Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[sleepydoc]

I've searched a while, although this is a pretty long thread. My question is: if you have an overflow on each end of your aquarium, can you set up two beananimal overflows or would the two siphons be too hard to set up reliably?
I'm getting a custom built 84"t ×30"h x24"w. We were talking of putting 2 holes in each side for drainage to the sump. Should I maybe get three per side? Can a run the system with two holes on one side and the third on the other.
I really like this design and want to use it, but from everything I've read, I'm convinced I need to have overflows on each side(which I don't mind doing). The tank will be built into a wall and views from both front and rear, so the overflows need to be on each ends.
Also any suggestions on what size holes to drill, I'd like to oversize and use gate valves so I'm not limited to flow whatsoever.
Any other tips will be welcomed.
Ps. I will be getting through this whole thread, but it may take a while.

From your description, it sounds like you want to keep overflows off the long walls of the tank for viewing purposes? I would agree, if you had a single 24" weir on one end that would be suboptimal.

Splitting a single Bean system between two sides doesn't work.

I've never heard of anyone doing dual Bean overflows. I suppose if you have 3 holes on each end and to separate weirs you could tune the Bean systems independently. The problem is that the tuning of each bean system is dependent on a relatively constant portion of the flow going over that side of the tank. The open channel alleviates this problem to a fair degree, so it may very well work. The other issue is that the two weirs need to be virtually exactly level with each other.

Try posting your question as a new thread to get suggestions from others who have similarly sized tanks.

 

[sleepydoc]

Hi dear members,

Do you see any problems using this plumping in the system whime the main tank has BeanAnimal drain system? Main tank has 1.5" pipes and BH, other tanks have 1" pipes and BHs. My return pump is a Red Dragon 10m3.

Regards

Your question kind of got lost a while back...

It appears that you are trying to run 3 tanks with 2 sumps (clown tank, main display tank and a fish only tank with a mangrove tanks and 'regular' sump.)

You have indicated a bean animal drain for the main tank, which should work fine as long as the flow to that tank is relatively constant. I have concerns about the other setups, though. you appear to have a passive 1" pipe flowing from the fish only to the mangrove tank, then a passive 1" drain from he mangrove through a chiller to the sump. It may work, but I would be worried about clogs in the 1" pipes. If the heights are as you have indicated, you won't get too much flow through them and they will be prone to collecting detritus, too.

 

[deancoxx]

Wow - several questions going on at once here. I'll try to keep things straight...

The thing that really matters with a weir is the the length. As was commented above, if you have an external box, you can have a very low profile internal weir that drains to the external weir via plain holes or bulkheads. Some people have even cut a groove or notch along the back of their tank to make the rear wall function as the weir with everything external.

Thanks, one more question I have is if I'm going to go with thin internal weir with external box, how would I go about cleaning the internal weir if it was only like 1-2 inches thick? Seems hard to fit fingers in there lol.

Also would I need to put some sort of material over the opening so no fish or snails get in?

 

[sleepydoc]

Thanks, one more question I have is if I'm going to go with thin internal weir with external box, how would I go about cleaning the internal weir if it was only like 1-2 inches thick? Seems hard to fit fingers in there lol.

Also would I need to put some sort of material over the opening so no fish or snails get in?

That's why you don't make it too thin! You only need an inch or so to get your hand in to clean it.

As far as snails go, you can put a screen or strainer over the through holes, put a strainer on the standpipes, or put a lid over the overflow with a lip that hangs down to about ¼" above the water level so any snails that get through are small enought not to cause problems

 

[deancoxx]

That's why you don't make it too thin! You only need an inch or so to get your hand in to clean it.

As far as snails go, you can put a screen or strainer over the through holes, put a strainer on the standpipes, or put a lid over the overflow with a lip that hangs down to about ¼" above the water level so any snails that get through are small enought not to cause problems

I can't quite visualize the highlighted part but for either situation would gutter guard be the optimal material?

 

[sleepydoc]

 

[Kevinsrangers]

Thanks for the replies, I'm going to copy.paste my original question to a new thread like you suggested.
Im really hoping I can come up with a good system.

 

[rickztahone]

I'm not sure if this would help anyone, but I made a video depicting a clog simulation of the Bean Animal overflow. Enjoy:
<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3HK4TBUB4Oo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hi dear members,

Do you see any problems using this plumping in the system whime the main tank has BeanAnimal drain system? Main tank has 1.5" pipes and BH, other tanks have 1" pipes and BHs. My return pump is a Red Dragon 10m3.

Regards

Yes... There are problems

Using a single return pump to feed multiple displays is certainly a valid concept. The problem however (among other things), is that you are splitting that flow into three systems, at least one of them "tuned". You may get it to (ignoring the other issues) balance, but it may also be a... balancing act. There are too many variables to guess at how stable it may, or may not be. If built with sufficient drainage capacity, your only real danger is noise due to the imbalance. If you passive drain systems are too small, then an imbalance could cause them to flood. The emergency pipes you have drawn will certainly help, but any setup like that needs to be FULLY tested in failure scenarios. Often times we build an "emergency" system only to find that in a real failure situation, the system does not behave as expected.

The chiller barrel will become a sediment trap if plumbed passively. It should be inline with the discharge side of the pump, and before any discharge branches. That means it will be a static pressure drop on the entire system, not a branch to cause imbalance.

Passive plumbing between systems will work, but I would (depending on flow) question the 1" piping, especially in consideration to length.

 

[adamwheel]

Questions about filter socks/death traps on siphon for fish:

We created black plastic overflow covers for my internal C2C that bend 90 degrees and only allow a small gap between the weir and the cover (~1/2").

I use filter socks (water is so much clearer) and hate that the siphon is a death trap for my fish. I haven't lost any yet with the covers but assume I still will.

There are low profile strainers that can be purchased but once a fish gets inside the weir, that probably wouldn't help much.

I am considering using the clear netting (also used as my tank cover to keep wrasses in the DT) to create a barrier.

I think Bean used egg crate on his weir at one point but that seems like a nightmare to clean.

Thoughts and thanks,

Adam

 

[sleepydoc]

Questions about filter socks/death traps on siphon for fish:

We created black plastic overflow covers for my internal C2C that bend 90 degrees and only allow a small gap between the weir and the cover (~1/2").

I use filter socks (water is so much clearer) and hate that the siphon is a death trap for my fish. I haven't lost any yet with the covers but assume I still will.

There are low profile strainers that can be purchased but once a fish gets inside the weir, that probably wouldn't help much.

I am considering using the clear netting (also used as my tank cover to keep wrasses in the DT) to create a barrier.

I think Bean used egg crate on his weir at one point but that seems like a nightmare to clean.

Thoughts and thanks,

Adam

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/low-profile-bulkhead-overflow-strainers.html

 

[adamwheel]

Yup. I have those too.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Questions about filter socks/death traps on siphon for fish:

We created black plastic overflow covers for my internal C2C that bend 90 degrees and only allow a small gap between the weir and the cover (~1/2").

I use filter socks (water is so much clearer) and hate that the siphon is a death trap for my fish. I haven't lost any yet with the covers but assume I still will.

There are low profile strainers that can be purchased but once a fish gets inside the weir, that probably wouldn't help much.

I am considering using the clear netting (also used as my tank cover to keep wrasses in the DT) to create a barrier.

I think Bean used egg crate on his weir at one point but that seems like a nightmare to clean.

Thoughts and thanks,

Adam

BLACK covers are the way to go - they keep algae from growing inside the overflow box. The eggcrate was not so bad, but could be if you have high nutrients. Like any other larger surface area exposed to light and water, it can grow algea.

In general, the overflow box is a death trap for fix that are too large to go down the siphon. The current is simply too strong. The covers should prevent this from happening. Fish small enough to go through the siphon always come out the other end just fine.

That brings us to filter socks.... Yes they are great, but I would not run one all the time. I would argue that they take too much macro fauna out of the water column (Pods, brittle stars, snail eggs, whatever). I place them over the discharge plumbing and then use a powerhead to blow the detritus off of the rocks, etc. I wait for the water to clear up, remove the socks and then do it again. Beats the hell out of changing filter socks every day or two.

If that method does not fit your plan, then yes, you can use the mesh. With a bit of thought, a mesh lid for the overflow box could be fashioned. Maybe attached to something like a channel type report cover that would slip over the weir and then be stretched over the top edge of the trim. It would be angled so that any jumper that landed on it would roll back into the display.

Thoughts on covers: My covers are fitted so that there is only a small slot above the weir. I think shrimp would fit through, but that is about it. I don't have shrimp anymore because I have a hawkfish that likes the way they taste.

 

[Mr.Tan]

Alright... After reading the website bean has made that does explaining, etc.. Im going to incorporate this setup onto my tank since i am startinf fresh. Im building a 29g standard tank and going to push it to the max and make it as efficient as possible. I just have one big question:

First- I notice it is mentioned using a coast to coast overflow. Is this entirelt necessary? I was thinking of building a glass internal overflow box (opposed to having it outside of the tank for support reasons) and having it span a total of 10", this allows 3 1" holes drilled which leaves 1.5" between each hole . Will this be sufficient? I dont want a TON of gph flow, since its a small tank and im only going to use a 20 gallon tank as a sump.... Should i do smaller piping? Or is the bean animal overflow just overkill to begin with?

If i am able to do this correctly, the total width of the box im thinking 4" from back of tank to front of overflow box... Is this too much? Too little? .... Im trying to figure this out on my own as much as possible but im getting confused.


Basically the overflow i mocked up from cardboard is 10" wide, 4" tall and 4" deep from back of tank to front of overflow

 

[adamwheel]

BLACK covers are the way to go - they keep algae from growing inside the overflow box. The eggcrate was not so bad, but could be if you have high nutrients. Like any other larger surface area exposed to light and water, it can grow algea.

In general, the overflow box is a death trap for fix that are too large to go down the siphon. The current is simply too strong. The covers should prevent this from happening. Fish small enough to go through the siphon always come out the other end just fine.

That brings us to filter socks.... Yes they are great, but I would not run one all the time. I would argue that they take too much macro fauna out of the water column (Pods, brittle stars, snail eggs, whatever). I place them over the discharge plumbing and then use a powerhead to blow the detritus off of the rocks, etc. I wait for the water to clear up, remove the socks and then do it again. Beats the hell out of changing filter socks every day or two.

If that method does not fit your plan, then yes, you can use the mesh. With a bit of thought, a mesh lid for the overflow box could be fashioned. Maybe attached to something like a channel type report cover that would slip over the weir and then be stretched over the top edge of the trim. It would be angled so that any jumper that landed on it would roll back into the display.

Thoughts on covers: My covers are fitted so that there is only a small slot above the weir. I think shrimp would fit through, but that is about it. I don't have shrimp anymore because I have a hawkfish that likes the way they taste.

Thanks for the reply.

At this point, wrasses and chromis are the only fish that can sneak through my black ABS covers. Given all the QT craziness we go through, losing healthy fish this way can be frustrating.

I'll try using the socks less (tall order).

Cheers and thank you for all the help the past few years,

Adam

 

[chatyak]

Having some trouble determining the best size for an external overflow box.

Tank is being custom made. 98% certain it will be peninsula overflow.

72" L x 26" W x 23" H

Overflow about 22" slot on one side, leading to external box. Just not sure what the width and height of the external box should be.

1) Just standard sizing, so long as the plumbing is done correctly? Has it been determined that a certain size works better?

2) I see some say 1" drains and some with 1.5"...

3) I also just came across a post that mentioned upgrading the open channel to 1.25", to reduce the air/gurgle noise. Is this the elbow fitting or the entire drain at 1.25?

When I made my own in years past, I just made it big enough to work with and to get plumbing in. However, having a deeper overflow would allow for the open channel to be physically higher than the siphon, as opposed to the same height with an airline tube attached to the top - correct?

I read that there needs to be a certain amount of space if the open channel is higher than the siphon, so the siphon has time to purge itself of air before the water level recedes again... otherwise it's a gurgling mess.

So...

4) Do we know how much "higher" the open channel would have to be, if it's physically placed above the full siphon?

 

[chatyak]

Having some trouble determining the best size for an external overflow box.

Tank is being custom made. 98% certain it will be peninsula overflow.

72" L x 26" W x 23" H

Overflow about 22" slot on one side, leading to external box. Just not sure what the width and height of the external box should be.

1) Just standard sizing, so long as the plumbing is done correctly? Has it been determined that a certain size works better?

2) I see some say 1" drains and some with 1.5"...

3) I also just came across a post that mentioned upgrading the open channel to 1.25", to reduce the air/gurgle noise. Is this the elbow fitting or the entire drain at 1.25?

When I made my own in years past, I just made it big enough to work with and to get plumbing in. However, having a deeper overflow would allow for the open channel to be physically higher than the siphon, as opposed to the same height with an airline tube attached to the top - correct?

I read that there needs to be a certain amount of space if the open channel is higher than the siphon, so the siphon has time to purge itself of air before the water level recedes again... otherwise it's a gurgling mess.

So...

4) Do we know how much "higher" the open channel would have to be, if it's physically placed above the full siphon?

I've read more now that I have time. Here are my thoughts. Please verify.

1) Overflow size of function before asthetics. Enough room to work with. Deeper/taller may be nicer as more height variation between open/full siphons. Helps give time for flush.

2) Anything over 1500 GPH is best served with 1.5" bulkheads and 1.5" pipe. Original 1.5" pipe with smaller bulkhead was just to make water trickles quiter and due to build up/already drilled holes.

3) Above


So now I have two questions. In the original design it goes full siphon --> open channel trickle --> emergency --> airline on open submerges for full siphon.

1) Is there anything wrong with having the emergency drain kick in AFTER the airline tube is submerged on open siphon? So instead of airline tubing last, it is emergency last?

2) How much vertical height should there be between open channel air opening and main siphon, so that it has time to self flush? My overflow may use height difference to achieve this with a hole drilled in pvc elbow., so want to be sure.

 

[Dandaleh]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Hi all so I have now finalised the spec of my new tank and after taking uncle66 advice I am going for 2.5inch pipe (75mm). Here you will see 90mm bulkheads but they are different as 75mm pipe slots into them as opposed over them if that makes sense. I have drilled another hole at the other end of the overflow box just in case I need it which I don't think I will . The weir box is 300mm high. Be really grateful for any feedback before I order this .

 

[braaap]

Silent and failsafe. Herbie.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Silent and failsafe. Herbie.

Uh oh. I feel an internet fight a comin.