Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

BeanAnimal said:
My design does not have any baffles inside the box. There are a few people who have utilized supports from front to back to help maintain the integrity of a very long overflow box. The need will depend on the length of the box and the material used to build it :)
Click to expand...

Thankyou for clearing that up for me I will post my successes when they are achived.
 
Sorry about my last post it was confusing. Still tring to figure out how to use multiple quotes in a reply. I have some more questions. In red...

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal :
It may work, but it depends on how far below the surface you can keep it. If it sucks any air it will be unstable. How deep is the overflow box? It sounds like it is the height of the tank. If that is the case you should be able to get the full suphine pipe far enough below the surface to work just fine. I would opt for using no strainer on it in that case.

The overflow box it the height of the tank. The other holes in the tank are all coming out of the bottom of the tank. I checked and there is enough room to use 2 one inch 90s on the full siphon. Is there a benefit to doing this over the lowered open standpipe?

Originally Posted by BeanAnimal :
It would be best to continue the 1.25" to the basement for the open channel if you can. The larger the pipe the more flow it can handle silently.

Yes I can run it down to the sump. I drilled holes just big enough to fit the 1 1/4 inch pipes through. So I will run the bigger pipe just for the open channel. will I be ok still using the one inch bulkhead?
 
The siphon standpipe should work the same either way. It just depends on how much water you can get over top of it. An open top pipe has more of a chance of creating a vortex and sucking in air. (think about your bathtup drain).

The 1" bulkhead for the open channel should be ok, but a 1.25 would certainly be better :) That all depends on the proposed flow too... That said, I am not sure I would bother drilling to accommodate the 1.25" if the 1" is already there.
 
BeanAnimal said:
The siphon standpipe should work the same either way. It just depends on how much water you can get over top of it. An open top pipe has more of a chance of creating a vortex and sucking in air. (think about your bathtup drain).

The 1" bulkhead for the open channel should be ok, but a 1.25 would certainly be better :) That all depends on the proposed flow too... That said, I am not sure I would bother drilling to accommodate the 1.25" if the 1" is already there.
Click to expand...
I think I will use the two 90s for the full siphon. How much of a drop from the weir should I allow?
The proposed flow is going to be about 900 gph. I am going to using new refflo snapper 18 at about 9 to 10 feet of head.
Thanks again.
 
Size of hole for 1/4 John Guest and which tap bit should I use for threading hole?

Size of hole for 1/4 John Guest and which tap bit should I use for threading hole?

Hi,

What size of the hole should I make for the 1/4 MPTF John Guest fitting and also what size tap bit should I use to thread it?

Thanks
 
Beananimal, I built my overflow box and plumbing just as your recommended and the system is silent with good flow. The only concern I have is that the siphon standpipe has no flow either at startup or during the run phase. Should I convert it to a second open channel? My hardware is a 125 gallon display with the sump on one side with the sump water level 8" below the display. The pipes are 1 1/4", all valves are wide open & the pump is putting out around 900 gph (Quiet one 4000). BTW it takes about 3 minutes before the system reaches equilibrium at start-up. [If it helps, the overflow box is 4 1/4" wide x 4" deep x 23 1/4" long]
Thanks for all your time and technical direction. Jim
 
jimnrose said:
Beananimal, I built my overflow box and plumbing just as your recommended and the system is silent with good flow. The only concern I have is that the siphon standpipe has no flow either at startup or during the run phase.
Click to expand...
That means that you have the output submerged too far into the sump and/or the siphons standpipe is higher than the open channel.


Should I convert it to a second open channel?
Click to expand...
That would be a standard durso setup. If it is quiet enough and stable enough for you then sure...

My hardware is a 125 gallon display with the sump on one side with the sump water level 8" below the display.
Click to expand...
Below the display surface or below the display itself? What is the total distance from the water level IN the overflow box to the surface of the water in the sump? That is the "head" on the siphon.

The pipes are 1 1/4", all valves are wide open & the pump is putting out around 900 gph (Quiet one 4000). BTW it takes about 3 minutes before the system reaches equilibrium at start-up.
Click to expand...
I am not sure I understand? If there is no flow going through the siphon standpipe, then there is no equilibirum to wait for. Open channel flow is open channel flow.

What makes you sure that there is no flow in the siphon standpipe?

Are the standpipes through the back of the overflow or the bottom?
How far is the siphon standpipe submerged in the sump during normal operation?
 
Many of these done on a external overflow? I have a Herbie now, but will do yours on my next tank. Not sure about a Calfo overflow, or a external. Anything I should consider?
 
Yes, plenty of folks are using the system on an external box.

Internal or external... there are pros and cons to each. Without knowing what your plans are, it would be hard to give advice. They both work the same with regard to function. The internal takes up some space in the tank but is easier to implement. The external takes a bit more thought and work, again depending on the type of tank and other parameters.
 
1/4 tap? Really?

1/4 tap? Really?

Hi Bean,

I think I may have purchased the wrong John Guest fitting. On the bag it mentions 1/4" x 3/8 nptf? Is that the right fitting? If so, I don't get why I need a 1/4 tap..shouldn't it be bigger than 1/4? I'm confused...please help.:sad1:
 
Hey Bean, ok the inside diameter hole measures 3/8" and the outside diameter hole including the thread is 5/8". Shouldn't the drill size be 5/8" and tap bigger than the hole size? I need to screw the fitting inside the hole right?
 
yoki32 said:
Hey Bean, ok the inside diameter hole measures 3/8" and the outside diameter hole including the thread is 5/8". Shouldn't the drill size be 5/8" and tap bigger than the hole size? I need to screw the fitting inside the hole right?
Click to expand...

You need a 3/8 NPT tap for a 3/8 pipe thread. 3/8 NPT pipe has an O.D. of 0.675". (just over 5/8 of an inch). The 9/16" drill will leave enough material for the tap to cut threads into.
 
ok i'll try that. I'll drill the PVC cap with a 9/16" drill bit and tap it with 3/8" and then will try to screw the JG fitting in the hole. Thanks Bean, appreciate your patience and all of your help :)
 
BeanAnimal said:
Yes, plenty of folks are using the system on an external box.

Internal or external... there are pros and cons to each. Without knowing what your plans are, it would be hard to give advice. They both work the same with regard to function. The internal takes up some space in the tank but is easier to implement. The external takes a bit more thought and work, again depending on the type of tank and other parameters.
Click to expand...

No sweat. Thanks. I'll do more research. Don't really know what way I'll go at this point either.
 
Beananimal, boy you have patience. Here goes:
the bulkheads are coming out the back (on the same horizontal plane).

the siphon & emergency caps are at the same height (6" above the tee cl) but the open channel is 4 3/4" above).

the siphon standpipe is 7" below the sump water level.

The o/f box is 1 3/4"below the display level and the inlet section of the sump is 8" below the display but the return section is 11" to 12" below the display. The sump pump has a 11" to 12" head. The drop from the o/f box to the inlet section of the sump is 6 3/4".

I'm nervous not having any flow thru the siphon standpipe. The system is running quiet and keeps up with the pump but not having two operating standpipes is unreliable.

P.S.I tried filling the siphon end cap with plumbersputty to bring the cavity down to the open channel cap but that didn'tresult in any change in flow.

I'll keep at it & would like any ideas you may have. Jim
 
Thoughts:

  1. The siphon standpipe is submerged way too far. It should only be 1" or so below the water surface during normal operation.
  2. The cap on the siphon standpipe MUST be air-tight. I prefer to use a threaded cap with a dab of teflon paste.
What makes you sure the siphon standpipe is running dry? The level of the "caps" does not make a difference :)
 
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