Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Just now getting back to look for an answer to my question. I apologize if a stirred up something.
The gist of my point is, I took an existing tank that was operating with 1 durso drain on the 1" bulkhead that was not quiet enough for my liking. Instead of using the 3/4" bulkhead for the return, I used it for a full siphon drain. This takes 99-100% of the water and is completely silent/works great. If it plugs, for any reason, the existing durso will take 100% of the flow my return can provide back to the tank. It will not be as quiet as the silent siphon drain, but it would also need to get plugged to cause a problem/flood. I see no reason to add a third drain. Especially considering that the tank ran for over a year with only the Durso (no backup drain). My modification actually added an additonal layer of protection.
My whole point is: If the overflow/open/2nd drain is sized to handle 100% of your return pump flow, there seems to be no reason to have the 3rd drain. If it cannot handle 100% of your return pump flow, then a 3rd drain is a good idea.
Does this make sense?
I am still setting up this tank, so I can't speak from experience.
The gist of my point is, I took an existing tank that was operating with 1 durso drain on the 1" bulkhead that was not quiet enough for my liking. Instead of using the 3/4" bulkhead for the return, I used it for a full siphon drain. This takes 99-100% of the water and is completely silent/works great. If it plugs, for any reason, the existing durso will take 100% of the flow my return can provide back to the tank. It will not be as quiet as the silent siphon drain, but it would also need to get plugged to cause a problem/flood. I see no reason to add a third drain. Especially considering that the tank ran for over a year with only the Durso (no backup drain). My modification actually added an additonal layer of protection.
My whole point is: If the overflow/open/2nd drain is sized to handle 100% of your return pump flow, there seems to be no reason to have the 3rd drain. If it cannot handle 100% of your return pump flow, then a 3rd drain is a good idea.
Does this make sense?
I am still setting up this tank, so I can't speak from experience.
Ok, after reading all 76 pages of this at least once I think I have a question that hasn't been asked yet. haha.
I have a 75 gallon that has a sump next to it instead of under it. I am planning an external overflow box that will drop right into the sump, which means I'll have 2 variations on the main plan.
1)There will only be 8 inches or so for the water to drop from the bottom of the external overflow box to the submerged bottom of the pipe in the sump.
2)My Calfo will only be 18" long (since it's a peninsula setup with filter/cabinet at the end). Is that going to work? If no, what sort of problems am I going to have?
Thanks Bean and all for this thread!
Zach
I have a 75 gallon that has a sump next to it instead of under it. I am planning an external overflow box that will drop right into the sump, which means I'll have 2 variations on the main plan.
1)There will only be 8 inches or so for the water to drop from the bottom of the external overflow box to the submerged bottom of the pipe in the sump.
2)My Calfo will only be 18" long (since it's a peninsula setup with filter/cabinet at the end). Is that going to work? If no, what sort of problems am I going to have?
Thanks Bean and all for this thread!
Zach
I will never be bored by the seemingly limitless variations ( and perversions 
) of plumbing that we as hobbyists can dream up!
As long as you have gravity feed to the sump, I cannot imagine why it would not work.
But - I must say that I have never seen an over the tank style overflow that worked long term without some degree of mucking around with it.....Power failures,algae or sponge growth, and any number of other things that can change the flow in the over flow tube(s) will require some "keeping an eye on it" to prevent problems.
No way for you to drain down enought to drill holes high in the tank back instead?
T
) of plumbing that we as hobbyists can dream up!As long as you have gravity feed to the sump, I cannot imagine why it would not work.
But - I must say that I have never seen an over the tank style overflow that worked long term without some degree of mucking around with it.....Power failures,algae or sponge growth, and any number of other things that can change the flow in the over flow tube(s) will require some "keeping an eye on it" to prevent problems.
No way for you to drain down enought to drill holes high in the tank back instead?
T
Yes, sorry I was unclear there. The overflow box will be near the top of the tank, but with the pipes leaving the bottom of the external overflow they will only have about 8 inches or so before they hit the water level in the sump. I was just concernced it would be too short a distance to allow the siphon to function properly.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Your siphon rate will be decreased due to the lack of head.
I.E. the further a siphon drops, the more gravity has an efect on its rate.
I will soon be posting a formula to estimate flow rates for different size pipes at different siphon heads.
I.E. the further a siphon drops, the more gravity has an efect on its rate.
I will soon be posting a formula to estimate flow rates for different size pipes at different siphon heads.
stealle
Premium Member
@Molebrain - (I'm not as experienced as Bean and many others here on RC, but I think I can take this one) - the length of the Calflo will provide optimal surface skimming when "wall to wall" so if 18" is as long as you can get on your peninsula style tank then that should be as good as you can get for surface skimming. Now the only question is can 18" handle the flow coming from your return? In order to find out you can use the reef central "overflow size calculator" here: http://reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php
The way I see it. An 18" overflow can handle up to 1200gph. So as long as your return pump is <1200 gph you should be fine.
stealle
Premium Member
As for the first part of your question. I'm also interested in the answer since I am planning a system with a fish room and I would rather my sump not be located on the floor. I'd like to elevate the sump to a more workable height as long as it doesn't cause problems with the overflow system.
stealle
Premium Member
Pardon me for editing your most excellent work Bean. But I was just wondering???...
I am just wondering if this would accomplish the same thing. Just drilling a hole where I put the arrow, thread it, and teflon tape/screw in a little "tit" of some sort. So if the water level raises above the tit the hole will be closed and a full siphon will start.
Perhaps this has already been asked. I read the first 15 pages or so of the first thread and the last several pages of this thread since it has been split. I just can't read the entire thread at this point.
Hey BeanAnimal - This is an outstanding design. Thanks for sharing. I am in the planninng stage of a ~150 gallon with an external overflow. I was all set to use the "Herbie method" (Herbie if you are reading - thanks to you as well for sharing your ideas), however, I think this method will allow for a more shallow external overflow box and possibly require less frequent adjusting of the gate/ball valve (more set it and forget it).
I am considering an above tank refugium. I think the refugium might be less than 500 gph. Do you think the Bean Animal method would work for that low of flow? I might still use the Herbie method for the refugium????
I am just wondering if this would accomplish the same thing. Just drilling a hole where I put the arrow, thread it, and teflon tape/screw in a little "tit" of some sort. So if the water level raises above the tit the hole will be closed and a full siphon will start.
Perhaps this has already been asked. I read the first 15 pages or so of the first thread and the last several pages of this thread since it has been split. I just can't read the entire thread at this point.
Hey BeanAnimal - This is an outstanding design. Thanks for sharing. I am in the planninng stage of a ~150 gallon with an external overflow. I was all set to use the "Herbie method" (Herbie if you are reading - thanks to you as well for sharing your ideas), however, I think this method will allow for a more shallow external overflow box and possibly require less frequent adjusting of the gate/ball valve (more set it and forget it).
I am considering an above tank refugium. I think the refugium might be less than 500 gph. Do you think the Bean Animal method would work for that low of flow? I might still use the Herbie method for the refugium????
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
You will have much better luck (quiet and stable operation) with placing the air admittance tube AFTER the wier, in a wide section of pipe that is not normally submerged (I.E. the top of the TEE).
The system will work on an above tank refugium as well.
The system will work on an above tank refugium as well.
Snakebyt
New member
from what i learned in this thread, i made a modified version since my tank only had 2 holes drilled.
I have one for overflow and one for emergency, so far its working great and no bubbles in the sump.
Does anyone see any problems with this set up this way?
thank you so much for the info in this thread
I have one for overflow and one for emergency, so far its working great and no bubbles in the sump.
Does anyone see any problems with this set up this way?
thank you so much for the info in this thread
Last edited by a moderator:
stealle
Premium Member
Snakebyt - the only thing I see wrong with your design is that it is not as safe as having three drain lines.
Do you have a constant trickle of some water going through your "emergency" drain? If so then it could potentially get clogged with something and cause a flood. The idea of the emergency drain is that water never enters unless the first two drains fail (I think water does also enter the emergency drain briefly when the return pump is first powered on).
Basically it looks like you don't really have an emergency drain. You just have the first two drains of the design only one of the drains has an elbow turned up.
If it's working for you great, but I think you are running a bit of a risk.
Do you have a constant trickle of some water going through your "emergency" drain? If so then it could potentially get clogged with something and cause a flood. The idea of the emergency drain is that water never enters unless the first two drains fail (I think water does also enter the emergency drain briefly when the return pump is first powered on).
Basically it looks like you don't really have an emergency drain. You just have the first two drains of the design only one of the drains has an elbow turned up.
If it's working for you great, but I think you are running a bit of a risk.
Snakebyt
New member
the one that is upturned is not taking any water under normal operation it is about1/4 to 3/8 above the water line so it is only used if the water rises for some reason
Also another question about this design, especially for use on my tank. I am wanting to replace the ball valves with gate valves for more precise adjustment if needed. Anyone see any problems with using gate valves
Also another question about this design, especially for use on my tank. I am wanting to replace the ball valves with gate valves for more precise adjustment if needed. Anyone see any problems with using gate valves
Reefer2727
New member
Hi All,
I finally got some water in my tank and gave my new 'Bean Animal' drain system a run.
It seems as though my open channel drain catches siphon before my siphon drain and Im not sure why.
I have a really hard time trying to get my valved line to get a siphon going. Seems like there is always air in there.
The standpipes for the drains are about 2" under the water level in the sump. Is this a problem? Any suggestions? How can I fix this?
Also, I have a 3/8" threaded John Guest fitting on the open channel with some hose that is around 3 feet long. Could this be causing an issue?
A couple things I thought I might try are:
1) Drill small holes in the bottom of the siphon drain to help get air out quicker.
2) I could cut the bottom of the siphon drain pipe off and put a 45 degree fitting so it is open to the air.
Any other advice??
I finally got some water in my tank and gave my new 'Bean Animal' drain system a run.
It seems as though my open channel drain catches siphon before my siphon drain and Im not sure why.
I have a really hard time trying to get my valved line to get a siphon going. Seems like there is always air in there.
The standpipes for the drains are about 2" under the water level in the sump. Is this a problem? Any suggestions? How can I fix this?
Also, I have a 3/8" threaded John Guest fitting on the open channel with some hose that is around 3 feet long. Could this be causing an issue?
A couple things I thought I might try are:
1) Drill small holes in the bottom of the siphon drain to help get air out quicker.
2) I could cut the bottom of the siphon drain pipe off and put a 45 degree fitting so it is open to the air.
Any other advice??
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