup back in 2005 when I first started and failed to do research prior to ordering it and just had them set it up the same way when I ordered. I'm pretty irritated after recently reading about BeanAnimal and Herbie methods that I didn't do my research first and get my overflow layout setup right (modernized). I have a 1.5'' and 1'' hole in each of my overflows.

This tank took 6 of us to move, so I can't bring it anywhere to get additional holes at this point, and I'd be way too afraid to drill more holes myself at this point, so I'm pretty much stuck as is. Is there a way I can have a modified type of BeanAnimal setup, or am I stuck with the old Durso way I used to have with this overflow layout? I've tried searching through this thread, but it's so long. I'm still going to read through it, but any help in the meantime would be great. I've attached a picture of my sump plans, just because it better shows where my overflows are for the purpose of this post. Thank you.

 

[silentstorm]

I just bought a new 390 gallon glass tank. It's 96 X 30 X 30. I had it setup with two overflows inside along the back close to each corner. That's how I had my old 240 setup back in 2005 when I first started and failed to do research prior to ordering it and just had them set it up the same way when I ordered. I'm pretty irritated after recently reading about BeanAnimal and Herbie methods that I didn't do my research first and get my overflow layout setup right (modernized). I have a 1.5'' and 1'' hole in each of my overflows.

This tank took 6 of us to move, so I can't bring it anywhere to get additional holes at this point, and I'd be way too afraid to drill more holes myself at this point, so I'm pretty much stuck as is. Is there a way I can have a modified type of BeanAnimal setup, or am I stuck with the old Durso way I used to have with this overflow layout? I've tried searching through this thread, but it's so long. I'm still going to read through it, but any help in the meantime would be great. I've attached a picture of my sump plans, just because it better shows where my overflows are for the purpose of this post. Thank you.

@Howie - I am stuck with the same problem except that I bought a used 180 tank. And I have 2 1" hole drilled in each of my overflow...

I have not finished reading through the entire thread.. but I did ask the same question & from what I understand.... we have to use 3 of the drilled holes for drains.. & the last one as the return. And this is best done as follows:

One overflow houses the siphon & the open channel (in your case, the 1.5" can be the siphon - to handle a lot of flow & the 1" can be the open channel)

2nd overflow houses the emergency & the return (1.5" for return & the 1" for the emergency) And since only one return - you can actually split that into 2 lines pointing in different directions.

I hope its clear... I am fairly new to this as well, and hope somebody will correct if am wrong..

 

[HowieUMD]

@Howie - I am stuck with the same problem except that I bought a used 180 tank. And I have 2 1" hole drilled in each of my overflow...

I have not finished reading through the entire thread.. but I did ask the same question & from what I understand.... we have to use 3 of the drilled holes for drains.. & the last one as the return. And this is best done as follows:

One overflow houses the siphon & the open channel (in your case, the 1.5" can be the siphon - to handle a lot of flow & the 1" can be the open channel)

2nd overflow houses the emergency & the return (1.5" for return & the 1" for the emergency) And since only one return - you can actually split that into 2 lines pointing in different directions.

I hope its clear... I am fairly new to this as well, and hope somebody will correct if am wrong..

That sounds pretty clear. I'm just concerned with a 1.5" siphon. Not sure if I calculated it right, but at about 5' head (top of siphon pipe to end of pipe that sits in sump?) it'll be about 6,000 gph. I know I can control it with a valve or possibly minimize to 1" tubing. Would it be better to put the siphon on the 1" and open channel on the 1.5"?

 

[uncleof6]

That sounds pretty clear. I'm just concerned with a 1.5" siphon. Not sure if I calculated it right, but at about 5' head (top of siphon pipe to end of pipe that sits in sump?) it'll be about 6,000 gph. I know I can control it with a valve or possibly minimize to 1" tubing. Would it be better to put the siphon on the 1" and open channel on the 1.5"?

It is the other way around: 1" siphon, 1.5" open channel. In the other overflow, you can take your pick: either the 1" for dry emergency, or 1.5" for dry emergency. Always use the larger diameter for the open channel. It is easier to keep large pipe quiet, than small pipe.

Head height is measured from water level in the tank, to water level in the sump (if the inlet and outlet are submerged.) Even with 1" pipe as the siphon, you will have to be closing the valve some.

 

[HowieUMD]

It is the other way around: 1" siphon, 1.5" open channel. In the other overflow, you can take your pick: either the 1" for dry emergency, or 1.5" for dry emergency. Always use the larger diameter for the open channel. It is easier to keep large pipe quiet, than small pipe.

Head height is measured from water level in the tank, to water level in the sump (if the inlet and outlet are submerged.) Even with 1" pipe as the siphon, you will have to be closing the valve some.

Thank you! Your expertise is much appreciated. Just to make sure I'm understanding, I updated my overflow and sump diagram. Is this what you are pretty much suggesting, overflow wise? I know my sump is another story, but I'm stuck in a situation where I need to use two tanks under the stand. as opposed to one. My only concern I guess would be on the left overflow, where it's just the emergency drain, wouldn't the water become stagnant and would that have any negative effect in that overflow? If that's the case, is the only way to combat that to put a small powerhead or something in there to keep water moving around? Thank you again!

 

[shrimphead]

I spent some time over the weekend redoing the plumbing in my soon-to-be retired 105 gallon reef. It has been running almost flawlessly for 9 years, and has several fish that are older than 10 years. It has a single overflow box, and has 2 bulkheads. One bulkhead is for the drain, and the other is for the return. However, I didn't use the return pipe, since I ran multiple tubes up the back from 3 squids.

I don't really know what the terminology is for the type of standpipe I had, but it was just a tall open-channel with a turn-down on top. I was never able to get it to run silently, but got it to a tolerable volume by using an undersized return pump.

Since I'm about to set up a DSA 180 Extreme Bow Front with the sump located in a remote closet, I decided to prototype my new plumbing on my old tank. I'm not all that concerned by the noise at the sump, but I want the aquarium and overflow to be totally silent.

I started by replacing the Mag 7 return pump with a Mag 12, which almost overflowed my tank. Then I replaced the drain plumbing with parts that had a slightly larger internal diameter (3/4"), and built it out as shown in the diagram below.

I am totally blown away by how awesome this works! If I open the valve all the way, the overflow goes totally empty in seconds, and it immediately starts girgling loudly while air bubbles start flowing into the tank. However, once I start to close the valve, the girgling slows, then stops. The water spilling over the top of the box slowly gets quieter as the water level slowly rises inside the overflow box. I can watch the water level rising at the same rate in the exterior tubing. Once the water level reaches the upper T fitting outside the tank, it starts to spill into the open channel. Once this happens, the water level in the overflow stops rising.

If I close the water valve a little more, the amount of water that spills in the open channel increases. However, I have to close the valve quite a bit before the volume of water flowing down the open channel starts making any noise. There is actually quite a wide range of adjustment where the entire system is absolutely silent.

It's also very easy to optimize the water level in the overflow by simply raising or lowering the height of the upper T fitting in the external open channel. Obviously, I will want to have an emergency return as well, but there's no need to prototype that one.

I'll take some pictures and video this evening.

thats how i've been thinking of doing it apart from I don't have the room to raise the open channel pipe up to weir level so in effect the water will be crashing down at where the T is.