Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Reefer2727]

Jim,

I will put the air line in the overflow box at the appropriate level. Totally makes sense considering that it will turn it into a full siphon. And thanks so much for all your help along the way.

 

[stealle]

Looks great. The only thing I would suggest is replacing your ball valve with a gate valve on your full siphon channel. Since you are using smaller tubing than recommended, you have less margin of error when dialing in your flow. If you find yourself having to adjust your flow on a daily basis, a gate valve might reduce the frequency of how often you have to make adjustments.

 

[BeanAnimal]

They system should not need adjusted once it is set

 

[Reefer2727]

System is set and does not seem to need adjusting. The only adjusting I am doing is trying to figure out how much flow I want to give the fuge. Its hard to tell when there is nothing in it.

I could see how a gate valve would be better for tweaking. I considered one but found them so big and bulky. My tank is backed up to a wall so I wanted to keep stuff as small as possible. I had also heard somewhere that a gate valve is more for horizontal piping rather than vertical. Had also heard that they are more likely to leak than a ball valve. The true union ball valve works great. The fact that I am feeding the fuge helps a bit with the dialing in of the system also. Each time I tweak I twist both ball valves accordingly. (Fuge and Tank return valves). This gives me double tweaking power.

The system seems great. Power outage scenario is excellent and I have lots of room in the sump. System also starts up great on its own. Granted it sounds like a hot tub when it gets fired up. But she is silent within a minute.

My sweet spot is basically as much flow as I can returning to the main tank without causing microbubbles. The fuge takes the rest. Which is a good amont of flow. Once I get some cheato in there I will have a better idea.

This is still freshwater testing mode.

Happy so far!

Again, thanks for all the help!

 

[stealle]

Reefer2727 - BTW, love the all grey PVC look. I want to do it that way too. I've looked everywhere for grey 1.5" sanitary tees. I can't find them anywhere. I'll probably just go with regular ones since it seems to be working out for others who went that way.

 

[stealle]

It's nice this system has the threaded caps on top of each channel so you can clean out the system. My previous tank was an all-in-one therefore no plumbing to speak of, hence I'm doing my homework now. This is semi off topic, but I was just wondering:

1. How often do you have to clean out plumbing (is there routine maintenance or just clean when there is a problem)?
2. Do you just run a long bristle brush down the pipes and flush them out?
3. Are there concerns about starting a mini cycle by disturbing the slime coating on the inside of the pipes?

 

[teesquare]

Steve:
Gee with all the advice you were giving - I thought you had installed this system before! Looks like you have studued the thread well. Kudos!
This is a pic, and link of what you want. I have used thess in ABS , and PVC - both work, just paya ttention to your glue proceedures.
http://doitbest.com/PVC+tee-Genova-model-71115-doitbest-sku-432044.dib
You "should" be able to find these fittings in 1-1/4" to 2" at Home Depot and Lowe's in the U.S....Tho - I have been told they are not common on the west coast. Maybe they don't do "sanitary" on the left coast these days...HAHAHA!!!!
PS - Don't waste your money on a gate valve. This system functions differently than any of the older style ones out there. You will not need it, nor will it make it any easier to dial in. I know that sounds strange....But I have tried it both ways.
T

 

[stealle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15662305#post15662305 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Steve:
Gee with all the advice you were giving - I thought you had installed this system before! Looks like you have studued the thread well. Kudos!

Yes, I have studied it and understand it very well. I have built and troubleshooted this system many times (in my head). I am in the planning stages for a ~150-200 gallon system and want to get it just right the first time.

This is a pic, and link of what you want. I have used thess in ABS , and PVC - both work, just paya ttention to your glue proceedures.
http://doitbest.com/PVC+tee-Genova-model-71115-doitbest-sku-432044.dib
You "should" be able to find these fittings in 1-1/4" to 2" at Home Depot and Lowe's in the U.S....Tho - I have been told they are not common on the west coast. Maybe they don't do "sanitary" on the left coast these days...HAHAHA!!!![/B]

I live in central Illinois. I can find anything I want in white locally. I can find black ABS sanitary tees online. I can find everything in grey PVC at usplastics.com except the grey sanitary tees. It's just an all grey look that I'm going for... no biggie. I could just go with everything grey below the bulkheads and black above the bulkheads. Hmmm

PS - Don't waste your money on a gate valve. This system functions differently than any of the older style ones out there. You will not need it, nor will it make it any easier to dial in. I know that sounds strange....But I have tried it both ways.
T [/B]

Thanks for the info. Maybe I got hung up on the gate valve from the Herbie overflow thread. It seems most decided that was the way to go with that system.

Oh, also. I read this guys amazing build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1482007&perpage=25&pagenumb

He used the Bean system. It think he mentioned once that he would have used a gate valve if he did it over again. Maybe I should shoot him a PM to clarify.

 

[teesquare]

I think the gate valve makes us feel more in control, but it really does not matter enough *IF* you install BeAn's system as outlined. Any variation - "your mileage may vary" But - if you do use a gate valve, put a ball valve immediately before or after it, for convenience. After all - what you are attempting to do with the gate valve is to use it as a metering valve.......And it is not possible to shut off the flow quickly with one. Just in case.

I recently plumbed a system with the black ABS in the visibla portions of the plumbing, and like the look, tho I think the ABS will fade to grey where it igets much light from the MH fixture above.

We all plumb these things in our heads first, and then on paper. But be prepared for a surprise occasionally. I have a great imagination - it just sometimes is not on parallel with the "real world".....
T

 

[Reefer2727]

SW Steve,

I like the grey too. I just used normal tees and it runs great!

Good luck.

 

[JTL]

I am going to use 1 1/4" throughout except for the 1" bulkheads. Anyone see any problems?

 

[gem]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15662305#post15662305 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Steve:
http://doitbest.com/PVC+tee-Genova-model-71115-doitbest-sku-432044.dib
You "should" be able to find these fittings in 1-1/4" to 2" at Home Depot and Lowe's in the U.S....Tho - I have been told they are not common on the west coast. Maybe they don't do "sanitary" on the left coast these days...HAHAHA!!!!T

I had a hard time finding these as well. Was hoping for the white pvc, but the black ABS is readily available on the "left coast" at both Home Depot and Lowe's. Also Ace Hardware stores.

 

[uncleof6]

Gate valve vs. ball valve is a healthy little debate that will probably go on forever. The general guideline on valve usage has always been gate valve = flow control (metering,) and ball valve = on/off. Another loose guideline is that you do not need or want a valve in a drain line, unless it is a full siphon. Why only in a full siphon? To "meter" the flow. Will a ball valve work for metering? Yes, however the gate valve will fine tune where the ball valve gives a gross setting. It may be a bit early in the morning, (looks at the clock) but I am having trouble imagining a scenario in which there would be an advantage to shutting down the full siphon quickly. A leak below the valve being about the only one, and the odds are ~ 33% that you would even be around or aware of the leak, to shut the valve off-- in time to save your floor, and return pump. Do one or the other as you wish, but both? Naaaaawwww.... anyway on with the show.

Jim

 

[teesquare]

Hey Jim!
I thought "overkill" - by definition IS what plumbing tanks is all about
I am in agreement with you that "either or" is good enough most of the time .....

But,depending how the returns from the sump are set up, there can be a benefit to the ball valve and gate valve method. Example:
If your returns are thru the back of the tank, and near the top but not AT the top ( too many distracting reasons as to WHY for this thread ) and you want to do some maint. requiring you to shut off the main pump, it speeds up the process of waiting for it to re-fill the tank. Or if there are corals that will be out of the water for an extended period because of said maint., and being blasted by air or MH lights....it just helps keeep them more "comfortable" to have them submerged vs out in the air.

And it adds nicely to the "Rube Goldberg" effect as well!:rollface:
T

 

[stealle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15663253#post15663253 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Hey Jim!
I thought "overkill" - by definition IS what plumbing tanks is all about
I am in agreement with you that "either or" is good enough most of the time .....

But,depending how the returns from the sump are set up, there can be a benefit to the ball valve and gate valve method. Example:
If your returns are thru the back of the tank, and near the top but not AT the top ( too many distracting reasons as to WHY for this thread ) and you want to do some maint. requiring you to shut off the main pump, it speeds up the process of waiting for it to re-fill the tank. Or if there are corals that will be out of the water for an extended period because of said maint., and being blasted by air or MH lights....it just helps keeep them more "comfortable" to have them submerged vs out in the air.

And it adds nicely to the "Rube Goldberg" effect as well!:rollface:
T

Yeah he was talking about drains having gate valves not returns. As far as returns go, in your application, wouldn't it be a good idea to put a check valve above each ball valve to prevent backward flow?

 

[chuck_w]

Good ideas guys.

 

[teesquare]

Steve:
Repeat after me- NO,NO,NO CHECK VALVES......
They can, will and *DO* fail. And NEVER when you are around HA!
The described scenario in my post is a real one. The sump will not overflow - but there is 1/4" of "safety margin" - if you can call it that.
Oh -- and, I was also talking about drains/gate valves, not returns.
Look - there a hundred ways to plumb a tank, and what I like and prefer does not mean that "it's the only way" to do it.
One of the great things about RC and other forums like it is the open discussion about methods that work for folks, and those that don't.
Just like the question of which brand of salt is best. You will get as many answers as there are brands of salts - pro and con.
The truth is - any one works as long as you work within it's limitations. Plumbing is the same way.
That is why I LOVE BeAn's overflow concept. It combines all that we know with a couple of new twists, and is thus far - the most idiot proof ( I resemble that remark) I have ever used.
T

 

[stealle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15663872#post15663872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare
Steve:
Repeat after me- NO,NO,NO CHECK VALVES......

OK..... "NO,NO,NO CHECK VALVES......":lol:
I have heard about check valves failing. However, I gues I just figured that having a check valve that might work (maybe 50% of the time) is better than not having a check valve (which will work 0% of the time). I figured they are just not something to rely upon but might offer some protection in your absence.

Just like the question of which brand of salt is best. You will get as many answers as there are brands of salts - pro and con.

So what brand of salt do you use? Just kidding don't even answer that.

However, can you (or somebody) answer my question at the top of this page about plumbing maintenance?

 

[scottsr]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14079444#post14079444 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oldsaltman
Bean, I designed my overflow just as you described it you your first post. I have a full 4" x 6" box with three 1 1/2" outlets. I just finished gluing my baffles in place. Is there anything about the final design that I should change? I just want to make sure I will have an overflow that works like described.

Where is the first post? Does the first post have a description of the calfo overflow. I want to try this with a 75g tank that I have, any help finding the link or instructions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Scott

 

[uncleof6]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585&perpage=25&pagenumber=1