Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[GHoover01]

It can be done, you just need a big pump, and big pipe, angled as down as you can.

OK dont laugh, But I have a swimming pump id like to try first. 2500 gph. Loud and power not an issue, want to try and if it works well purchase and use a proper pump that pref. uses less energy.

And plan was to use 2" bulk heads and pipe down to sump.

 

[uncleof6]

OK dont laugh, But I have a swimming pump id like to try first. 2500 gph. Loud and power not an issue, want to try and if it works well purchase and use a proper pump that pref. uses less energy.

And plan was to use 2" bulk heads and pipe down to sump.

Well...ok

 

[GHoover01]

Well...ok

I know not the best use or best pump for this use. BUT wanna make sure its gonna work. And i think its got to be enough flow.... I hope. IDK. Other than the pump choice does this seem like a bad idea?

 

[535freak]

My return pump is about 4500gph so what size and how many siphons should I run

 

[uncleof6]

My return pump is about 4500gph so what size and how many siphons should I run

How much of that actually gets up to the tank?

 

[535freak]

How much of that actually gets up to the tank?

At least 3500

 

[SkyReef]

Update: BeanAnimal System With Internal and External Overflow

Update: BeanAnimal System With Internal and External Overflow

Hey, All:

I wanted to post an update on my BeanAnimal System having internal and external overflow-boxes. (See Post No. 5308 of This Thread, at http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20917000&postcount=5308 (showing the planning stage of an earlier design of this build).) This post is largely repetitive of another post made today in a different thread, which focuses on the nature of the external overflow-box being made out of wood. So I'll keep this post very short here, with a brief explanation, due props, and some pictures.

The BeanAnimal overflow system is working flawlessly. The water flows smoothly from my skinny, internal overflow-box through five holes drilled in the back wall of the aquarium via bulkheads, to the wider, trough-like, wooden, external overflow-box on the rear of the tank. The water then drains down into the sump, via the "siphon" line and the "open-channel" line, with the third PVC line operating as a dry, emergency, overflow channel. Here are some pictures of the entire setup, depicting the BeanAnimal System from above and below.

Thanks, BeanAnimal for a Great design. Also thanks to UncleOf6, who gave some great advice on the hole-spacing of the five, glass holes.

Photo: Straight On View of Tank. (Notice The Internal Overflow-Box Along the Upper, Back Side of the Tank):

Photo: Above the Overflow Box, From the Left Side:

Photo: Beneath the Overflow Box, From the Left Side:

Photo: Right Side View of Tank, Depicting Both the Internal and External Overflow Boxes:

Photo: Beneath the Overflow Box, From the Right Side:

Photo: Above the Overflow Box, From the Right Side:

Photo: Unskirted Tank Stand, Revealing Trigger System Ruby Sump with Drainlines, SWC Skimmer, and Waterfall Algae Turf Scrubber

Photo: Unskirted Tank Stand, from Right Side:

 

[BeanAnimal]

Glad to see it all come together!

 

[hobbzz]

I'm going to be using the existing overflows in my new tank to do a bean animal. I'll be combining one 1" drain line from each overflow into one single line going to the sump for the siphons. My question is on the piping size and placement of the gate valve.

The bulkheads are 1", so combining two would mean 2" piping after the "T", although my return is a laguna 1350 which will be pushing around 800-900 gph after head loss. Would that kind of flow be able to fill a 2" pipe enough to create the siphon and keep it going and silent? If not, what size piping should I go with? 1.25" or 1.5"? And should the gate valve be as close to the tank as possible or at the other end of the siphon drain line in the sump? Thanks.

 

[BeanAnimal]

kaos,

I assume you have either not taken the time to read what this thread is about, or you are in some way affiliated with the website you posted a link to and hope to use the popularity of this thread to advertise a companies product.

Either way, the "Maggie muffler" is yet one more take on the stockman/durso/etc partial siphon standpipe idea. As such it is only silent under ideal conditions and a narrow range of flow rates.

The overflow system presented here is many times safer and remains silent over an extraordinarily large range of flows, all without the need for modification.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I'm going to be using the existing overflows in my new tank to do a bean animal. I'll be combining one 1" drain line from each overflow into one single line going to the sump for the siphons. My question is on the piping size and placement of the gate valve.

You will need to do some reading... The system does not balance well between two overflow boxes.

The bulkheads are 1", so combining two would mean 2" piping

No...

A 1" ID pipe has a cross section of .785 inches
A 2" ID pipe has a cross section of 3.14 inches

So two 1" ID pipes have a combines cross section of about 1.5 inches. A 1.5" pipe has a cross section of a little over 1.7 inches.

"Would that kind of flow be able to fill a 2" pipe enough to create the siphon and keep it going and silent?[/quote] You could fill just about any diameter pipe as long as the valve was at the end of the pipe.

But again, keeping the flow into the two pipes constant that are in two isolated boxes is going to be a challenge, as is finding a way to get the open channel to accept the excess.

 

[hobbzz]

Thanks Bean. Ive actually done a lot of reading on this specific subject. Ive searched rc and read every thread pertaining to combining two corner overflows. Also searched the web. I've found about a dozen people that have successfully used this method in the past or currently do. And I haven't found anyone that has tried and failed.

Now that's not to say I think its going to be easy, just possible. I just needed to iron out those two details until I actually set up the tank and try it out. Thanks for the info, this is a great system!

 

[ReefPharmer]

Can I use 1 inch piping through the whole set up? I dont plan to put much flow through the system, using an eheim 1262. I realize it should be 1 inch to 1.5 but am trying to see if i can pull it off with 1 inchers. Also is it absolutely necessary to use the street T or can I use a regular T (1 inch).

Thanks!

 

[Lavoisier]

Dry fit on my Bean Animal. Please let me know if you see any gross oversight. The plywood, by the way, has been painted with two part epoxy this afternoon. :fun2:









Thank you for any insights. :twitch:

 

[geomarq]

Looking for feedback on my plumbing and drain issue.. I finally got my new system running, issue I’m finding is that I’m losing siphon in the middle/siphon drain causing loud and very interesting gurgling noises (air obviously).

Seems to happen with no rhyme or reason. Will start up and balance out fine, then maybe after a half hour will lose siphon and I have to twist and play with the drain to regain suction in the pipe. Then it’s fine for a while again, sometimes for hours.

Setup:
- 1” bulkheads, to 1.5” pipe throughout, traveling 12” through wall, then 48” to sump. It’s an open siphon type of discharge to my sump.
- the hydraulics calculator on the Bean site says each pipe should flow over 2300 GPH.
- my pump is rated @ 2800 GPH. Pump return is 1.5” pipe, with roughly 48” head.
- 4’ weir style overflow box. I raised the height of the emergency drain with a rubber plumbing boot (in the picture)

I think the system should be balanced. Yes? Where’s my suction loss coming from? Anyone have similar issues?

I’ve tried eliminating any air leaks.. the ball valve is tight and has lube on the o-ring and threads, the caps on the drains have Teflon tape and are tight. It’s strange it can run for hours at a time and then I’ll lose suction like I said.

 

[SGT_York]

Hobbzz, many have tried and failed to unit two separate overflows.

It is possible, mirror the plumbing or there will be issues. And 2" of pipe is excess at 800 GPH. 2" of pipe is not the same as 2x 1" pipes. The formula is Pie R squared for area. or 3.141529 square inches in a 1" pipe (1*1*3.1415) and 12.6" (2*2*3.1415) nearly 4x the flow. This oversight makes me think you need to do more research.

Geomarq, Is the siphon starting in the open channel pipe? That is my initial thought. If it is starting that would break the main siphon then shortly after reset back to silent mode. A gate valve may be a solution?

 

[FirstContact]

http://s816.photobucket.com/user/FirstContact2/media/PB050202_zps21b75bea.jpg.html

Forgot how to post pics, but here is a link. Possible to drill another hole between or just to the right of the middle two bulkheads?

Can the emergency overflow be the middle bulkhead?

 

[uncleof6]

http://s816.photobucket.com/user/FirstContact2/media/PB050202_zps21b75bea.jpg.html

Forgot how to post pics, but here is a link. Possible to drill another hole between or just to the right of the middle two bulkheads?

Can the emergency overflow be the middle bulkhead?

Could be just my eyes, but I would NOT drill anymore holes in that tank. The way it looks to me, all the holes are too high. Minimum hole to edge distance is 1 hole diameter. 1.75" hole means 1.75" from the edge to the edge of the hole. This is very important to the longevity of your tank.

In reply to your second question, it doesn't matter where the various lines are relative to each other.

 

[FirstContact]

Thanks uncleof6.

 

[TankWater]

Greetings, This is my first post so be easy on me. Long story short, I'm in the process of having a 300g (96X24X30) acrylic built. Was going to go with 2 external builtin overflows each with 2 1.5" drains using maggie mufflers. That was before I got exposed to the Herbie and Bean overflow systems. Seems like the Bean is the way to go. Now the questions! I'm thinking one long external overflow will be better than two? What would the bulkhead size and number recommendations be? I'll be running two separate 45g reef sumps that will be joined together in the middle and "Tee'ed" with my pump which will be hitting approximately 2500gph into the tank