Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Placed my fish into my new 75 system with the silent/failsafe overflow and my firefish AND my new watchman goby both ended up in my sump...I have NO IDEA how these two fish first got into the overflow and second how they got sucked into the downturned overflows...there is barely like 1/8 to 1/4" of clearance to the bottom of the glass overflow...damn, it has been a sucky day...hopefully my maroon clown won't decide to investigate the overflow like the other two did
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15347456#post15347456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jb61264
Placed my fish into my new 75 system with the silent/failsafe overflow and my firefish AND my new watchman goby both ended up in my sump...I have NO IDEA how these two fish first got into the overflow and second how they got sucked into the downturned overflows...there is barely like 1/8 to 1/4" of clearance to the bottom of the glass overflow...damn, it has been a sucky day...hopefully my maroon clown won't decide to investigate the overflow like the other two did
Click to expand...

Both of these fish are in the "encyclopedia of jumpers." These fish should be in a covered tank. Good they did not jump the side, and end up on the floor. It is unlikely that the maroon clown will jump the weir.

Regards,

Jim
 
Stu

I LOVE your signature line. I work in a kitchen and in the middle of service one night I used it....only 2 plates were dropped and we recovered nicely.
 
Hello,

I just ran across this very long thread, after 3 days of reading I like the design here. I have seen the question asked but the answer was not addressed as well as some.

I will have a display of about 400Gal with a surge box. This will share a wall with my theater so the design here to make it silent is crucial.

So how will this design perform with the surge of water? what will happen to the noise level?

Any ideas on a silent surge box?

thank you!
 
If you lower the siphon and partial siphon returns a little to give more room in the over flow box to accommodate the surge, it should work with out ever hitting the emergency pipe. You will pick up a little noise from the water flowing over the weir, and in to the overflow box.

Set it up so that it can restart at the lowest water level ( IE the surge device full, but not fired )

If you set the air line for the partial siphon to the lower level, it will become a full siphon when the surge dumps, and move the extra water to the sump faster. This will most likely cause a slight increase in noise going from AIR/water to just water, and then when the siphon breaks again, but it will be a small amount, probable less than your surge tank makes.

Hope that makes sence, and I am sure someone who has this set up will chime in.
 
A typical 5 gallon surge device/bucket will drop the water level in a 400 gallon tank (96x36 surface area) approximately 3/8". Having an extra 5+ gallons in the overflow box for leeway will compensate for this and avoid siphon break, as Vegas reefer suggests. If you keep the end of the drain line submerged under the water in the sump, it will assure you don't lose siphon in the event that the overflow box drains to the bottom of the siphon drain intake in the overflow box.

Alternatively, you could consider a water moving device from http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/?osCsid=fec55a159e85a06d2d156250d1d07adc They have some some custom, silent surge devices and rotating ball valve controllers that aren't listed on their website. This option would not cause microbubbles, noise, or variations in the display tank water level and subsequent draining. It fits within your plumbing system so you don't need a bulky dump box above the tank.

I had the same concerns as you when I set up some system tanks with Oceans Motions 4-Way wave makers on a shared return line. I used one pump in the sump with a 4-Way to feed four tanks in a 2 on - 2 off sequence. It allowed me to use a smaller (shared) pump without losing velocity/pressure, while creating a passive surge. The added bonus was that as the display tank drains when the return line is off, it skims a thinner layer at the surface with increased surface tension. The ripple effect with metal halide lighting was also increased. I didn't experience any draining issues with this configuration.
 
Thank you both for your insight. I am planning on using my OM 8 way on a CL in addition to the surge box for tons of flow. I had been planning dual end overflows untill I found this thread and see that it sounds like it will be hard to equalize the dual overflows.

I need this to be silent, and set it and forget it... Could I set one end overflow for low operationa and the other a bit higher to keep it quiet?
 
The surface is skimmed more efficiently with a single end overflow with your return line at the opposing end. An overflow at each end can be leveled easily, but it will create dead spots on the surface and allow detritus to settle in the substrate.
 
It will only be 20-30" wide and I planned on about 2,000 gph through the overflow. Which may be excessive now that I think about it more, I will have a Cl and the Dump, the dump planned would be dual 5 gal dumps.
 
bean, glad your back.....stopped by to say i love the overflow and everything worked perfect from the get go...dead silent!!!!! a little issue with micro bubbles on the open channel, still playing with that but besides that..... flawless!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15378477#post15378477 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by big400g
It will only be 20-30" wide and I planned on about 2,000 gph through the overflow. Which may be excessive now that I think about it more, I will have a Cl and the Dump, the dump planned would be dual 5 gal dumps.
Click to expand...

Throughput for the display depends on what kind of protein skimmer you are using and how it is fed with its own throughput. The primary function of moving water to and from the sump is to feed the protein skimmer. UV sterilizers, chemical filters, mechanical filters, and refugia require less flow than the protein skimmer and can be fed in succession. A recirculating protein skimmer for a 400 gallon tank will likely require 1000 gph +- according to the manufacturers directions. A throughput of 2000 gph in the display will use excess electricity, make more noise, create more heat, tax drains more, create more bubbles, and skim a thicker (less desirable) layer of surfactants from the surface skimmers.

If you can't feed the protein skimmer directly with the drain line (siphon), then at least locate the protein skimmer in a partitioned area where it can draw new (freshly drained) water and redirect to another partitioned area towards the return pump (through the refugium). This first in first out (FIFO) system will assure the water entering the sump is all skimmed and done so only once.
 
I just had my sump custom built with refugia and coral prop area. I also had them make a holder for 2 filter socks, now that I think about it, I wanted to run the skimmer off the drain line not another pump, meaning that either I run half of the drain line to the skimmer the other half to the socks, or I do not use the socks. The skimmer is almost as tall as the height of the stand meaning that I can not run the output of the skimmer out to the socks... as far as I know.

I thought I had it all figured out, but alas nothing is ever perfect especially when it comes to reef tanks :)

The skimmer I went with is the Reef Octopus TDNW-300, it is a massive 12" around skimmer with 3 recirc needle wheel pumps. I modded it to have a self cleaning head and a wet neck, the skimmate will go straight to a drain so there should be no overflows... I know people do not like the brand of skimmer but I found it to be well made and in my price range.

Sorry I think I am getting off the topic here...

My thought on the high flow was to get all of the detritus out of the display before it created problems.
 
A couple of questions. To those of you who have had this up for a while, how often has the "emergency" standpipe been used? Also do I need to use larger down pipes if I use 1" bulkheads, say 1 1/4 or 1 1/2?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15394224#post15394224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by big400g
Mr. WIlson,

I apprciated your feedback and wondered if any of my info above will be problematic for me... thanks!
Click to expand...

I actually made some comments about it, but I guess they never got posted successfully.

Octopus skimmers have a few weak links with regard to leaks. I have seen a lot of returns at my LFS. The skimmer is an AquaMedic clone made in China. AquaMedic makes the plastic parts for their products in Poland, and the motors are parted out to China. The guy who makes the motors for them decided to make his own plastic parts and design his own skimmer. The venturi appears to be the most common part to break off. Handle it carefully and it will work fine for you. If you want to step up performance, you can try force feeding the venturis with a pressure air pump. I haven't tried it with your model, so be careful it doesn't introduce stray bubbles or mess with the operating water level too much.

I find that filter socks plug up with biofilms too quickly. I would use larger pore socks/media bags and fill them with carbon or ferric oxide media.

As for flow rates, and dynamics, it looks like you have water motion within the tank covered. A 2000 GPH return pump will be fine. If you can locate it in a quiet spot, stick with that. I'm still not satisfied with the noise level of so called "silent pumps" like Panworld or Iwaki. If you haven't picked one out, I would go with a pressure rated model. This will help if you should decide to relocate it farther away later and it will allow you to use reducer outlets at the surface to fan out the water for more ripples and flow across the surface of the display.

The plumbing for the drain will be the same whether it's a 1500 GPH or 2000 GPH pump (1.5").
 
Hi,
Great idea's in here, thanks for the posts.

I'm starting a new tank and I'm trying to work out the best possible overflow. I like the Bean's build overflow, but I was wondering if I could avoid any in tank overflow. So I was thinking the other day about how to do this. I made some quick 3d drawings to run by the RC community to help identify any possible problems before I go ahead with it.


Here's the full tank so you can see what I'm thinking. It's not coast to coast because of the braces on the tank, and the overflow box will be pushed through a hole in the wall behind the tank. The wall behind the tank has a 2x4 in the center so I can't coast to coast without re-working the wall studs for a behind tank coast to coast. Also I can't pull the tank away from the wall to make space for the behind tank overflow because the alcove it sits in is the perfect measurement for the tank.

213852tank2.jpg



Here's an up close to the overflow from inside the tank. Three 1.75" holes drilled in the tank are for the flow from the tank into the box behind the tank where the Bean overflow will be. The three holes will be covered with an acrylic strainer/snail guard. I'm curious if this is enough opening for water to get through. the return pump will be pumping about 1000 gph.

213852tank2b-med.jpg


This image show's the details of the system.
A) Acrylic Strainer / Snail Guard siliconed to cover the through holes.
B) Three flow through holes
C) Overflow box
D) Three holes for the Bulkheads
E) tank :P

213852tank2c.jpg


any thoughts for this before I butcher my tank? :)
Thanks.
 
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