Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
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thejuggernaut
Member
Has anyone made an excel for this in GPH and Inches? I'm about as good at math as my wife is at cleaning! :S
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Actually, yes - here is the one that I use (made it myself)
It uses the weir calculation from a hydraulics textbook that one of our mechanical engineers had.
I made it 2 parts:
First is for a notched overflow and it assumes that you have a 1/4" notch every 1/2" on center which is very typical. This also assumes your Coefficient of Discharge is 0.55 for a water passing through a notch.
Second is the weir overflow and it assumes a flat level weir, I have a line in there for "deduct for edges" but you can ignore that, I think I had that in there for the case where one might build a 48" long box but only have a 40" wide weir across the middle, why you wouldn't just put 40 in I don't know. Anyways I didn't want to muck with it before posting it.
thejuggernaut
Member
suhweet! My wife didn't think my previous comment was very funny BTW
A straight weir will handle allot of water flow!
A straight weir will handle allot of water flow!
Last edited:
sleepydoc
Team RC
:lmao: Better watch out - you'll end up with a pair of guppies in a bowl!
m1k3
New member
I just ran a fresh water test on my new tank and was getting a lot of air in my primary. It may not have been air entering the primary, rather difficult getting all of the air out and was still dumping some bubbles after about ten minutes. The tank is a 125, return is an Eheim compact 3000 rated at 792 GPH pushing water back at 47" through 3/4" vinyl tube. The return line has a coupling, elbow and 6" of 3/4" lockline with a Y splitter on the end and two 1.5" flare nozzles.
The external overflow box uses 1" bulkheads oriented vertically, the emergency simply uses a 1" pipe, the open channel is two street 90* with a fitting drilled and tapped for the siphon pick up. The primary is two street 90*.
Here is where I think I went wrong, the open and emergency lines are ran with 1" PVC, each has a coupler, and a couple/few 45* elbows. The primary is 1.5" PVC with a gate valve. I think I went overkill with the 1.5" line with the amount of flow that I have. Once I got the water level in the overflow constant and shut down, I was able to determine that out of 7 turns on the valve I was only open about 1.5 turns.
My thought process was nothing could stuck in the line that is able to make it through the 1" elbows. However, with the way my overflow is made, nothing over 3/8" can get to the external box anyway.
So should I downsize the primary line?
The external overflow box uses 1" bulkheads oriented vertically, the emergency simply uses a 1" pipe, the open channel is two street 90* with a fitting drilled and tapped for the siphon pick up. The primary is two street 90*.
Here is where I think I went wrong, the open and emergency lines are ran with 1" PVC, each has a coupler, and a couple/few 45* elbows. The primary is 1.5" PVC with a gate valve. I think I went overkill with the 1.5" line with the amount of flow that I have. Once I got the water level in the overflow constant and shut down, I was able to determine that out of 7 turns on the valve I was only open about 1.5 turns.
My thought process was nothing could stuck in the line that is able to make it through the 1" elbows. However, with the way my overflow is made, nothing over 3/8" can get to the external box anyway.
So should I downsize the primary line?
uncleof6
Active member
What size is the bulkhead for the primary? (siphon) If the bulkhead is 1", the pipe size is not the problem. But, if the rest of the pipes 1", the siphon needs to be 1" as well. If all three pipes were 1.5" the system would be mostly as designed, and there would be no issues.
Your flow rate, is probably down around 500gph, perhaps lower, at the most, with the configuration you are running. With 1.5" bulkheads, that could be a problem, but not with 1" bulkheads.
I strongly suspect that the problem is with the basic set up of the system, that is causing the siphon to not purge the air, as external systems are very rarely spot on, and a bit of "herbieism" has crept in. The list of possiblities is quite short.
Your flow rate, is probably down around 500gph, perhaps lower, at the most, with the configuration you are running. With 1.5" bulkheads, that could be a problem, but not with 1" bulkheads.
I strongly suspect that the problem is with the basic set up of the system, that is causing the siphon to not purge the air, as external systems are very rarely spot on, and a bit of "herbieism" has crept in. The list of possiblities is quite short.
uncleof6
Active member
If you are going to use 1.5" pipe on anything, put it on the open channel, not the siphon, use 1" for the siphon and dry emergency. The open channel is the line that needs the 1.5" pipe as 1" open channels are a bear to keep. Depending on other factors, I can't see in the photo, that probably will not solve your issue though.
Unions can suck air in past the seal, not such a hot idea really.
Unions can suck air in past the seal, not such a hot idea really.
csantanavaz
New member
Hi All,<br />
<br />
Any advice would be great.<br />
<br />
have been battling nitrates for a while now - and i have accepted that despite decreasing feeding, water changes, low levels of fish, and wofting rocks and EVERYTHING else, i 100% need to install a sump, with a skimmer and run a NP bio pellet reactor..<br />
<br />
So..background story over & onto the point of the thread..<br />
<br />
I currently have a (around about) 100 gal acrylic marine system 4 months in all running etc.. i have sourced and plan to install a sump below it (space is a non-issue for now).<br />
<br />
So: Sump size is 30 X 18 X 12 inches (28 US Gallons) - big enough? also - are separators within the Sump 100% necessary?<br />
<br />
I plan on having - filter sponges, rowaphos, active carbon (already have these 3), Bubble Magus Curve 5 Skimmer, Nutrifix Media Reactor (goodbye nitrates), and pump wise I will use my spare Eheim compact 3000...<br />
<br />
So firstly - if anyone thinks my plan of the above is not good enough or is not going to work feel free to criticise - i want to learn!<br />
<br />
But mainly, i have the drill i need and the bits... the only thing i am unsure about is the size of bulkheads i need.... i am not great with DIY but my dad is and is happy to help, providing i know what i need to do....<br />
<br />
Am i correct in thinking that after drilling the holes, bulkheads are all i need? i've read that you dont even need to use silicon with them? (or is that not true?) What size bulkheads should i use? Based on my reading I think i need 1" for the hole which is going from tank -> sump?.. would the hole be the same size for the return side of the system?<br />
<br />
Can anyone recommend what size both holes should be? <br />
<br />
Done quite a lot of research into the equipment etc i'll need but this is more to do with my lack of understanding the real difference in hole sizes... the pump i have should easily handle the flow rate i require (or so the LFS told me..)..<br />
<br />
If anyone could help that would be much appreciated... cannot wait to get nitrates down to a respectable level and start spending my savings on corals instead of nothing!!<br />
<br />
Thanks guys!<br />
<br />
Calvin<br/>
<br />
Any advice would be great.<br />
<br />
have been battling nitrates for a while now - and i have accepted that despite decreasing feeding, water changes, low levels of fish, and wofting rocks and EVERYTHING else, i 100% need to install a sump, with a skimmer and run a NP bio pellet reactor..<br />
<br />
So..background story over & onto the point of the thread..<br />
<br />
I currently have a (around about) 100 gal acrylic marine system 4 months in all running etc.. i have sourced and plan to install a sump below it (space is a non-issue for now).<br />
<br />
So: Sump size is 30 X 18 X 12 inches (28 US Gallons) - big enough? also - are separators within the Sump 100% necessary?<br />
<br />
I plan on having - filter sponges, rowaphos, active carbon (already have these 3), Bubble Magus Curve 5 Skimmer, Nutrifix Media Reactor (goodbye nitrates), and pump wise I will use my spare Eheim compact 3000...<br />
<br />
So firstly - if anyone thinks my plan of the above is not good enough or is not going to work feel free to criticise - i want to learn!<br />
<br />
But mainly, i have the drill i need and the bits... the only thing i am unsure about is the size of bulkheads i need.... i am not great with DIY but my dad is and is happy to help, providing i know what i need to do....<br />
<br />
Am i correct in thinking that after drilling the holes, bulkheads are all i need? i've read that you dont even need to use silicon with them? (or is that not true?) What size bulkheads should i use? Based on my reading I think i need 1" for the hole which is going from tank -> sump?.. would the hole be the same size for the return side of the system?<br />
<br />
Can anyone recommend what size both holes should be? <br />
<br />
Done quite a lot of research into the equipment etc i'll need but this is more to do with my lack of understanding the real difference in hole sizes... the pump i have should easily handle the flow rate i require (or so the LFS told me..)..<br />
<br />
If anyone could help that would be much appreciated... cannot wait to get nitrates down to a respectable level and start spending my savings on corals instead of nothing!!<br />
<br />
Thanks guys!<br />
<br />
Calvin<br/>
woodnaquanut
Active member
Your setup is very similar to mine.
I use 1" for all three drains on my 120g.
I have used an Eheim 1262 (900 gph) as a return. When the pump gets dirty and performance declines, I have trouble maintaining the siphon.
You might be experiencing similar issues because the return cannot provide enough flow for the drain system to completely purge air at startup. With the gate valve closed so much there might be cavitation issues too.
See if you could borrow a more powerful pump to test this out. More flow would be better anyway as you are on the low end of flow with that pump.
rickztahone
New member
thanks Uncle. From reading the bean animal layout I was under the impression that all pipes were 1.5". I didn't know you could have a larger one and a smaller sized one as well. Thank you for the explanation.
uncleof6
Active member
On the original design, they were all 1.5". With 1" bulkheads, the bulkhead is the limiting factor, the pipe size makes a difference between 1200gph and 1500gph, with a 24" drop for the siphon. Upper theoretical limit is 1669gph @ 24" drop. The difference is in friction loss.
The open channel on the other hand, has the same issues as any other durso type standpipe. It will only handle so much before it gives problems. 1" pipe is not a whole lot of flow before it gives problems. It makes sense to bring that up to 1.5".
That said, as designed, if built right, it has a very wide bandwidth from the low 100s up to the 2000gph range, depending on the drop. (Below 350gph, you don't need a siphon system.) One size fits most all situations. Problems are caused by the implementation, not the system itself or some mysterious happenstance. If it is not working right, something was not done right.
The open channel on the other hand, has the same issues as any other durso type standpipe. It will only handle so much before it gives problems. 1" pipe is not a whole lot of flow before it gives problems. It makes sense to bring that up to 1.5".
That said, as designed, if built right, it has a very wide bandwidth from the low 100s up to the 2000gph range, depending on the drop. (Below 350gph, you don't need a siphon system.) One size fits most all situations. Problems are caused by the implementation, not the system itself or some mysterious happenstance. If it is not working right, something was not done right.
Scffvariable
New member
Really could use some help to make sure to get this right.
Picking up a new 220 marineland and will be installing a glass coast to coast on the back wall. Sump in the basement with a reeflo hammerhead for flow.
Will 1.5" bulkheads and piping be sufficient? Also are there some recommendations on dimensions on where to drill the holes? I know I have seen it in this thread but not having much luck finding it again..
Thanks In advance!
Picking up a new 220 marineland and will be installing a glass coast to coast on the back wall. Sump in the basement with a reeflo hammerhead for flow.
Will 1.5" bulkheads and piping be sufficient? Also are there some recommendations on dimensions on where to drill the holes? I know I have seen it in this thread but not having much luck finding it again..
Thanks In advance!
uncleof6
Active member
You had mentioned a 25"+ drop. 24" drop with 1" bulkheads, with no pipe is ~1669gph, expect 1500gph with 1.5" pipe. @ 36" drop, 1" bulkheads give ~2041gph, expect 1800+ gph, using 1.5" pipe. Bean ran his system up to 2 grand. You are sorta in the gray area, but 1.5" bulkheads @ 24" drop ~3750gph, not being so gray rather overkill. 1.25" bulkheads put you in the mid-range.
The flow is also split with the open channel. (mostly through the siphon) So it is a matter of how high is the drop.
rickztahone
New member
I will admit something, my research in the past was not very thorough, although I thought I was. I didn't go back and read these failsafe threads from the beginning like they were meant to be because they are so overwhelming.
However, I picked a spot to start, 2013 posts and forward and uncle and crew have had to answer the same questions over and over again that you get tired of reading it, lol. I learned a whole lot through doing this type of research and have a spreadsheet where all of this info is stored. However, I wanted to know, is there a consolidated area where this information is currently stored?
For example:
-The approximate inches from the top of the weir to the top of the elbows
-distance between one bulkhead fitting to the next
-where exactly the air line vent needs to be in relation to the emergency drain
-how far to submerge the return lines
etc.
These are questions that get asked over and over but don't seem to be consolidated in one are for someone not to have to ask them. I have read the bean animal main page a lot of times, and these small "mundane" measurements/directions are not there and leads to people asking the same thing because it is scattered all over the place.
It is merely an observation and if this information IS consolidated somewhere, please link me to it and I will be hugely appreciative.
However, I picked a spot to start, 2013 posts and forward and uncle and crew have had to answer the same questions over and over again that you get tired of reading it, lol. I learned a whole lot through doing this type of research and have a spreadsheet where all of this info is stored. However, I wanted to know, is there a consolidated area where this information is currently stored?
For example:
-The approximate inches from the top of the weir to the top of the elbows
-distance between one bulkhead fitting to the next
-where exactly the air line vent needs to be in relation to the emergency drain
-how far to submerge the return lines
etc.
These are questions that get asked over and over but don't seem to be consolidated in one are for someone not to have to ask them. I have read the bean animal main page a lot of times, and these small "mundane" measurements/directions are not there and leads to people asking the same thing because it is scattered all over the place.
It is merely an observation and if this information IS consolidated somewhere, please link me to it and I will be hugely appreciative.
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